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SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:15 am
by emperorjones
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/05/10/may11/index.html?eref=T1

Amazing the kind of respect a quarterback can bring to a team! :lol:
I'm amazed a national publication is giving us this much credibility.

You'll find one very predictable thing in common with every top team in my annual Tick Off Half The Football Fans In America Post-Free-Agency, Post-Draft NFL Power Rankings: quarterbacks. The best teams have 'em. The worst teams don't, at least not that we can see yet. Look at the top dozen teams. Every one has a quarterback you wouldn't be shocked to see playing deep into the playoffs this year.

It's still 11 weeks before most teams enter training camp, but the personnel hay is in the barn for almost every team. Maybe Anquan Boldin gets dealt; maybe Brett Favre comes back (more on him in 10 Things). But there won't be much major roster-tweaking before the camp begins. So here we go, 1 to 32, with a surprise or two, starting at number four:

1. New England
Teams don't stay the same in the NFL. That's the old bromide. But tell me: What's the difference between the Patriots of 2007 and the Patriots who enter the season in 2009? I'll tell you the biggest thing -- concern about Tom Brady's knee. And if there were any real reason to be concerned, Bill Belichick wouldn't have traded Matt Cassel to Kansas City.

New England was seventh in the league in scoring with Brady playing one quarter in 2008; it'll be in the top three, easily, with him back. With new young talent in the defensive backfield -- Belichick can mix and match all the toys he's gathered over the past two offseasons, maybe playing Shawn Springs sparingly some weeks to keep him healthy for January -- New England should have enough ammo to be competitive with the best quarterbacks on the schedule. It was 5-1 down the stretch, including 4-0 on the road, as many of its young defenders grew up. I don't see much downside.

2. Pittsburgh
Other than losing Bryant McFadden (free agency, Arizona), nothing significant happened to a deep roster this offseason. You can be sure Mike Tomlin won't be much of a laurel-rester, but it's always quasi-impossible to repeat.

I had a friend of Ben Roethlisberger's tell me the best thing that could have happened to him was not being MVP of the Super Bowl. After he led one of the best playoff drives ever to give Pittsburgh its Super Bowl title, Santonio Holmes got the MVP. Big Ben said he was fine with it, but now he's got something else to shoot for and some perceived critics to shut up.

I worry a little about Hines Ward surviving another physical season, because there's not a good possession-receiver/playmaker behind him. I worry about Casey Hampton being in shape. When those are your biggest worries about a team, that team's in pretty good shape.

3. New York Giants
I've said I wished the Giants had acquired a veteran receiver like Anquan Boldin, because no team ever rides the backs of one or two rookie receivers to the Super Bowl. That's the biggest question on the deepest front-seven team in football (sorry, Ravens). Tom Coughlin and GM Jerry Reese know you need to be six or seven deep on the defensive front because you'll have an injury or two or three along the way. The Giants have a strange schedule -- three of the first four on the road, two of the last three on the road -- but a veteran team that has always played well on the road should survive it. New York has an excellent chance to go to the Super Bowl for the second time in three years.

4. Chicago
I may not like how Jay Cutler babied his way out of Denver, but by Labor Day, the football world will have forgotten, and by Thanksgiving, the most popular baby name in Chicagoland will be Jay. (Unless it's Jerry, as in Angelo, the man who stuck his neck out and made this deal.) Cutler's a big-time player, and I suspect we'll find out over the next few years if he has nerves of steel and can win the big game.

Now, there's two things we don't know about Cutler and this offense. There's not a great receiver in the house and no promise of one on the way (Angelo should have guaranteed Torry Holt more money to get him to come to the Windy City). So Cutler's going to have to make do with the Devin Hesters and Rashied Davises, apparently. (Not that there's anything wrong with Hester. But he should be a third receiver, using his speed to game-break.)

