General Discussion 2017-18

[transplant]

We might not see the Bulls in the same light but I'm glad we see our beloved Bears in the same light!

Yeah, damned interesting. In the end, we want to see our teams win.

[transplant]

A lot has been written locally in the past couple weeks about how Fox and Pace have the same poor W-L records and if Fox has to go, why does Pace get to stay. To bloodthirsty fans, I suppose this makes sense.

I've never much understood bloodthirsty fans.

I'll be shocked if Fox doesn't get fired (technically, since I believe his contract ends after this season, he won't be fired, but rather simply not rehired). When I judge head coaches, I ask, "how well did your team play with the talent you were given?" Applied to Fox, I'd say that he did about as well as could be expected. QB, by far the most important position in NFL football, was unquestionably a weakness. Depending on which stat you use, Trubisky and Glennon were either bottom-10% or dead last among starting signal-callers (BTW, these two were very close statistically). The wide receiving corps that looked very iffy coming into the season, got only one game out of their top-two wideouts (Meredith and White) due to injury. They were also thin at TE and got only 8 games out of their only proven player at this position (Zach Miller). Their best offensive lineman (Long) was never right and their lack of depth was exposed.

On defense, (arguably) their best linebacker (Freeman) played in only one game due to suspension and injury. Their next best linebacker (Trevathan) also missed significant time. Their two pass-rush specialists (Floyd and McPhee) were unavailable much of the season.

Oh, and the Bears placekickers are the worst in the league.

I admire Fox for not going to the mic and shouting, "What the **** do you expect?" So yeah, Fox will be gone, but with good health, this team was 7-9 at best. With the health he got, 4-10 is hardly an outrage.

As for Pace, he had to rebuild from virtually nothing when he took over the franchise. When you start a NFL team from square 1, it takes a long time to build quality depth so you have to hope you stay healthy. The Bears very definitely have not and this has killed them.

Probably the two decisions that Pace gets slammed for the most are the Kevin White draft pick and the Glennon free agent signing. In 3 seasons, White has played a total of 5 games due to completely unforeseeable and unrelated injuries...damned bad luck. Revisionist history say that Pace paid way too much for Glennon, essentially bidding against himself. Actually, the Bucs made Glennon an offer that would have made him the highest-paid backup in NFL history. The base salary was reported to be 8mil/year (I couldn't find anything on how much was guaranteed, but I recall that it was around $13mil). Pace guaranteed him $18mil. Most important, it's only a one-year burn for the Bears, and since they didn't know that they were going to get Trubisky, Pace had to do something bold at QB at the time. Sure, Pace overrated Glennon, but the truth was that Glennon was the only young potential starter available in that free agent class.

I'm more upset with Pace for his mishandling of the PK position and the $6mil he paid to Marcus Wheaton (truly a waste of a roster spot).

Anyway, Pace stays and that's OK with me. He seems to be a young and functional NFL exec. Firing him would be reckless and would likely make it very hard to attract a replacement.

Net, to the bloodthirsty, I'm afraid you're going to need to satisfy yourselves with Fox and only Fox. Bon apetit.

[City of Trees]

Net, to the bloodthirsty, I'm afraid you're going to need to satisfy yourselves with Fox and only Fox. Bon apetit.

Indeed


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[Axxo]

Heres an interesting perspective
http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/02/grading-ryan-pace-2015-nfl-draft-littered-with-failed-picks/amp/

[Susan]

Heres an interesting perspective
http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/02/grading-ryan-pace-2015-nfl-draft-littered-with-failed-picks/amp/

Pace didn't have his scouts in place for this draft.

[Axxo]

Heres an interesting perspective
http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/02/grading-ryan-pace-2015-nfl-draft-littered-with-failed-picks/amp/

Pace didn't have his scouts in place for this draft.

Idk what resources he had or not at that time, but this write up seems to support the general view around the league Bears haven't made much progress on the talent acquisition front over the last three or so years.

[Susan]

Heres an interesting perspective
http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/02/grading-ryan-pace-2015-nfl-draft-littered-with-failed-picks/amp/

Pace didn't have his scouts in place for this draft.

Idk what resources he had or not at that time, but this write up seems to support the general view around the league Bears haven't made much progress on the talent acquisition front over the last three or so years.

How do you feel about the past two drafts?

[City of Trees]

Heres an interesting perspective
http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/02/grading-ryan-pace-2015-nfl-draft-littered-with-failed-picks/amp/

Pace didn't have his scouts in place for this draft.

