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Chicago Bears (6 games)
2008: Kyle Orton, 3-3, 1386 yds, 8 TDs, 4 INTs, 87.6 rating
2009: Jay Cutler, 3-3, 1451 yds, 11 TDs, 10 INTs, 86.0 rating

In Chicago, Orton was better than Cutler.

Denver Broncos (6 games)
2008: Jay Cutler, 4-2, 1694 yds, 12 TDs, 5 INTs, 94.8 rating
2009: Kyle Orton, 6-0, 1465 yds, 9 TDs, 1 INT, 100.1 rating

In Denver, Orton is better than Cutler.

Red Zone Efficiency (last 2 years)
Kyle Orton: 20 TDs, 1 Int
Jay Cutler: 24 TDs, 7 Ints

Orton still beats him statistically and in wins/losses.

Tell me again by what metric is Jay Cutler the better NFL quarterback? The fact he throws more often? Tell me why Kyle Orton sucks and Cutler is great because he has the strongest spiral in the league and can throw it 70 yards on his back foot. I'm waiting for it. Cutler is just like Rex Grossman. And we gave up two first rounders and Orton for him.

Chicago Bears (6 games)
2008: Kyle Orton (Playing behind a better offensive line than this year and actually having a running game), 3-3, 1386 yds, 8 TDs, 4 INTs, 87.6 rating
2009: Jay Cutler (Playing behind probably the worst offensive line in the NFL and having no running game whatsoever), 3-3, 1451 yds, 11 TDs, 10 INTs, 86.0 rating

Fixed

In Chicago, Orton was better than Cutler.

Yeah based on 6 games according to you.

Bullflip wrote: Cutler is just like Rex Grossman.

No, no he's not.

And we gave up two first rounders and Orton for him.

And they gave us a 5th rounder (Johnny Knox) in the deal.

And you're comparing two completely different situations. Jay Cutler in Chicago has no time to throw the football whatsoever and doesn't have the weapons that Kyle Orton has in Denver. Kyle Orton fits the system Denver is running (throw 5 yard passes and let the receivers do the rest of the work.)

I can compliment Orton on his inability to throw interceptions but then again, when you're throwing 5 yard passes with all the time in the world, you shouldn't throw interceptions.

Let's be honest, if Kyle Orton was still our QB, we'd have 1 win at this point. Cutler won us 2 games (Pittsburgh and Seattle) that Orton would have never won. We'll see how Orton does in the 2nd half of this season. He was awful the 2nd half of last season.

I think Jay Cutler is unlucky. Any team he goes to has a piece of **** defense. ("ZOMG IT'S BECAUSE HE TURNS OVER THE BALL AND THE DEFENSE GETS TIRED!") He didn't throw his first pick today until it was 28-0. At that point, throw away.

Jay Cutler is really the least of my concerns with this team. We need an offensive line, we need a running back, we need a new coaching staff (Kyle Orton's success in Denver just shows that our coaches are useless), we need better cornerbacks, we need a defensive line that can rush the passer (saw none of that today), and we need a good WR here (WR's have been better than expected but still not good enough).

And if we're going to play that game:
Jay Cutler 2008:
8-8, 4,526 passing yards, 25 TD's, 18 INT's, 86.0 QB Rating (Pro Bowl)

Kyle Orton 2008:
9-7, 2,972 passing yards, 18 TD's, 12 INT's, 79.6 QB Rating

Cutler is better.

I'm pretty sure Cutler will surpass Kyle Orton's 2008 stats here. It's not the QB, it's the team.

I knew somehow the defense giving up 45 points, 30 first downs, near 450 total yards and the fact the ground game had 35 yards, Jay Cutler would be to blame. Can we please stop comparing him and Kyle Orton? Orton has a top 5 OL, top 5 receiver corp, a top 5 defense and an offensive coach who knows what he is doing. Cutler has a terrible line, receivers who can't get open or stretch the field, a running game that could block a corpse and a defense that has given up 24 points a game. I mean seriously, HOW can you look at the field and say "yeah, QB is the problem"? Cutler's first pick:
Bengals 28
Bears 0

I don't think he changed the game with that one.

And it begins...

DanTown8587 wrote:I knew somehow the defense giving up 45 points, 30 first downs, near 450 total yards and the fact the ground game had 35 yards, Jay Cutler would be to blame. Can we please stop comparing him and Kyle Orton? Orton has a top 5 OL, top 5 receiver corp, a top 5 defense and an offensive coach who knows what he is doing. Cutler has a terrible line, receivers who can't get open or stretch the field, a running game that could block a corpse and a defense that has given up 24 points a game. I mean seriously, HOW can you look at the field and say "yeah, QB is the problem"? Cutler's first pick:
Bengals 28
Bears 0

I don't think he changed the game with that one.

