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EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5)

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EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#1 » by emperorjones » Thu Sep 4, 2008 4:06 pm

OK ok....I'm a total Homer, but with logic behind my homerism.
I'm listening today to Mike & Mike on ESPN and Greenberg picks the Vikings to go to the Superbowl. :lol: I remember last year many were picking the Vikings to win the NFC North. I'm looking at our team that finished the last half of the 2006 season and comparing it to this years roster. As for drop offs(-) and improvements(+) and equality(=), this is what I see:

WR Muhsin Muhammad……Deven Hester (+)
LT John Tait…………………...John St. Clair/(Chris Williams) (-/?)
LG Ruben Brown…………….Josh Beekman (?)
C Olin Kreutz………………….same (-)
RG Roberto Garza……………same (-)
RT Fred Miller…………………John Tait (+)
TE Desmond Clark……………Greg Olson(+)
WR Bernard Berrian…………Brandon Lloyd (-)
QB Rex Grossman…………….Kyle Orton(+)
RB Thomas Jones…………….Matt Forte(?)
TE/FB Jason McKie………….same(=)

(=):1
(+):4
(-):4
(?):3

Having a steady, less spectacular but less mistake prone Orton will steady the offense and keep it on the field longer, even if it doesn't result in more points. I for one don't believe Orton is just a manager of the offense. The guy came to play this year. Dropped 20lbs and looked good in the last 3 preseason games. I'm the last Rex fan on earth (even Rex is off the bandwagon), but I do now think for this team Kyle's steady play is what is needed. IMO, the coaching staff panicked last year when they inserted Greese. They should have let Rex ride out the first four or 5 games before even thinking of making a switch - But that's old news. Orton has the game that fits this staff's temperament. I expect good things despite a banged up O-line.

As for the offensive line, you'll notice I have it as an overall (-) with question marks for Beekman (who I think will start by mid-season if not sooner) and Williams (once he recovers but for now a minus with Tait). The line is better than last year if only because they coaches have been smart enough to leave Tait at RT and go for consistency (even if it means LT will be consistently bad). I actually think our coaching staff is maturing. Last years bouncing St. Clair around from tackle to guard made for inconsistent and poor play for the line in general.

The keys for me are the receivers and tight ends. Looking at Berrian, Muhammad & Clark vs. Lloyd, Hester & Olsen, you see an upgrade in speed and IMO a greater ability to create space. Its yet to be seen how sure handed this group can be, but one thing for sure is secondaries will not be able to cheat. Hester will demand attention from the safety over the top. Olsen will take attention as well. Lloyd looks like he may have worked out whatever problems he had with the Skins as well. Overall I believe we have upgraded at Receiver (Muhammad was overated and while I was a big fan of Rex to Berrian, last year Berrian took a big step back after adding extra muscle in the offseason IMO).

That takes us to Forte. Having a back that can be in on both passing and running downs is huge. One thing we have all grown sick of is our offense's predictability. This is the year that we will not face 8 IN THE BOX! Because Hester Lloyd & Olsen will stretch the field, bringing an extra man into the Box this year will be risky for opposing defenses. This means that Forte should have a very strong season - but as a rookie I sill leave him as a question mark.

DEFENSE

LE Adewale Ogunleye ………….same(=)
LDT Tank Johnson ……………...Dusty Dvoracek(+)
RDT Ian Scott………………….....Tommie Harris(+)
RE Alex Brown………………….....same(=)
LOLB Hunter Hillenmeyer …..same(=)
MLB Brian Urlacher ……………same(-)
ROLB Lance Briggs ……….……same(=)
LCB Charles Tillman……….……same (=)
RCB Nathan Vasher ………….…same(=)
SS Chris Harris ………………..….Kevin Payne(+)
FS Danieal Manning……………..Mike Brown(+)

(=):6
(+):4
(-):1
(?):0

This is where I find people's pessimism astonishing. Above is the team that started last half of 2006 or so and the Superbowl on defense. The Bears were considered "built for the future" on defense and folks were saying they would dominate for years. THIS IS THAT SAME TEAM! Two years older yes, but more experienced as well. Replacing of safeties and adding Dusty in replace of Tank is a BIG upgrade IMO. Yes Urlacher is a year older, but the guy had 5 sacks and 5 interceptions last year. And there were no hints of lingering injuries during the preseason (although I'll still give him a minus as he has dropped off).