Idk what resources he had or not at that time, but this write up seems to support the general view around the league Bears haven't made much progress on the talent acquisition front over the last three or so years.

That is the general view of the blood thristy bears fans.

"havent made much progress" lol, Pace walked in the building to an aging 4-3 defense and flipped to a 3-4. Three years later its a top 10 defense.

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[Axxo]

Pace didn't have his scouts in place for this draft.

Idk what resources he had or not at that time, but this write up seems to support the general view around the league Bears haven't made much progress on the talent acquisition front over the last three or so years.

How do you feel about the past two drafts?

Well...going 3-16, 5-11. Not too good.

[Axxo]

Pace didn't have his scouts in place for this draft.

Idk what resources he had or not at that time, but this write up seems to support the general view around the league Bears haven't made much progress on the talent acquisition front over the last three or so years.

That is the general view of the blood thristy bears fans.

"havent made much progress" lol, Pace walked in the building to an aging 4-3 defense and flipped to a 3-4. Three years later its a top 10 defense.

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The artcles i posted on that and power rankings write ups were not written by known bears fans.

Fangio can elevate guys. He should get some credit for the defense.

[City of Trees]

Idk what resources he had or not at that time, but this write up seems to support the general view around the league Bears haven't made much progress on the talent acquisition front over the last three or so years.

That is the general view of the blood thristy bears fans.

"havent made much progress" lol, Pace walked in the building to an aging 4-3 defense and flipped to a 3-4. Three years later its a top 10 defense.

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app

The artcles i posted on that and power rankings write ups were not written by known bears fans.

Fangio can elevate guys. He should get some credit for the defense.

Maybe I missed something? I see the BearsWire link going over the 2015 draft class and that's it?

The guy who wrote it has #DaBears in his twitter bio

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[Axxo]

That is the general view of the blood thristy bears fans.

"havent made much progress" lol, Pace walked in the building to an aging 4-3 defense and flipped to a 3-4. Three years later its a top 10 defense.

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app

The artcles i posted on that and power rankings write ups were not written by known bears fans.

Fangio can elevate guys. He should get some credit for the defense.

Maybe I missed something? I see the BearsWire link going over the 2015 draft class and that's it?

The guy who wrote it has #DaBears in his twitter bio

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This one is bearswire thats correct. Hoge may be a bears fan. However, what I think you missed was I said "articles" plural and power rankings. The other article was on espn. Also you said blood thirsty fans. Do you know that Hoge, the article on espn and all of the power rankings that referred to the lack of talent on the bears roster are blood thirsty fans? Some of them could be actual fans, but do you know them to be blood thirsty. The point is there is a repeated reference from different unrelated sources about the scarcity or lack of talent under Pace over the rebuild period.

[Susan]

Idk what resources he had or not at that time, but this write up seems to support the general view around the league Bears haven't made much progress on the talent acquisition front over the last three or so years.

How do you feel about the past two drafts?

Well...going 3-16, 5-11. Not too good.

That's not talking about the draft. What do you think of the players Pace drafted in those years?

[Axxo]

How do you feel about the past two drafts?

Well...going 3-16, 5-11. Not too good.

That's not talking about the draft. What do you think of the players Pace drafted in those years?

Yeah true, record also reflects the free agents. I was still at work so I didnt really dive into the response.

2015 I think Pace was good on Goldman and Amos. Goldman would have higher marks if he was available more. Amos has limitations but Pace kind of balanced that out with E.Jackson. I think he missed on the rest from 2015.

2016 he took a flyer on Floyd and that worked out. Whitehair is ok, not as available. Ranks out as avg on PFF. Was hoping more for a probowler at this position. Bullard would need to get better. Right now see the need to get another DE. NK is impactful. Deandre Houston-Carlson is blah. Deon Bush is a no and Jordan Howard was a hit.
In sum, Floyd, Howard, Nick K - yes, whitehair is ok for the rest in this draft I think miss.

2017 Mitch is doing ok. Not in favor of the way Pace got him but it is what it is. Jackson, Cohen much better than I though going in. Dont agree with taking Shaheen in 2nd round. I figured he would be a project and he definetly is. Jordan Morgan is a no for me. So no on the last 2.

[RedBulls23]

You can not want Pace fired, but also say that he's hasn't done a "good job." He's been average so far.

It weird the arguments you hear about how he didn't have a lot to work with coming in, but that was literally the same argument for Emery. In the end, results are what matters. If the Bears win 5 or so games again next season, it will be hard to convince me that Pace should keep his job still.