Yeah Cutler should be the least of our concerns. Put Tom Brady or Drew Brees behind this offensive line and give them these WR's and this ground game and they wouldn't perform much better. Not comparing Cutler to those guys but it's a given fact that the best QB's in the NFL have a good offensive line to protect them while the Bears have arguably the worst offensive line in the National Football League. Just use Matt Cassel as an example.

I'd like to know why we traded for Cutler in the first place if we aren't going to use his arm. This offense looks the same as it did last year with Orton. How about trying to throw the ball downfield for once. Or maybe this is too difficult for a Ron Turner offense. But then again, it could go back to Cutler not having time to throw the football or the WR's inability to get open.

I dont know what people where expecting, he is a gun slinger, and people want **** Payton maning, you get what you paid for people, the guy threw more than 1 pick per game last season, the diference here was there was suposed to be a running game and Defense backing Jay up, but so far, there realy has only been the oposite.

If Jay were pulling this crap with the defense, o-line, running back, and special teams that Rex Grossman had in '06, I might be harder on him. Unfortunately for him he got traded to a team where the coach and GM have no sense of urgency and are blind to the palace that is crumbling all around them. The defense is worse than last year with Orton, the offensive line is worse than last year with Orton, the running game is worse, and Orton has top 5 talent in Denver around him.

SportsWorld wrote:I'd like to know why we traded for Cutler in the first place if we aren't going to use his arm. This offense looks the same as it did last year with Orton. How about trying to throw the ball downfield for once. Or maybe this is too difficult for a Ron Turner offense. But then again, it could go back to Cutler not having time to throw the football or the WR's inability to get open.

Sportsworld's on the money. This is still an Orton-friendly offense. Three step drop, dink-dunk, and an occasional shot downfield. If we weren't going to take advantage of Cutler's arm, why trade for him?

If the team continuing to struggle means we get a new coaching staff in here (or at least offensive coordinator) then so be it. Our vanilla offense couldn't be any more predictable even though Turner isn't to blame for the porous offensive line and bad defense. Down 31-0 and we didn't have a single gadget type play to at least try to see if we can make something happen.

Anyway, blowouts in any sports are pretty much the least indicative way of evaluating teams. The Bears aren't that bad and the Bengals aren't that good. It was just one of those days. Last year we got blown out by Green Bay and ended up 3 games better than them.

The Bears have a nice match up next week to try to right the ship.

Chewie wrote:

SportsWorld wrote:I'd like to know why we traded for Cutler in the first place if we aren't going to use his arm. This offense looks the same as it did last year with Orton. How about trying to throw the ball downfield for once. Or maybe this is too difficult for a Ron Turner offense. But then again, it could go back to Cutler not having time to throw the football or the WR's inability to get open.

Sportsworld's on the money. This is still an Orton-friendly offense. Three step drop, dink-dunk, and an occasional shot downfield. If we weren't going to take advantage of Cutler's arm, why trade for him?

Because Orton wasnt the basis for the offense we just blamed him for it when in fact this is Ron Turners offense . I remember last spring all the excitement over Turner remarking he as gonna be able to dust off some plays in the playbook. Well how is exactly is that working out and can he at least allow the tv studio to to put a yellow haze on the offense when the news plays are being ran so Ill know .

Ive always said that I felt both Orton and Jay are good Qb's and I still do . The offense was not that way because of Orton but because of the people surrounding Orton.

Orton dealt with the same things last year and found a way to work around it .So far this year the difference between last year team and this years team is last years team had an identity and NO Johnny Knox .Just imagine where we would be the first quarter of the season without that guy.

Jays needs talent around him just as Orton needed talent around him but 10 points was not good enough for Orton last year and it shouldnt be good enough for jay this year either .

Going into this game Forte was about 35 yards off his last years pace . He wasnt some big time back on the ground last year he was good but not great and what set him apart was his pass catching ability . So when people say no running game when in fact we are getting the same type of up and down production as always from Forte but Cutler doesnt use him as much in the air as Orton did and thats the difference.

If they lose next week, Lovie ought to start packing. I know "it's only one game", but I think it's obvious to most observers that the Agelo/Lovie/Turner project is failing. They need to clean house from GM on down.