So those of you saying 6-10 (CHEWIE! :lol: ) or worse, please note that we were TERRIBLE on offense last year and decimated by injuries on defense and still went 7-9 and easily could have been 8-8 (Lions game) or more.

There's no way this team goes 6-10 unless the injury bug bites big time again.

11-5 (Maybe 10-6 because LT is up in the air now, but playoff bound and winners of the NFC North).
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#2 » by Chewie » Thu Sep 4, 2008 5:24 pm

And, now, for a rebuttal.

Look - I'm a Bear fan, too, but I'm also a realist. I'd loooove to be wrong here but I just don't see reason for hope this year. Yes, we were missing Mike Brown, Vasher, and Dvoracek last year. And Tommie Harris was gimpy most of the season. Every team has injuries, though, and the good ones find a way to fill in the gaps and move on. And - guess what? - Dvoracek is being held out of practices again and got a late start to boot this year, Tommie Harris looks like he should have had something done with his knee in the offseason, and Mike Brown's health is a constant cause for concern.

Last I checked, the only Bears missing from the field were Vasher and Brown when Adrian Peterson put up 224 rushing yds and 3 TDs on our home turf last year. Same thing goes for when such "studs" as Pierre Thomas (who?) put up 226 total yds and Derrick Ward put up 183 against our D.

And, I'll say it again, when our starting defense thought they could just turn the switch to 'on' in the last preseason game (yes, I'm bringing up the preseason) the Browns made us look silly when they didn't even have their starting QB, RB, or star WR. J.T Friggin' O'Sullilvan and Frank Gore made us look like chumps in the preseason game #3 to the point where Mike Nolan employed the mercy rule and took them out after just a couple of series. You can tell me it's preseason all you want - WE WERE TRYING and looking awful in the process with our first teamers. These games - at least the first quarter or two of them - are just a peek into what's to come in the regular season for our defense. Urlacher looking a step slow and late arriving safeties taking bad angles will be the story.

And the offense? Ugh. We've got to have the weakest WRs in the league. Wasn't it just yesterday Moose was showing Hester where to line up as the play clock whittled down? And didn't Brandon Lloyd have all of 2 receptions in 2007? Ladies and gentlemen, these are you starting wide-outs this year. And THIS is an improvement ?!?

The o-line is a joke - our 1st round draft pick is out until late in the season for one and that was a NEED pick if there ever was one. Tait will begin to show his age (33) as he did in the preseason. We put St. Clair - best used as a backup OG - at the most vital position on the line. Beekman couldn't sniff the field last year and all of sudden we're counting on him. The Vikings DTs eat Kreutz for lunch. And the less I say about Terrence Metcalf the better.

As much as I like Forte, it'll take a miracle for him to put up decent numbers with a line that won't open holes against defenses that will continue to put 8 in the box and DARE Orton to beat them.

I WILL say we've got a darned good long snapper in Mannelly, returner in Hester, and some go-getters on special teams (Roach, J Williams, McClover) but when you're pointing to special teams as a reason for hope that's a reach. When you've got to COUNT on blocked punts and return TDs, you've got problems.

In conclusion.....6 AND 10.

And even that is optimistic.
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#3 » by Cliff Levingston » Thu Sep 4, 2008 5:51 pm

Cliff Levingston is pessimistic because of the lines. The O line was a massive concern in the offseason and arguably is even more so now with the loss of Chris Williams for the season. Cliff Levingston says the whole season cause even if he can make it back before the end of the season, he won't be in game shape and thus won't be any better than St. Clair by that time.

Kreutz and Tait both took steps back last year so there's no reason to believe they won't this year... or at least remain at a mediocre level. Garza was never that great and Metcalf/Beekman isn't going to be any better than Ruben Brown or John St. Clair at LG. Lastly, St. Clair is out LT? Ugh.

So not only is our line a disaster, our skill positions aren't much better. Orton is ok and will manage the team but let's not pretend he's going to be able to carry the offense with his passing even if he did have a good offensive line in front of him. Forte looks good but is still a rookie and Kevin Jones is coming off an ACL tear. Our WR's are complete crap unless one or two guys really exceed expectations this year. The only position on offense that you can really call NFL caliber right now is the tight ends, bu even then, Greg Olsen has shown that he's not a good blocker and doesn't like being hit.