[RedBulls23]

Pace's last two drafts have certainly been better then his first one. I think there are only 2 players left from that draft that can be considered even serviceable.

I think Pace has over all done a solid job with the draft at funding mostly serviceable players, but he hasn't drafted that one elite game changer just yet.

I've not been a fan of his free agency over all. A lot of wasted dollars spent.

[City of Trees]

The artcles i posted on that and power rankings write ups were not written by known bears fans.

Fangio can elevate guys. He should get some credit for the defense.

Maybe I missed something? I see the BearsWire link going over the 2015 draft class and that's it?

The guy who wrote it has #DaBears in his twitter bio

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app

This one is bearswire thats correct. Hoge may be a bears fan. However, what I think you missed was I said "articles" plural and power rankings. The other article was on espn. Also you said blood thirsty fans. Do you know that Hoge, the article on espn and all of the power rankings that referred to the lack of talent on the bears roster are blood thirsty fans? Some of them could be actual fans, but do you know them to be blood thirsty. The point is there is a repeated reference from different unrelated sources about the scarcity or lack of talent under Pace over the rebuild period.

Yes I did miss the other articles you are referencing. To move along quickly without back and forth I will own the fan comment I made.

As for Hoge I have not read nor heard his comments on Pace, I was referencing the BearsWire writer Bryan Perez. No big deal.


What i would like to do is focus on the 2015 draft. Lets recap the top 10 so we can have perspective to the BearsWire link you posted:

#1 Bucs- 7 total picks. 4 players remain on roster. 4 players considered building blocks (Winston, OT Smith, LB Kwon A., Marpet)
#2 Titans- 9 total picks. 2 players remain on roster. 2 players considered building blocks (Mariota, Gallik)
#3 Jags- 8 total picks. 4 players remain on roster. 2 players considered building blocks (Fowler jr, Cann)
#4 Raiders- 8 total picks. 5 players remain on roster. 2 players considered building blocks (Cooper, Edwards jr)
#5 Skins- 10 total picks. 5 players remain on roster. 3 players considered building blocks (Scherff, Smith, Crowder)
#6 Jets- 6 total picks. 4 players remain on roster. 1 player considered building block (Williams)
#7 Bears- 6 total picks. 4 players remain on roster. 2 players considered building blocks (Goldman, Amos)
#8 Falcons- 7 total picks. 3 players remain on roster. 2 players considered building blocks (Beasley, Coleman)
#9 Giants- 6 total picks. 2 players remain on roster. 1 player considered building block (Collins)
#10 Rams- 9 total picks. 4 players remain on roster. 3 players considered building blocks (Gurley, Havenstein, J. Brown)


*I referenced NFL.com for current rosters and IR
**Building block title was based on Games started and production.

By my count there are four 2017 playoff teams. All of them missed on high round picks.

The one thing that does stand out here is Kevin White and Erek Flowers are the two players from the 1st round (top 10) not listed as building blocks going into 2018. Pace has to own that.

Overall I feel the Bears were middle of the pack.

[Axxo]

Pace's last two drafts have certainly been better then his first one. I think there are only 2 players left from that draft that can be considered even serviceable.

I think Pace has over all done a solid job with the draft at funding mostly serviceable players, but he hasn't drafted that one elite game changer just yet.

I've not been a fan of his free agency over all. A lot of wasted dollars spent.

I agree here. I come away with "he just hasn't done eenough" especially for having three years. I think thats what the different write ups are alluding to.

[patryk7754]

How do you feel about the past two drafts?

Well...going 3-16, 5-11. Not too good.

That's not talking about the draft. What do you think of the players Pace drafted in those years?

Clearly, Pace has draft outstandingly. White is definitely a huge mistake but it looks like he was the only glaring one. Everyone else has made immediate impacts or they’re late round picks and you’d be an ass for saying a 7th rounder isn’t producing like he should. And then there Trubisky which it’s too early to judge.

[patryk7754]

Pace's last two drafts have certainly been better then his first one. I think there are only 2 players left from that draft that can be considered even serviceable.

I think Pace has over all done a solid job with the draft at funding mostly serviceable players, but he hasn't drafted that one elite game changer just yet.

I've not been a fan of his free agency over all. A lot of wasted dollars spent.

Why is this first draft considered so bad? Only two player considered serviceable? Goldman is a pro bowl level NT and Amos in one of the best safeties in the league. Sure, it looks like he missed big on White but he hit a HR with Goldman and a grand slam with Amos. Plus Langford was a really good contributor during his time here, Pace just happen to draft one of the best backs in league to take his spot.