Two: How good of a leader can Cutler be, coming in with the knock that he chafes on some teammates. It'll be interesting to see if he meshes well with Brian Urlacher; I don't take for granted that he will. Because of the Cutler factor and because I don't love the defense the way I did two or three years ago, I didn't want to leap the Bears over so many other teams. But then I went back and looked at their 2008 numbers. The bedrock stats for a good defense, I've always thought, are opponents yards per rush, turnovers forced and opponents' yards per pass. The yards per rush, 3.4, was excellent, third-best in the league. Turnovers forced, 32, was very good, second in the league. And yards per pass play by foes, 6.20, was eighth in the league. All good. If Cutler can lead an offense that puts up 400 points, only a point and a fraction more than a year ago, the Bears should win 12. :o


5. Indianapolis
As long as Peyton Manning walks, talks and leads the way he does, the biggest question about the Colts is what they do in January, not October. I'll be interested, as we all will be, to see what kind of tweaking takes place on the defense, with a more aggressive style now that Tony Dungy and defensive coordinator Ron Meeks are gone and the more aggressive Larry Coyer has been hired to run that unit. I don't expect an overhaul of the Tampa 2, but I do expect the secondary to be more aggressive, particularly in some blitz situations, and I expect emerging star safety Melvin Bullitt to be used more, even with Bob Sanders in the game.


more at the link.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:28 am
by NZB2323
My prediction is that the Bears will be better next year due to improvements at d-line, o-line, QB, WR, and Olsen and Forte improving.

And Cutler will get all the credit.

Not that I really have a problem with it or anything.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:49 pm
by SpinninHouse
even though i dont think we're the 4th best team in the league, i do think a revamped offensive line and franchise quarterback will improve our offense pretty dramatically. it's not unreasonable to think most downs we'll have desmond clark and greg olsen out there together. that, to some extent, minimizes our need for wide-outs. but even still, we need somebody to step up and be a consistent threat. i don't think rashied davis will be that guy. he can't catch, period. i expect him to be out of the NFL after this year. that leaves earl bennett or the new guy inglasis. bennett didn't have a single catch, which is an absolutely terrible sign. he's also likely to be out of the NFL after the year. so realistically inglasis has to step up. or knox. or anybody. just somebody, please.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 5:02 pm
by NZB2323
I think that all of these points that Cutler will have bad chemistry with teammates is overblown. I don't think that Cutler has ever had problems with teammates. He may be a jerk, but he seems like a competitive jerk to me, kinda like Chris Paul.

He gets into feuds with players on other teams due to his competitive nature, and he got into a feud with Broncos management when he found out that they tried to trade him. He saw that as an act of betrayal. That's like a husband leaving a wife when he finds out that the wife tried to cheat on him; that doesn't make him a bad husband.

Also, I've never played on an organized football team, so maybe someone can answer this question for me: How can an offensive captain and a defensive captain clash? Has that ever happened before in the NFL? Urlacher and Cutler are never on the field at the same time, and Urlacher has to like Cutler compared to the QBs that he's had, and Cutler has to like the Bears defense in comparison to the defenses that he's had.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:59 am
by kozelkid
Well Urlacher had trouble with Benson and they were never on the field at the same time either...

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:58 pm
by tclg
Wow respect from the national media. I just hope our offensive line stays healthy

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:27 pm
by ChronicKerr
Risdon ranks us 19th

http://football.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ ... ower_poll/

19. Chicago Bears: Jay Cutler was probably worth the price, but it won’t show this season. An aging, paper-thin defense that isn’t anywhere close to being as good as hyped more than offsets what a legit franchise QB can do behind a moderately upgraded OL and with one proven legit NFL WR. Not having anyone to spell Matt Forte is a huge gamble with a great young talent.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:56 pm
by Chewie
ChronicKerr wrote:Risdon ranks us 19th

http://football.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ ... ower_poll/

19. Chicago Bears: Jay Cutler was probably worth the price, but it won’t show this season. An aging, paper-thin defense that isn’t anywhere close to being as good as hyped more than offsets what a legit franchise QB can do behind a moderately upgraded OL and with one proven legit NFL WR. Not having anyone to spell Matt Forte is a huge gamble with a great young talent.