On the other side, we've got a chance to be a dominating line, but it's not encouraging to see Harris and Dvoracek nursing injuries the week before game 1. Those injuries will only get worse and more nagging before season's end, so if either or both are out of hampered by those, we might as well give up hope of having a great defensive line unless Marcus Harrison vastly exceeds expectations. With Urlacher in steep decline and questionable safeties in a defensive scheme that relies heavily upon the safeties, we'll need a dominating line in order to have any chance at being a dominating defense.

7-9, only cause the Bears always pick up a couple stupid victories at the end of the season when we're firmly out of the playoff race.
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#4 » by emperorjones » Thu Sep 4, 2008 8:13 pm

Nice analysis Chewie & Cliff. Can't wait to see. Chewie, what was our sig bet again?

Cliff Levingston wrote:7-9, only cause the Bears always pick up a couple stupid victories at the end of the season when we're firmly out of the playoff race.


I HATE that seems like that has been happening for the last 20 years!
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#5 » by Chewie » Thu Sep 4, 2008 8:37 pm

emperorjones wrote:Nice analysis Chewie & Cliff. Can't wait to see. Chewie, what was our sig bet again?



That Aaron Gray will be the Bulls starting center by 12/31. I say no, you say yes.
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#6 » by emperorjones » Thu Sep 4, 2008 8:56 pm

Chewie wrote:
emperorjones wrote:Nice analysis Chewie & Cliff. Can't wait to see. Chewie, what was our sig bet again?



That Aaron Gray will be the Bulls starting center by 12/31. I say no, you say yes.


:banghead: Ugh. I'm such an optimist... :nonono:
Have you figured out what my new sig will be?
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#7 » by Chewie » Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:41 am

Jeez- you take all the fun out of it when you just give up like that.

I sense you want to make the sig bet Bear related instead. Have something in mind ?
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#8 » by CBS7 » Fri Sep 5, 2008 10:31 am

If the Bears are closer to 11-5 emperor wins, if they are closer to 6-10 Chewie wins?
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#9 » by tclg » Fri Sep 5, 2008 3:09 pm

I think we can win 9 games
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#10 » by Chewie » Fri Sep 5, 2008 3:27 pm

CBS7 wrote:If the Bears are closer to 11-5 emperor wins, if they are closer to 6-10 Chewie wins?


Listen, if I'm giving up a slam dunk win with the Gray bet I think I deserve a little better odds than that. Double digit wins and emperor wins the bet. Anything less and I am the victor.

What say you, emp ?
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#11 » by emperorjones » Fri Sep 5, 2008 5:07 pm

Chewie wrote:
CBS7 wrote:If the Bears are closer to 11-5 emperor wins, if they are closer to 6-10 Chewie wins?


Listen, if I'm giving up a slam dunk win with the Gray bet I think I deserve a little better odds than that. Double digit wins and emperor wins the bet. Anything less and I am the victor.

What say you, emp ?


Well first I say...

AARON GRAY WILL START BY 12/31/08!!!!
I'll keep that sig bet (I had a few drinks yesterday afternoon and that clouded my AG loyalty!)
But I'll also take a double digit Bears win avatar bet with you!!!

By the end of December one of us will be heavily mocked on these boards! :lol:
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#12 » by Chewie » Fri Sep 5, 2008 5:51 pm

emperorjones wrote:
Chewie wrote:
CBS7 wrote:If the Bears are closer to 11-5 emperor wins, if they are closer to 6-10 Chewie wins?


Listen, if I'm giving up a slam dunk win with the Gray bet I think I deserve a little better odds than that. Double digit wins and emperor wins the bet. Anything less and I am the victor.

What say you, emp ?


Well first I say...

AARON GRAY WILL START BY 12/31/08!!!!
I'll keep that sig bet (I had a few drinks yesterday afternoon and that clouded my AG loyalty!)
But I'll also take a double digit Bears win avatar bet with you!!!

By the end of December one of us will be heavily mocked on these boards! :lol:


WOW! :eek2: An avatar bet is much juicier than a sig bet in my mind.

