The Benson vs. Jones 2007 Thread

Jello Biafra · Post #1 » by **Jello Biafra** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:05 pm

There's been a lot of talk, perhaps too much talk, about this trade. So lets see how they match up.

Thomas Jones

Week 1 vs. Pats: 14 att. 42 yds. Long 12 yds. 1 rec. 6 yds.

Week 2 vs. Ravens: 24 att. 67 yds. Long 9 yds. 2 rec. 20 yds.

Total: 38 att. 109 yds. 2.9 yds/att. Long 12. 0 tds. 3 rec. 26 yds. 8.7 yds/att 0 tds.

Cedric Benson

Week 1 vs. Chargers: 19 att. 42 yds. Long 11 yds. 1 rec. 11 yds.

Week 2 vs. Chiefs: 24 att. 101 yds. Long 12 yds. 1 rec. 9 yds.

Total: 43 att. 143 yds. 3.3 yds/att. 2 rec. 20 yds. 10 yds/att. 0 tds.

I think Benson is outplaying Thomas now. And he's only going to get better if he avoids injury. Thomas ain't getting any better. We got his peak years. I don't want to hear this "pick up the blitz" crap. When Benson is in on a pass play, it is either play action or they put him in motion to the right flanker position. Peterson is the one back there on third down, and especially third and long. He is the one who missed the assignment on the last sack on the blitz up the middle.

If Wolfe pans out, and Benson continues to produce, the trade will work out in spades.

summary · Post #2 » by **summary** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:13 pm

Hm, well personally I'm still taking a wait and see approach with Benson but that comparison is pretty obviously funny.

Patriots>>Chargers
Ravens>>>>>>>>>>>>Chiefs

That is comparing apples and really weak moldy oranges.

treyZz · Post #3 » by **treyZz** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:19 pm

Jets OL > Bears OL

Cliff Levingston · Post #4 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:47 pm

A more applicable comparison would be Jones 2006 vs. Benson 2007, since the situations are pretty comparable. Cliff Levingston doesn't feel like doing it right now though.

Post #5 » by **dougthonus** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:22 pm

I'm not sure if there is any metric I would take Benson in over Jones in 2006. I would like to say power running, but Benson has thus far been fairly woeful as a power runner as well.

There have been a number of plays that if Jones had the same hole Benson had that he would have broken far longer runs because Benson doesn't have the ability to really cut back well or hit the corners as fast.

If we had a bunch of 3rd and 1s or 4th and 1st that Benson picked up then I would say maybe it all evens out, except that hasn't been the case.

I don't know how well Jones would have done this year, but I felt he was pretty clearly the better back last year, and Benson hasn't done anything this year to make me think that he is close to doing what Jones did last year.

Granted, I think it's too early to really start pounding away at stats. I also think that Jones age is going to start to wear him down, and this may be the year he takes a big step backwards. I'm not upset about the direction we went, however Benson sure doesn't look as good as 2006 Thomas Jones to me, and if the Bears want to get back to the superbowl they're going to need a running game as good as they had last year not something that's better than whatever the Jets do.

Post #6 » by **emperorjones** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:40 pm

Did anyone think Benson looked worn out by the 3rd quarter? I kept thinking he was injured it was taking him so long to get up.

I think Benson vs Jones 2007 not 2006 is more interesting for me. Jello, are you going to keep this updated through the season? I would like for the Jones fans to have easy access to his mediocrity during the course of the year.

Post #7 » by **CBS7** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:06 pm

Thomas Jones is playing injured right now, isn't he?

treyZz · Post #8 » by **treyZz** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:49 am

_CBS7_ wrote:Thomas Jones is playing injured right now, isn't he?

False.

TylerB · Post #9 » by **TylerB** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:33 am

If you watched the Bears last year and came to the conclusion that Jones was a better runner than Benson you need to just stop and re-evaluate where your life is going. Benson started slowly coming off that injury but as the season went on he really was a punishing runner. There was a reason why he was getting a majority of the carries the last six games of the season and into the playoffs.

The 2nd half of the season last year Benson ran 94 times for 439 yards which comes out to 4.7 yards a carry.

Neither of them are fast enough to get to the edge consistently, the problem is Jones runs soft and dances looking for a hole while Benson runs hard and hits holes hard and gets three yards instead of -2 when little is there.

Neither of them break big runs, but the typical 3 yards and a cloud of dust runs favor Benson because Jones is 0 yards and a cloud of dust in the same situation.