Booooo, Icness !!! Don't show your face here anytime soon !

I'm the biggest Bears pessimist out there and I couldn't be more excited about this upcoming season.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:45 pm
by emperorjones
I was surprised Iceness had us so low in the NFC. Seen a lot of media picking us 8-8 since King's article. I'm guessing that if Iceness has us ranked 10th in the NFC he thinks we are a 7-9 team (since 2001 10th place in the division has been no better than 8-8 and 6-10 a few times with an average of 7-9 record). He pretty much thinks we would have been one of the worst teams in the league without the Cutler trade, or thinks Orton is better than Cutler?

Media types stating that we have no receivers so we will suck make no sense, since Orton threw to the same receivers. At least Iceness focused on the defense which is a legitimate concern.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:06 pm
by Cliff Levingston
emperorjones wrote:Media types stating that we have no receivers so we will suck make no sense, since Orton threw to the same receivers. At least Iceness focused on the defense which is a legitimate concern.

It's not nearly as big of a concern as most people make it out to be. People just look at the yards allowed which tells about 2% of the story. Some other considerations:

- 35% third down conversion percent against, 5th best in the league.
- 22 interceptions, 3rd best in the league.
- 10 fumbles recovered, 16th best in the league.
- 21.9 points per game against, 16th best in the league.
- 93.5 rush yards against, 5th best in the league.
- 3.4 yards per rush against, 3rd best in the league.
- 4.9 yards per play against, 6th best in the league.
- 33:27 average time on the field, 4th most in the league.

Not too shabby especially considering that hideous time on the field. You've got to figure, at the least, that our offense will be significantly improved and thus cut that time on the field for the defense down considerably.

But, the more that teams sleep on the Bears, the better.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:55 pm
by ChronicKerr
I hope you're right. I want the old Urlacher back this year.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:06 pm
by emperorjones
Cliff Levingston wrote:It's not nearly as big of a concern as most people make it out to be. People just look at the yards allowed which tells about 2% of the story. Some other considerations:

- 35% third down conversion percent against, 5th best in the league.
- 22 interceptions, 3rd best in the league.
- 10 fumbles recovered, 16th best in the league.
- 21.9 points per game against, 16th best in the league.
- 93.5 rush yards against, 5th best in the league.
- 3.4 yards per rush against, 3rd best in the league.
- 4.9 yards per play against, 6th best in the league.
- 33:27 average time on the field, 4th most in the league.

Not too shabby especially considering that hideous time on the field.


Great stats Cliff. The NFL needs a stat per minute breakdown for defenses. Or stat per play like an NBA per 48 min. Anyone know of any site that keeps something like that? It would show a true ranking of defenses. (I'm to lazy today to chart it :lol: )

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:31 pm
by Cliff Levingston
emperorjones wrote:Great stats Cliff. The NFL needs a stat per minute breakdown for defenses. Or stat per play like an NBA per 48 min. Anyone know of any site that keeps something like that? It would show a true ranking of defenses. (I'm to lazy today to chart it :lol: )

So yea, Cliff Levingston just spent the last hour or so doing something like that, then accidentally closed Excel without saving the damn spreadsheet. Grrr. Basically, Cliff Levingston put some "per 30 minutes of defense" stats in which tried to average the rate of production over exactly 30 minutes of defense, sort of like the Per 36 numbers for basketball.

You can get a good idea of how they'll affect the rankings. Because the Bears played well over 30 minutes of defense per game, the Per 30 stats are going to make their negative stats (like yards and points against) look better, but it's going to make the positive stats like takeaways and sacks looks worse. For example (going off memory), we were tied at 16th for points allowed per game, but Per 30 minutes, we were 9th. However, we were 21st in sacks per game, but Per 30, we were even worse than that.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:44 pm
by emperorjones
Wow. not to laugh at your misfortune Cliff but :lol: I hate it when that happens.
I think you're on to something with the "per 30 minutes of defense" stat. Really rubs in the sack stat - but I'm more confident in the defense overall if it moves our yards and points allowed into the top 10.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:20 pm
by Cliff Levingston
emperorjones wrote:Wow. not to laugh at your misfortune Cliff but :lol: I hate it when that happens.
I think you're on to something with the "per 30 minutes of defense" stat. Really rubs in the sack stat - but I'm more confident in the defense overall if it moves our yards and points allowed into the top 10.

