2009 NFL Draft Thread (6th overall pick)

[PhilipNelsonFan]

After an unsuccessful 4-11-1 season, Cincy has the 6th overall pick to work with and probably even more. Post draft ideas[, priority lists and prospect names here.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

To borrow from a previous post Icness made, for a little reference:

The Bengals could look a whole lot different next season...
Stacy Andrews will be gone, replaced by Anthony Collins at RT. Collins has outplayed expectations at LT but his future is on the right.

Ced Benson will be back, but he's probably the only RB on the roster or IR who will be back. An orange birdie tells me they are strongly considering drafting two RBs, or at least one and bringing in some UDFAs. Doesn't look like their 1st round pick will be an RB though. Expect LT with the 1st rounder unless Aaron Curry is on the board, then they have a decision to make.

Both TJ and Ocho Cinco sure look like they're on the way out. 100% guarantee that at least one will be gone, and bet on it being Housh--his league-wide perception is much better than Ocho CInco.

Levi Jones is thinking about retirement. IMO it's a ploy to get out of Cincy, but that's just a semi-educated guess.

The entire LB corps is going to be shaken up. It might be some of the same guys in different spots, or it might be Keith Rivers and 2-3 new guys starting with him.

Early indications are the Bengals are going to be quite active in trying to acquire many draft picks, which could mean an auctioing off of Ocho CInco, Housh, and a couple other semi-useful guys (Thornton, Geathers).

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Prospects I think the Bengals will look at with the 6th overall pick:

-Eugene Monroe/Andre Smith/Michael Oher. None of these offensive tackles will realistically fall lower on the board than 10th, even the underwhelming (but athletically gifted) Oher.

-Malcom Jenkins/Chris Wells/James Laurinaitis. Ohio State Buckeyes get priority over other players because the .005% of Mike Brown's brain that functions understands that small-market fans love local players. The only player who doesn't fit an obvious need is Jenkins, but he frees up Johnathan Joseph to be traded for a later-round draft choice, which wouldn't entirely be a bad move. Plus, he could be the best player available at that draft slot, and isn't that what we all really want. For my heart's sake, I hope it's not Beanie, because I fear another Chris Perry.

-Aaron Curry. I haven't seen enough of the linebacker from Wake Forest to truly make a claim, but everyone in the scouting world has him as a top-5 selection.

If I had to rate them in terms of likelihood, it'd probably be Curry, Wells and whichever of Monroe/Smith isn't selected in the top 5 (in that order). That defense just needs fixing, but I don't think Mike Brown's ego could hold up well enough without letting Beanie pass by, at a time when Cincy is STARVING for RB help.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Here's something that I would try to cook up if I could make it work:

-Trade the 6th overall pick, a fourth-round pick and a fifth-round pick to a team drafting in the range of 15th overall for that pick, a 2nd-rounder and a third-rounder.
-Trade T.J. Houshmandzadeh and John Thornton for a 2nd-round pick and a third-round pick.
-Trade Chad for a third-round pick (someone WILL come calling).
-Trade a sixth-rounder and next year's third-rounder for an extra third-round pick.

So that gives us a first-rounder, three second-rounders and four third-rounders. What do I do with these picks?

1st-rounder: Alex Mack, C, California. The Bengals need to be rebuilt along the line and it starts with the weakest link: Eric Ghiacuic, by far the worst at his position among starters in the NFL.

2nd-rounder: Jason Phillips, LB, TCU. If Mike Zimmer is retained and the Bengals still think about using 3-4 looks (doubtful), they need to draft higher-caliber inside linebackers. Phillips isn't the best, but he's NFL-caliber.

2nd-rounder: Max Unger, OL, Oregon. A bias pick, to be sure, but Unger can play every position on the line and has started 51 consecutive games with no injury issues. He'll probably be a guard but he could also be a third T if need be.

2nd-rounder: Clay Matthews, LB, USC. Yes, he did not start on his college team, but his instincts are very good and he has the size; he was just stuck behind a veteran group last year. The Rivers connection could also prove beneficial, and his pedigree is top-notch.

