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OT: Carmelo Available

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Post#61 » by moofs » Sun May 11, 2008 4:02 pm

jove9 wrote:My only (and very uninformed) guess is that the team realized that it is getting no where as currently constructed, it is over the cap, and is out of tradable assets. Trading Melo might be a way to add a few quality role players to an Iverson and Camby-led team.


Except Iverson is 33 and Camby is 34 next season, also Martin the MIA is 31. and those 3 guys take up 43 million until Iverson goes off the books after next season, then 23 + Iverson (if resigned) after that for another year. If you're looking to build around those guys, you have some issues, especially considering you'd be looking for someone(s) within 25% of 13 million and likely some draft picks that wouldn't start doing you any good until after Iverson and Camby dropped like rocks or retired. With Nene (who?) taking up another 9 million for 4 years, I can see Melo having complained in the background to get out because he sees his core disintegrating and doesn't want to waste his prime years on a rebuilding effort. He's still basically a fresh draftee though, so that perspective doesn't quite make much sense (i.e. it's what he'd be doing as a lottery pick), and I wouldn't expect him to take care of the whole thing in private (although it wouldn't quite shock me). He's also already an all-star though, and a "very good" scorer (ppg/% numbers-wise at least), so he does have some leeway, as he could really hit Denver hard by pulling a Carter (followed by Iverson and Anthony getting into a 15 man shootout in the parking garage after a 128-72 home loss to the Oklahoma City Sonics where Anthony scored 12 points while letting Durant go for a career high 46).

As far as the trade? No thanks, just don't like 'Melo. I'd almost rather have Josh Howard.

: shudder :
NOT MANY OBVIOUSLY GOOD OPTIONS THIS OFFSEASON ARE THERE?

jove9 wrote:As I said before, if you're Denver, trading Melo makes absolutely no sense and they probably won't get fair value for him in return. T-Mac, Jackson's contract, a pick, and maybe one of our young role players (Brooks? Scola? Landry?!? Shoot me now for mentioning his name!) would come close to fair, though.


:jawdrop:

Scola + TMac for Melo + whoever? Ouch to us. It'd have to be Camby, and that would still be a bad trade. Landry or Brooks I'd be more open to, Landry almost entirely because of his knee. Would rather the deal involve someone other than all three of them though.

Is this the first time you've actively promote/defend a player trade before? Not that you're doing a bad job of it, just that I can't remember you doing it before.

TMU, how is this pace factor figured, where is it available, and what all does it represent?
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Post#62 » by tmac4real » Sun May 11, 2008 4:06 pm

jove9 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



First you don't do your research before posting, and now you're not reading some of the previous posts in this thread.

:nonono:

Some of your concerns have been addressed elsewhere, so I'm not going to bother repeating myself. I'll give you a hint on where to look though: read page 1.


you should repeat your concerns to yourself again and then see if any of it makes enough sense to trade Mac for Melo.
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Post#63 » by Zubby » Sun May 11, 2008 4:23 pm

^^ Public Service Announcement... anyone with:
Tracy,
McGrady,
T-Mac, or any other form of Tracy McGrady in their user name should refrain from post in this thread, because they just aren't bringing any substance to this argument...
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Post#64 » by jove9 » Sun May 11, 2008 4:32 pm

tmac4real wrote:you should repeat your concerns to yourself again and then see if any of it makes enough sense to trade Mac for Melo.


So you've given up completely on trying to make a reasoned argument, have you?

Good job borrowing words from me to make a comeback. I bet you tried to pick out the "big words," didn't you? Hey, "concerns" isn't considered a big word outside of middle school.

Anyway, I'll play along with your proposition (there's a good word for you to borrow next time).

I tried to repeat my "concerns" to myself "again," only to find that I wasn't concerned with the issues you brought up to begin with. Why? I CREATED THE THREAD! I proposed the idea of bringing Melo to HOU to begin with, in exchange for a package including McGrady.

Does it make "enough sense to trade Mac for Melo"? Yes. To me it does.

This takes us back to your second post in this thread. You brought up a few concerns (there's that word again) about why this would be a bad idea. I said that these things have already been addressed.

So... did you read that first page?
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Post#65 » by Baller 24 » Sun May 11, 2008 4:32 pm

Adding Melo would be a horrible idea, he just seems like another Sprewell who is more concentrated on his statistics than winning.
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Post#66 » by jove9 » Sun May 11, 2008 4:33 pm

Z3snap wrote:^^ Public Service Announcement... anyone with:
Tracy,
McGrady,
T-Mac, or any other form of Tracy McGrady in their user name should refrain from post in this thread, because they just aren't bringing any substance to this argument...


:rofl:
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Post#67 » by TMU » Sun May 11, 2008 8:13 pm

moofs wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

TMU, how is this pace factor figured, where is it available, and what all does it represent?