Yea. Opened another spreadsheet quick (here at work) to look at it, then when i was done, i closed all of excel. It asked me if i wanted to save and i said no cause i didn't want to save the other one i had just opened, and the stats were lost.

The Per 30 minutes idea before was just per minute, but when you look at them, it doesn't really mean anything. Averaging everyone's rate of production to 30 minutes gives you some good numbers to look at in a meaningful. It was cool, when it lasted.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:22 pm
by Icness
You don't want to know where I'd have ranked you without the Cutler move.

Some of my rationale:
--I think Urlacher is real close to being done
--I don't trust Harris will ever be right again. I actually like Marcus Harrison but he's a complementary player, not an initiator, and Lovie's D demands a genuine initiator in the middle. Two of them really.
--I'm extremely concerned with Forte's anticipated workload that he will break down or lose effectiveness. No team has less behind their starting RB other than maybe Cleveland and Houston
--the pass rush worries me a lot. I do like Gilbert, but consider how little success Sed Ellis, Glenn Dorsey, Okoye, Carriker, and other DE/DT types have had as rookies. Expecting more than 2.5 sacks and about 25 tackles is overly optimistic. Marinelli might help, but he didn't do much for Shaun Cody, Cory Redding, or Alama-Francis. He's a teacher, not a motivator.
--safety is a real problem, esp. with the pasing attacks in the division. Add Favre and that probably gets worse.
--the chasm at WR
--Cutler's propensity for turning the ball over at the most inopportune times
--Orlando Pace's health, and to a lesser extent Kreutz's advancing age
--special teams regression, though that's minor
--I still believe Lovie is among the worst game-day coaches in the league. He hired the worst one to basically run his defense.

Like I said in the blurb, I think it's a short-term funk that will develop into something pretty special in 2010 and beyond--if Angelo decides to spend a little $$ on some defensive upgrades and a 3rd down back that are proven.

I think both GB and MIN have 10+ win potential and it's pretty certain one of them will fail in that quest. The Bears can maybe hit 10 wins if everything goes near-perfect, but I'm seeing 6-7 wins. For now anyways.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:29 pm
by emperorjones
Icness wrote:but I'm seeing 6-7 wins. For now anyways.


:o 6? :o

So without Cutler you gotta be thinking we would have dropped from 9 wins to like 3 or 4? :o

wow.


hmmmm...hey Chewie, I think we should make a sig/avatar bet with Icness :lol: :lol:

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm
by emperorjones
Icness wrote:You don't want to know where I'd have ranked you without the Cutler move.

Some of my rationale:
--I think Urlacher is real close to being done
--I don't trust Harris will ever be right again. I actually like Marcus Harrison but he's a complementary player, not an initiator, and Lovie's D demands a genuine initiator in the middle. Two of them really.
--I'm extremely concerned with Forte's anticipated workload that he will break down or lose effectiveness. No team has less behind their starting RB other than maybe Cleveland and Houston
--the pass rush worries me a lot. I do like Gilbert, but consider how little success Sed Ellis, Glenn Dorsey, Okoye, Carriker, and other DE/DT types have had as rookies. Expecting more than 2.5 sacks and about 25 tackles is overly optimistic. Marinelli might help, but he didn't do much for Shaun Cody, Cory Redding, or Alama-Francis. He's a teacher, not a motivator.
--safety is a real problem, esp. with the pasing attacks in the division. Add Favre and that probably gets worse.
--the chasm at WR
--Cutler's propensity for turning the ball over at the most inopportune times
--Orlando Pace's health, and to a lesser extent Kreutz's advancing age
--special teams regression, though that's minor
--I still believe Lovie is among the worst game-day coaches in the league. He hired the worst one to basically run his defense.