Kid Icarus wrote:If they lose next week, Lovie ought to start packing. I know "it's only one game", but I think it's obvious to most observers that the Agelo/Lovie/Turner project is failing. They need to clean house from GM on down.

A loss against the Browns and it's tank time to go for a high pick in the 2010 draft.

Wait a second......

I want to take you back to this past summer, when all the talk on The Score and Mac/Jurko/Harry and even when Carmen took over was, Jay Cutler can make the same cast better than Kyle Orton...and the Bears have a better OL, better running game, and better receivers than last year. That was the near-unanimous consensus in Bears land, that Cutler was good enough to make the same offense--Ron Turner's offense--much better. Now that's it's clearly not, doesn't Cutler deserve at least some of the blame?

FWIW I think Orton needed the change of scenery and a coaching staff that believed in him. He's not the reason they're undefeated, but he is the reason why they haven't lost yet if that makes any sense. Can you say the same about Cutler?

So if this was a Orton-friendly offense, why did we get rid of Orton? We don't need a interception-prone gunslinger. Now the Bears have to totally revamp their offense to fit Cutler. Now, there are a bunch of people twittering his account "You suck," "Get out of Chicago," and "Can't believe the Bears signed you to an extension." I just think it's downhill from this season.

Bullflip wrote:So if this was a Orton-friendly offense, why did we get rid of Orton? We don't need a interception-prone gunslinger. Now the Bears have to totally revamp their offense to fit Cutler. Now, there are a bunch of people twittering his account "You suck," "Get out of Chicago," and "Can't believe the Bears signed you to an extension." I just think it's downhill from this season.

Cliff Levingston would hate to see us pass up an opportunity at Cutler because or thoroughly mediocre-at-best offensive coordinator calls a more conservative, Orton friendly game. If the offense continues to struggle, maybe they'll use that as an excuse to can Turner and bring someone else in.

Everyone should've known that Cutler is prone to throwing picks as he likes to thrown down field even when nothing is there. Cliff Levingston will still take him 10 times out of 10 over Orton. What we didn't know was that the offensive line as a whole would be this bad. Cliff Levingston is sure that some or most people didn't think they'd be great, but not this bad. That's affected Forte's production quite a bit as well.

Once again, don't pay too much attention to a blowout, whether you're on the receiving or giving end. They're not too indicative of what's actually going on; we're not that bad of a team. Cliff Levingston didn't see many people making arguments for why we'll be a superbowl team before the season and nothing has really changed.

For for fun, Cliff Levingston will offer this. If Tommie Harris is as bad as people make him out to be, why did our defensive line show up with their worst game in a long time when Tommie was out?

Cliff Levingston wrote:

For for fun, Cliff Levingston will offer this. If Tommie Harris is as bad as people make him out to be, why did our defensive line show up with their worst game in a long time when Tommie was out?

The Cincy OL had a lot to do with that. They are a bad matchup for a Cover-2 scheme because they attack the defenders even in pass protect. It gets them in a lot of trouble against 3-4 fronts and teams that know how to blitz, but against the Bears (and other Tampa-2 relic teams) they're a nightmare. Andrew Whitworth devours guys that can't go inside him. The Bengals correctly figured that Palmer could handle the blitzes by delivering the ball quickly against overmatched DB trying to play man behind the blitz after years of playing zone with lots of LB help.

Tommie is a tough dilemma. He's clearly slipping with no chance of recovery, but he's also still probably the best player up front. I'm real interested to see what becomes of him this offseason.

Icness wrote:I want to take you back to this past summer, when all the talk on The Score and Mac/Jurko/Harry and even when Carmen took over was, Jay Cutler can make the same cast better than Kyle Orton...and the Bears have a better OL, better running game, and better receivers than last year. That was the near-unanimous consensus in Bears land, that Cutler was good enough to make the same offense--Ron Turner's offense--much better. Now that's it's clearly not, doesn't Cutler deserve at least some of the blame?

FWIW I think Orton needed the change of scenery and a coaching staff that believed in him. He's not the reason they're undefeated, but he is the reason why they haven't lost yet if that makes any sense. Can you say the same about Cutler?

FWIW, I think you're picking on us since we're one of two team forum groups that actually post anything on RealGM! Sure, Cutler does deserve some of the blame - there have been some bone-headed interceptions that were purely his fault to be sure. And I was among the chorus that said Cutler would make for a better running game. In hindsight, I'd say I put way too much faith in this offensive line and our coaching staff's ability to build an offense around a QB with a cannon arm. I can see now this line is complete garbage and Turner hasn't adjusted the offense to fit his quarterback.

Happy ?