You are sooooo on.

Sig bet : Gray is our STARTING CENTER by 12/31/08 (not just have a start under his belt)
Avatar bet : Bears will have double digit regular season wins by season's end.

If the answer is no to both, I'll make your posts look some kind of embarrassing.

Hmmm....can we do user name bets (ala "Susan")?? That's our last resort !
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#13 » by Chewie » Fri Sep 5, 2008 6:21 pm

I'm already doing my research...

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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#14 » by emperorjones » Fri Sep 5, 2008 9:33 pm

:o :o :o OH GOD...IF THERE WAS EVER A PRAYER TO BE ANSWERED PLEASE LET IT BE THE BEARS GETTING DOUBLE DIGIT WINS!!!! :pray: :pray: :pray:
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#15 » by dougthonus » Fri Sep 5, 2008 9:44 pm

emperorjones wrote:OK ok....I'm a total Homer, but with logic behind my homerism.
I'm listening today to Mike & Mike on ESPN and Greenberg picks the Vikings to go to the Superbowl. :lol: I remember last year many were picking the Vikings to win the NFC North. I'm looking at our team that finished the last half of the 2006 season and comparing it to this years roster. As for drop offs(-) and improvements(+) and equality(=), this is what I see:

WR Muhsin Muhammad……Deven Hester (+)
LT John Tait…………………...John St. Clair/(Chris Williams) (-/?)
LG Ruben Brown…………….Josh Beekman (?)
C Olin Kreutz………………….same (-)
RG Roberto Garza……………same (-)
RT Fred Miller…………………John Tait (+)
TE Desmond Clark……………Greg Olson(+)
WR Bernard Berrian…………Brandon Lloyd (-)
QB Rex Grossman…………….Kyle Orton(+)
RB Thomas Jones…………….Matt Forte(?)
TE/FB Jason McKie………….same(=)


That's crazy, compared to 2006
There is not one clear advantage comparing our 2008 roster to our 2006 roster.

Tait, Brown, Berrian, Muhammad, Jones, and Grossman were all WAY WAY better than what you'd expect out of their 2008 equivalents.
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#16 » by Chi Dynasty12 » Sat Sep 6, 2008 9:58 pm

I hope you're right. It all depends on our O-LIne and Defense putting it together very soon and performing. If not, we're doomed, unless the Vikings, Lions, Packers suck too which actually seems a realistic possibility.
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#17 » by emperorjones » Mon Sep 8, 2008 1:35 pm

emperorjones wrote:
Having a steady, less spectacular but less mistake prone Orton will steady the offense and keep it on the field longer, even if it doesn't result in more points. I for one don't believe Orton is just a manager of the offense. The guy came to play this year. Dropped 20lbs and looked good in the last 3 preseason games......Orton has the game that fits this staff's temperament. I expect good things despite a banged up O-line.....As for the offensive line, you'll notice I have it as an overall (-) with question marks for Beekman (who I think will start by mid-season if not sooner) .....The line is better than last year if only because they coaches have been smart enough to leave Tait at RT and go for consistency (even if it means LT will be consistently bad). I actually think our coaching staff is maturing.....The keys for me are the receivers and tight ends. Looking at Berrian, Muhammad & Clark vs. Lloyd, Hester & Olsen, you see an upgrade in speed and IMO a greater ability to create space..... Hester will demand attention from the safety over the top. Olsen will take attention as well. Lloyd looks like he may have worked out whatever problems he had....

That takes us to Forte. Having a back that can be in on both passing and running downs is huge. One thing we have all grown sick of is our offense's predictability. This is the year that we will not face 8 IN THE BOX! Because Hester Lloyd & Olsen will stretch the field, bringing an extra man into the Box this year will be risky for opposing defenses. This means that Forte should have a very strong season

11-5 (Maybe 10-6 because LT is up in the air now, but playoff bound and winners of the NFC North).


Whichever prognosticator said all that great and accurate stuff should be given Rosenbloom's job at the Tribune
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Re: EmperorJones is not a Homer (Bears 11-5) 

Post#18 » by Mr Smoke Weed » Tue Sep 9, 2008 1:28 am

i understood the general skepticism about the offensive line but not about the defense

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