Joe Jackson · Post #10 » by **Joe Jackson** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:02 am

Is Cedric faster than Larry Johnson if he got in the open field?
He looks faster to me.

NoSkyy · Post #11 » by **NoSkyy** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:10 am

Joe Jackson wrote:Is Cedric faster than Larry Johnson if he got in the open field?
He looks faster to me.

I think maybe our defense just made Larry Johnson look slow.

Jello Biafra · Post #12 » by **Jello Biafra** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:52 am

emperorjones wrote:I think Benson vs Jones 2007 not 2006 is more interesting for me. Jello, are you going to keep this updated through the season? I would like for the Jones fans to have easy access to his mediocrity during the course of the year.

Done. I will devote myself to weekly updates.

Post #13 » by **dougthonus** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:31 am

If you watched the Bears last year and came to the conclusion that Jones was a better runner than Benson you need to just stop and re-evaluate where your life is going.

Yes, clearly thinking Jones was better than Benson last year is an idea so insane that it requires an entire re-evaluation of life.

Neither of them are fast enough to get to the edge consistently, the problem is Jones runs soft and dances looking for a hole while Benson runs hard and hits holes hard and gets three yards instead of -2 when little is there.

Jones definitely could get to the edge and cut back FAR better than Benson. As well as run routes, catch balls, and pass block. Benson's sole advantage is power running except that he's not a good enough power runner for that to be useful. Especially given that he's constantly nicked by minor things.

treyZz · Post #14 » by **treyZz** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:30 am

Jones was an absolutely atrocious in pass protection last year.

If you watched the Bears last year and came to the conclusion that Jones was a better runner than Benson you need to just stop and re-evaluate where your life is going.

I agree

TylerB · Post #15 » by **TylerB** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:16 am

Jones definitely could get to the edge and cut back FAR better than Benson.

Getting to the edge and cutting back are two different things. Jones had good vision and could make a nice cut once getting to the second level, but he could NOT get to the edge...ever. He would run straight to the sideline angling backwards and be run out of bounds for a 3 yard loss. It happened twice a game it seemed.

As well as run routes, catch balls, and pass block.

Jones might have understood the pass blocking schemes better but he certainly wasn't a better blocker. Catching balls he was ok with but he is actually one of the worst recieving tailbacks in the NFL because of how bad he is in the open field. Jones I believe set a record for having the worst yards per catch average in the history of the league for backs getting 30+ catches.

Route running? Where did you come up with that? Our backs don't really run any routes that take precision.

Benson's sole advantage is power running except that he's not a good enough power runner for that to be useful.

He is a powerful runner that doesn't mean he is only better than Jones in that aspect. Just being able to hit a hole when its there makes him better than Jones. Jones was a very average runner, Benson beat him out for carries last year and Jones is gone because of his lack of ability with the ball in his hands.

Post #16 » by **CBS7** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:14 pm

With some of these opinions on TJ you'd think he was crap, and not that he ran for 2550 yards and 15 TDs in the past 2 years.

Jones hasn't really done anything in the first two games but its just two games... LaDainian Tomlinson, Steven Jackson, and Larry Johnson haven't done anything either through two games. Benson hasn't exactly been tearing it up either.

I think Benson is the better runner but its nowhere near to the point where one can say if you think TJ was better you should reevaluate your life.

Benson was also non existent in the playoffs whereas Jones rushed for 301 yards on 5.5 yards per carry and 4 TDs.

Post #17 » by **dougthonus** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:33 pm

Getting to the edge and cutting back are two different things.

Yes, and Jones was better at both than Benson.

Jones had good vision and could make a nice cut once getting to the second level, but he could NOT get to the edge...ever.

I don't think he's great at getting to the edge, but he occasionally would bust a long run by doing so. Benson would not have a prayer at doing so.

He would run straight to the sideline angling backwards and be run out of bounds for a 3 yard loss. It happened twice a game it seemed.

All runners trying to get to the edge have these kind of plays occasionally.

Jones might have understood the pass blocking schemes better but he certainly wasn't a better blocker. Catching balls he was ok with but he is actually one of the worst recieving tailbacks in the NFL because of how bad he is in the open field. Jones I believe set a record for having the worst yards per catch average in the history of the league for backs getting 30+ catches.

Route running? Where did you come up with that? Our backs don't really run any routes that take precision.