Like I said in the blurb, I think it's a short-term funk that will develop into something pretty special in 2010 and beyond--if Angelo decides to spend a little $$ on some defensive upgrades and a 3rd down back that are proven.


Short term funk until we - find a starting MLB, Game Changing Defensive Tackle, Backup RB, Pass Rusher, Starting Free Safety, fill the chasm at WR, teach Cutler some discipline in clutch situations, get a healthier LT, find a long term solution at Center, change the slowly drifting tide on Special teams and get a better game day coach. Develop into something special in 2010? You know that's next year? :wink:

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:00 pm
by Chewie
Icness wrote:--I think Urlacher is real close to being done

I think Urlacher was made less effective by putting him right on the line of scrimmage on virtually every play. What worse way to reduce the effectiveness of someone that covers sideline to sideline about as well as anyone in the league than taking away his space? Starting to show his age? Sure. Close to done? I don't think so.
--I don't trust Harris will ever be right again. I actually like Marcus Harrison but he's a complementary player, not an initiator, and Lovie's D demands a genuine initiator in the middle. Two of them really.

I'm with you here, actually. TH is more effective playing in doses to give his knee a break. Bears have good depth at DT, though, as they know they can't count on Harris : Dvoracek, Harrison, Adams, Gilbert, Idonije.
--I'm extremely concerned with Forte's anticipated workload that he will break down or lose effectiveness. No team has less behind their starting RB other than maybe Cleveland and Houston

Kevin Jones is now past the rehab stage on his knee - players that have ACL surgery typically need a year to a year and a half to get back to form and he'll be well past that point come season's start. If he hadn't shown he was now 100% healthy, they wouldn't have bothered resigning him and looked to the draft for a backup, IMO. We're really focusing on a lack of a stud backup as a reason to ding the Bears? I know the two-headed monster at RB has become en vogue - Titans/Panthers/Cowboys are good examples - but who really gives a crud that Thomas Sanders backed up Walter Payton?
--the pass rush worries me a lot. I do like Gilbert, but consider how little success Sed Ellis, Glenn Dorsey, Okoye, Carriker, and other DE/DT types have had as rookies. Expecting more than 2.5 sacks and about 25 tackles is overly optimistic. Marinelli might help, but he didn't do much for Shaun Cody, Cory Redding, or Alama-Francis. He's a teacher, not a motivator.

True - we might be relying on Marinelli too much here but the hope is that he can get Mark Anderson back to his rookie form and Lovie is on record as saying the Bears got the top free agent out there when they snagged Rod. Ogunleye is in his contract year and is probably one of those types that gets more motivated in that situation. Harris is a question mark as we discussed but - when he's right - he's among the best.
--safety is a real problem, esp. with the pasing attacks in the division. Add Favre and that probably gets worse.

True dat.
--the chasm at WR

Cutler got Royal's career going awfully quick. Why can't Hester/Bennett/Iglesias find similar success?
--Cutler's propensity for turning the ball over at the most inopportune times

Meh. Nit-picking.
--Orlando Pace's health, and to a lesser extent Kreutz's advancing age

OL is better than last year. You'd prefer St. Clair ??
--special teams regression, though that's minor

It's going to be worse than last year? Why ?
--I still believe Lovie is among the worst game-day coaches in the league. He hired the worst one to basically run his defense.

Yeah - saw the bad calls myself last year. Will reserve judgement on Lovie's role as defensive coordinator. If he gets the linebackers off the line and the corners to play closer to it, that's a start right there.

I'm seeing 6-7 wins.

Clip and save.

Re: SI's King ranks Bears #4 overall

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:02 pm
by Chewie
emperorjones wrote:
hmmmm...hey Chewie, I think we should make a sig/avatar bet with Icness :lol: :lol:


Word.

Like fish in a barrel.

You game, Jeff ? 6 wins or less, you pick our avatars. 7 or more, we own yours.