3rd-rounder: Shonn Greene, RB, Iowa. He won't start right away, and learning as he goes could prove especially meaningful.

3rd-rounder: Trevor Canfield, OG, Cincinnati. Another piece to the OL puzzle, and bonus points for being a hometown prospect, which Cincy likes to grab.

3rd-rounder: Chase Coffman, TE, Missouri. Ugly year for tight ends, but he could have an impact similar to Greg Olsen in Chicago, which we be a huge boost from the nothing the Bengals currently get.

3rd-rounder: Sammie Stroughter, WR, Oregon State. We just traded away two WRs, yes, but the more important thing is that Cincinnati doesn't have a quality kick and punt returner. Stroughter is that and solid WR to boot.

Any sort of feedback would be appreciated.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Anyone open to the idea of using the 38th overall pick (2nd-rounder) on Tim Tebow?

I've been playing around with it in my head and I think he'd be a good fit on the Bengals. As a quarterback, he'd need 2-3 years of development, which he'd get sitting behind Carson. And in the meantime, we know Tebow can play just about any other offensive position (TE among them), so putting him out there opens up the possibility of gadget plays. He'd also be the second-most physical TE on the roster outside of the awful Reggie Kelly.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Another draft/trade scenario (primarily offensive):

-TRADE the Bengals' 2nd-round pick (38th overall) and a 2010 1st-round pick for a pick somewhere between 16-20.
-TRADE Chad for a 2nd-round pick (55-60).
-TRADE the Bengals' 5th-round pick and a 2010 4th-round pick for a 4th-rounder.

1st round (6th overall): Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss. And there's your cornerstone at LT to complement Anthony Collins on the other side. Of the Big Four tackle prospects (A. Smith, Oher, Monroe, J. Smith) Oher is the most talented, but he also requires the most coaching. I have little reason to doubt that the Bengals will give it to him.

1st round (low teens): Alex Mack, C, Cal. It bears repeating just how bad the Bengals are at the center position: Bad. Mack is an even better center prospect than Nick Mangold in 2005 and he could have a similar or greater impact.

2nd round (low 50s): Max Unger, G, Oregon. I'd love to meet the Bengals fan who cries foul at the offensive line of Oher/Unger/Mack/Whitworth/Collins. That could be among the league's best in a very short timespan.

3rd round: Sammie Stroughter, WR, Oregon State. Again, I believe he's getting slept on by some people. Great receiver and kick returner, which covers two Bengals needs.

4th round: Andre Brown, RB, North Carolina State.

4th round: Jeremiah Johnson, RB, Oregon. Draft two solid running backs, then put them in competition with one another. The Bengals will be better for it.

6th round: Bear Pascoe, TE, Fresno State. Large human being with soft hands and blocking ability. Might be better than Reggie Kelly right now. Because, seriously, Reggie Kelly is awful.

7th round: Kevin Huber, P, Cincinnati. He's the best in the draft, and Kyle Larson's one of the NFL's worst at the position.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

And now, a defensive-oriented mock scenario (even though I'd recommend going with the offensive talent in this draft). Perform the first two trades as before, and let's do this.

1st round (6th overall): B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College. If the Minnesota Vikings had any aptitude at drafting skill-position players (Purple Jesus exempted), they'd be the best team in the NFL. They know that you build from the lines, and the Bengals' D-line showed, again, that it isn't up to snuff yet. Pat Sims and Jason Shirley are not ready to contribute significantly. This pick would be Aaron Curry, but I just cannot fathom him falling out of the top five at this point. I wonder if Curry has a shot at going first overall...?

1st round (low teens): Clint Sintim, LB, Virginia. The best OLB outside of Curry in this draft and an incredibly skilled player to mirror Rivers on the outside.

2nd round (low 50s): Connor Barwin, DE, Cincinnati. You mean he's a Justin Smith clone who also can play some offense? Mercy!