Let me rephrase. Jones was good at going out as a receiver, finding an open space, and catching the ball. I'd imagine the part of the reason Jones didn't have great YAC is a lot of the plays we hit him on are spots where he goes out 5 yards, makes the catch and gets smeared. We didn't seem to run a lot of the screen passes that set up good YAC catches that many teams do, however, my memory may be playing tricks on me.

He is a powerful runner that doesn't mean he is only better than Jones in that aspect. Just being able to hit a hole when its there makes him better than Jones. Jones was a very average runner, Benson beat him out for carries last year and Jones is gone because of his lack of ability with the ball in his hands.

Benson is probably a better interior runner, but his inability to do anything on the outside, cut back, or run away from pursuit yields few big plays. So far, I don't think he's good enough as a power runner to be a power runner who adds little else. Benson is in the bottom 3rd starting tailbacks in the NFL. Thomas Jones is as well, and with another year of age, Benson may be better than Jones. However, that doesn't make Benson any good.

TylerB · Post #18 » by **TylerB** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:04 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Getting to the edge and cutting back are two different things.

Yes, and Jones was better at both than Benson.

More life re-evaluation is needed if you think Thomas Jones gets to the edge better than Benson....or anyone. Did it occur in the past 3 years more than once or twice?

I don't think he's great at getting to the edge, but he occasionally would bust a long run by doing so. Benson would not have a prayer at doing so.

I remember a long Benson TD run against the Vikings, Jones never had a long run where he got to the edge that I can recall.

All runners trying to get to the edge have these kind of plays occasionally.

No they don't. Jones literally would angle back, keep trying to get the edge while being escorted backwards by Sam backers with no speed and with no fight he'd go out of bounds angling away from the LOS the whole time. Benson had some runs that started like this on Sunday, except instead of running out of bounds for a 4 yard loss he would cut up the field and fall forward for a couple more yards.

I'd imagine the part of the reason Jones didn't have great YAC is a lot of the plays we hit him on are spots where he goes out 5 yards, makes the catch and gets smeared. We didn't seem to run a lot of the screen passes that set up good YAC catches that many teams do, however, my memory may be playing tricks on me.

First of all it wasn't a poor ypc, it was the WORST IN NFL HISTORY for a guy getting over 30 balls. And his numbers were bad because he is always tackled by the first guy he meets in the open field, whereas Benson can break a tackle of a defensive back at a good rate.

Jones never could. It was an embarrassment, especially in the super bowl when he caught 3 balls on swing passes where he was tackled by the corner every single time. All plays where breaking a tackle or making a guy miss turn into 10+ yard plays. But he can't do anything in the open field.

Benson is probably a better interior runner, but his inability to do anything on the outside, cut back, or run away from pursuit yields few big plays.

Benson doesn't have a lot of big runs, but neither does Jones. Jones 52 yarder in the super bowl was his longest as a Bear. I think he had two more 40+ yard runs in his 3 seasons. He never had a long run where he wasn't taken down from behind and he isn't faster than Benson.

So far, I don't think he's good enough as a power runner to be a power runner who adds little else. Benson is in the bottom 3rd starting tailbacks in the NFL. Thomas Jones is as well, and with another year of age, Benson may be better than Jones. However, that doesn't make Benson any good.

Agreed, being better than Jones doesn't make one good. But certainly Jones was NOT one of the best 30 tailbacks in the NFL at any point in his career. Benson is now and probably much better than that. There is nothing Jones does better than Benson besides having a little better vision on the second level. The biggest issue, and as a runner this is an important thing. You have to be able to break tackles or make guys miss. Benson can break tackles, Jones could do neither.

Benson had 4 runs of 12+ yards against KC and he didn't have them by running through tackles. He used his vision and cutting ability to hit holes off tackle turn it up the field and get into the secondary.

TylerB · Post #19 » by **TylerB** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:07 pm

http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=hi ... ilter=2006

1:15

Post #20 » by **dougthonus** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:09 pm

More life re-evaluation is needed if you think Thomas Jones gets to the edge better than Benson....or anyone. Did it occur in the past 3 years more than once or twice?

Is there some reason you start every argument off with an insult? This is the second time you've had to lead your argument with belittling personal attacks.

Funny, this conversation reminds me of one we had at the beginning of last year where I believe I said Rex Grossman and Michael Haynes were busts and you assured me that they were both great 1st round picks.

You see things differently with Benson then me, that's fine. We can wait until the end of the year, and we'll see if Benson backs up your faith as well as Haynes and Grossman have.