3rd round: DeAngelo Smith, CB, Cincinnati. The secondary is still really talented, but it's still not very deep. Smith will go a long way toward helping secure that, and he might even push Johnathon Joseph for a starting spot. That might say more about Joseph than Smith, but either way it's a positive sign.

4th round: Zach Follett, OLB, Cal. An early pick of mine for Steal of the Draft. Very heady player who finishes every time and is not intimidated by fast or physical players. Possible 3-4 ILB as well.

5th round: Pannel Egboh, DE, Stanford. Very talented player who needs to be coached up. Not the fastest DE out there but he can get physical on a tackle. Probably best suited to RDE and should spell the end of the bust known as Frostee Rucker.

6th round: Michael Tauiliili, ILB, Duke. Arguably the most talented player to come out of Duke since the turn of the century. His senior-season stats: 130 tackles, 14 TFL, 5 PBUs and 4 INTs. Yikes. Has a character red flag (not an arrest) but could be a sleeper.

7th round: Kevin Huber, P, Cincinnati. Because OMG Kyle Larson you are horrible please find another team to play with preferably in the CFL.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Also, here's an important resource for any draftniks: The NFL Draft Point Value Chart, which is a handy trade calculator.

Once again, if anyone's actually out there, I'd love to see some feedback on players, scenarios, et. al. regarding the Bengals' draft.

[Cohiba13]

I love the Primarily offensive scenario, even though out D-line is probably the worst in the league. I like the idea of drafting three O-linemen who can anchor the line for the next 5 years. Give Carson some time like he had in 2006 and he'll be back to his old self.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Good stuff, Cohiba. I agree for the most part. The defense needs a talent infusion like none other, but the offensive line needs one just as badly. Pretty much every starter is realistically a backup at best on a good line outside of Anthony Collins.

Speaking of Collins, what if the team decided he was the future LT? That could open them up to make a move to get a lot of picks. For instance, No. 6 overall and a 2010 4th-rounder for Philly's first-round picks, third-rounder and fourth-rounder. There's quite a bit of nice mid-round talent (especially running back!) to be explored. Plus, that would allow for Mack at 21 and someone like Eben Britton (if we're still on an offensive line binge) to go at 28.

[Cohiba13]

Good stuff, Cohiba. I agree for the most part. The defense needs a talent infusion like none other, but the offensive line needs one just as badly. Pretty much every starter is realistically a backup at best on a good line outside of Anthony Collins.

Speaking of Collins, what if the team decided he was the future LT? That could open them up to make a move to get a lot of picks. For instance, No. 6 overall and a 2010 4th-rounder for Philly's first-round picks, third-rounder and fourth-rounder. There's quite a bit of nice mid-round talent (especially running back!) to be explored. Plus, that would allow for Mack at 21 and someone like Eben Britton (if we're still on an offensive line binge) to go at 28.

I'm still kind of shocked at how bad we were offensively this year. And it's not like we don't have talent, though losing Palmer doesn't help. But it really seems like a perfect draft to build the O-line with the solid prospects that should be available in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. We'll probably end up with 3-4 WRs though knowing marv.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

This is such an awful year for WRs. If I was in Mike Brown's shoes I wouldn't even bother working out a single one.

If anything, we should be lucky that the Bengals got to work with Unger, Mack and Wood at the Senior Bowl and were able to spend a good amount of time with them. With any luck, this leads to smarter managerial decisions.

[Cohiba13]

As long as out first pick is 300+ pounds, I won't be disappointed in the pick.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

So, about how we should really draft a center next year...

Lewis is also encouraged by two young centers that missed last season with injuries in 2007, seventh-round draft pick Dan Santucci and waiver-wire pickup Kyle Cook.

"We drafted a tackle a year ago if we didn't have Stacy," Lewis said of Collins. "There's going to be somebody somewhere that doesn't have any experience. Dan Santucci and Kyle Cook have had two years in the building. That doesn't mean they don't have experience. They've been here for two years. At some point you have to let some guys play. That's the great thing about the word 'experience.' You don't get it until you play."

Lewis said he's comfortable with the ability of Santucci and Cook to make calls and recalled that the Colts once signed Santucci away from their practice squad before the Bengals got him back.

just doesn't quite say all that must be said.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Cincy received four compensatory selections for this draft, including a 3rd, a 6th and two 7th rounders. Let the debate begin.

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7571

The Bengals now have 11 picks in next month's draft after receiving the maximum four compensatory picks Monday and the extra third-rounder gives them five picks in the first 106 selections.

The Bengals and the Titans led the way with four with Cincinnati picking up a third-rounder that is the 98th pick, a sixth that is the 209th and two seventh-rounders that are the 249th and 252nd picks.

"We thought for sure we would get three picks and we weren't sure we would get four and we got four barely," said Bengals president Mike Brown. "The third-round pick is a valuable pick."

The Bengals can't trade that third-rounder, but they could trade the 70th pick early in the third round if they wanted to trade up, knowing they've got something at the bottom of the round.

"We'll have to see what is there to trade up for," Brown said.

The Bengals got the picks in exchange for losing in free agency last year defensive end Justin Smith, linebacker Landon Johnson, defensive lineman Bryan Robinson, and center Alex Stepanovich. The Bengals also lost safety Madieu Williams, but in the complicated formula based largely on playing time and pay, his loss appeared to be cancelled out by the Bengals' acquisition of Titans defensive end Antwan Odom.

The last two extra third-rounders have meant a lot on the depth chart. Last year the Bengals picked up Florida wide receiver Andre Caldwell with the 97th pick they got for losing Eric Steinbach and he's being groomed for a major role this year with the loss of T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

In 2004 they got linebacker Landon Johnson at No. 96 in exchange for Takeo Spikes and Johnson ended up leading the team in tackling his final two seasons.

Last year, Cincinnati spent compensatory selections on WR Andre Caldwell, TE Matt Sherry, OLB Angelo Craig and WR Mario Urrutia...and got almost zero production out of the entire lot. Of course, the third-rounder is huge, as that could fill a major need, but don't sleep on the sixth-rounder, as the number of contributors in that region of the draft is increasing, though most of them tend to be role-players.

[Cohiba13]

Cincy received four compensatory selections for this draft, including a 3rd, a 6th and two 7th rounders. Let the debate begin.

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7571

The Bengals now have 11 picks in next month's draft after receiving the maximum four compensatory picks Monday and the extra third-rounder gives them five picks in the first 106 selections.

The Bengals and the Titans led the way with four with Cincinnati picking up a third-rounder that is the 98th pick, a sixth that is the 209th and two seventh-rounders that are the 249th and 252nd picks.

"We thought for sure we would get three picks and we weren't sure we would get four and we got four barely," said Bengals president Mike Brown. "The third-round pick is a valuable pick."

The Bengals can't trade that third-rounder, but they could trade the 70th pick early in the third round if they wanted to trade up, knowing they've got something at the bottom of the round.

"We'll have to see what is there to trade up for," Brown said.

The Bengals got the picks in exchange for losing in free agency last year defensive end Justin Smith, linebacker Landon Johnson, defensive lineman Bryan Robinson, and center Alex Stepanovich. The Bengals also lost safety Madieu Williams, but in the complicated formula based largely on playing time and pay, his loss appeared to be cancelled out by the Bengals' acquisition of Titans defensive end Antwan Odom.

The last two extra third-rounders have meant a lot on the depth chart. Last year the Bengals picked up Florida wide receiver Andre Caldwell with the 97th pick they got for losing Eric Steinbach and he's being groomed for a major role this year with the loss of T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

In 2004 they got linebacker Landon Johnson at No. 96 in exchange for Takeo Spikes and Johnson ended up leading the team in tackling his final two seasons.

Last year, Cincinnati spent compensatory selections on WR Andre Caldwell, TE Matt Sherry, OLB Angelo Craig and WR Mario Urrutia...and got almost zero production out of the entire lot. Of course, the third-rounder is huge, as that could fill a major need, but don't sleep on the sixth-rounder, as the number of contributors in that region of the draft is increasing, though most of them tend to be role-players.

A centre would be greaaaat. or a RB. Probably a half dozen other positions too. Blah I'm having a hard time looking forward to the draft because I figure we're just gonna mess it up.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

This team just has so many holes. It could, conceivably, solve most of them in this draft, but really the front office just needs to pace itself. If it just focuses on trying to fill a few holes, it'll do just fine.

That said...let's prioritize here. The offensive line should probably be at the top, since Carson's coming off a season-ending injury. Next should be linebacker, so we can be 2/3 of the way to a good defense. Then RB, because outside of Benson there is literally no talent.

Beyond that, there are some tough decisions to be made.

[Icness]

My ideal Bengals draft:
1st--Andre Smith, T, Alabama
2nd--Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee or Jarron Gilbert, DE/DT, San Jose State
3rd--Eric Wood, C, Louisville or Jonathan Luigs, C/G, Arkansas
3rd--Cedric Peerman, RB, Virginia
4th--Cornelius Ingram, TE, Florida
5th--Michael Hamlin, S, Clemson
6th--Jaimie Thomas, G, Maryland
6th--Donald Washington, CB, Ohio State
7th--DeAndre Levy, LB, Wisconsin
7th--Jamarko Simmons, WR, Western Michigan
7th--Mark Parson, CB, Ohio

I'm almost 100% certain the first three picks will all be spent in the trenches. One will be a tackle/guard (they are toying with moving Whitworth to T, which I wholeheartedly endorse), one will be a center, and one will be a DT or DE who can rush the passer. What order they take them is TBD. I can tell you that if Alex Mack falls into range where they can offer their 2nd and a later pick (somewhere in the mid-20s), they'll pull the trigger on that deal. Internally the team has listed center and DE as the top priorities. The working draft of my next mock has the following picks:
#6--Everette Brown
#38--Duke Robinson
#70--Jonathan Luigs
#98--Deangelo Smith
#106--Jason Williams, OLB, Western Illinois
But that is subject to wild changes as I complete it over the weekend. The 4-8 range is a giant CF in my mind right now...

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Everyone should read this PFT piece, then read the comments below. Absolute gold.

I'm almost 100% certain the first three picks will all be spent in the trenches. One will be a tackle/guard (they are toying with moving Whitworth to T, which I wholeheartedly endorse), one will be a center, and one will be a DT or DE who can rush the passer. What order they take them is TBD. I can tell you that if Alex Mack falls into range where they can offer their 2nd and a later pick (somewhere in the mid-20s), they'll pull the trigger on that deal. Internally the team has listed center and DE as the top priorities.

I think I speak for Bengals Nation when I say...YAY. Holy f**king s**t, imagine what this defense could do with real quarterback pressure after being in the top half of the league last year. And this offensive line could look nice in two years, so it's a worthy investment.

I also think Alex Mack is a pipe dream for Cincinnati. They got outmuscled for Sedrick Ellis last year, and while this is completely cynical I just don't see them doing what must be done to jump the Vikings at 22 and take Mack. (That, and I would love to see the VIkings with Alex Mack; superb fit IMO.) If they could...I mean, uh, wow.

Given the Icness ideal mock, I'd take Gilbert in the second and Wood in the third. (Ic, I still don't trust Tennessee defensive players! EXCEPT ERIC BERRY, who looks like a top-5 pick next year.) As presently constructed, the DT spots are filled with pluggers, but Gilbert's versatility just looks better for the future of this franchise. My Big Ten/ACC scouting is not strong, but I can't argue with that mock draft. Only change I'd make is to turn Ingram into another running back, but having another competent TE would give the Bengals exactly two. (The other: Utecht.)

[PhilipNelsonFan]

James Walker ingests barbiturates, and writes a blog post:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-2-312/Are-the-Bengals-a-2009-sleeper-.html

Not draft news, per se, but something to discuss.