Pace factor, available since the 1973-74 season in the NBA, is an estimate of the number of possessions per 48 minutes by a team. It's one of the few well-defined statistical measurements we have today.

Pace Factor Equation
Pace Factor = 48 * ((# of Team Possession in a whole season + # of Opponents Possession in a whole season) / (2 * (Total Minutes Played by Team in a whole season / 5))).
----------------------------------------------

Here are some relevant numbers to this discussion:

Carmelo Anthony

Pace Factor
03 - 04 Denver Nuggets: 93.3 (1st of 29)
04 - 05 Denver Nuggets: 93.5 (4th of 30)
05 - 06 Denver Nuggets: 93.9 (2nd of 30)
06 - 07 Denver Nuggets: 97.4 (2nd of 30)
07 - 08 Denver Nuggets: 99.7 (1st of 30)

Shot Clock Usage

Code: Select all

05-06 Season
Secs.   Att.    eFG%    Ast'd    Blk'd    Pts
00-10   41%     .566      67%     8%     9.1
11-15   26%     .473      61%     7%     4.8
16-20   23%     .442      54%     9%     4.0
21-24   10%     .377      64%     7%     1.5

06-07 Season
Secs.   Att.    eFG%    Ast'd    Blk'd    Pts
00-10   44%     .591      65%     7%     11.7
11-15   28%     .433      61%     8%     5.4
16-20   19%     .382      42%     8%     3.2
21-24   09%     .391      55%     6%     1.6

07-08 Season
Secs.   Att.    eFG%    Ast'd    Blk'd    Pts
00-10   43%     .570      62%     5%     9.5
11-15   31%     .480      58%     7%     5.7
16-20   19%     .467      54%     9%     3.4
21-24   07%     .402      48%     6%     1.1


Again, as indicated by the numbers above, Carmelo has never played in a half-court system. Let's not forget that this team revolves around Yao which means our pace is slow. I am just curious to see how Melo will fit on this team while playing alongside Yao Ming. Please enlighten me.

EDIT: numerous edits due to the stupid code button...
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Post#68 » by Zubby » Mon May 12, 2008 12:35 am

jove9 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



:rofl:

funny & sad because its so true...

Now on to this "pace factor"...the notion that Melo can't play in the halfcourt because his TEAM plays up tempo is ridiculous. The dudes weapons are his midrange game and his strength in the low post offensively and boxing out for the rebound on the defensive end. He is highly underrated passer and playing in the halfcourt he could also be more of a facilitator. To think a player of his caliber couldn't adjust is kinda dumb.

I mean the Nuggets didn't change their style to adapt to Melo, Denver have always played fast, dating back to their inaugural season.
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Post#69 » by jove9 » Mon May 12, 2008 12:38 am

T-Mac United wrote:Again, as indicated by the numbers above, Carmelo has never played in a half-court system. Let's not forget that this team revolves around Yao which means our pace is slow. I am just curious to see how Melo will fit on this team while playing alongside Yao Ming. Please enlighten me.


I'm not going to pretend to know all the answers, but I can tell you that Melo is more likely to push the break than T-Mac. Remember the first half of our streak when T-Mac was out? We won because our offense was going through Yao in the post, and our role players were pushing the ball on the break. We weren't worried about waiting for our gimpy stars to catch up.

When Yao got hurt and Tracy came back, our pace increased because we became an outside-in team, instead of an inside-out team. T-mac realized that he HAD to stop being lazy and run every other play if we were going to remain competitive.

Melo is also a decent cutter, a good post player, and an excellent mid-range jump shooter. These are all qualities that would fit in nicely with Aldeman's motion offense.

Moofs wrote:Is this the first time you've actively promote/defend a player trade before? Not that you're doing a bad job of it, just that I can't remember you doing it before.


You'll have to go back MANY years and to an old username to find the last time I actively defended / promoted a trade. It was Pippen to LA for Rice and Horry.

:o

EDIT: You beat me to the argument, Z3snap.
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Post#70 » by TMU » Mon May 12, 2008 4:50 am

Z3snap wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Now on to this "pace factor"...the notion that Melo can't play in the halfcourt because his TEAM plays up tempo is ridiculous. The dudes weapons are his midrange game and his strength in the low post offensively and boxing out for the rebound on the defensive end. He is highly underrated passer and playing in the halfcourt he could also be more of a facilitator. To think a player of his caliber couldn't adjust is kinda dumb.

I mean the Nuggets didn't change their style to adapt to Melo, Denver have always played fast, dating back to their inaugural season.


I never said he can't play in a halfcourt system, but as indicated by the pace factor, his numbers will go down and I doubt that he'd be this efficient if he were playing in a half-court set. You guys said Melo does everything better than McGrady based on their stats. Adjust the pace, and you'll note some difference.

Also, underrated passer? Just because he's 3rd? 4th? in scoring doesn't mean he's talented in all aspects.

Passing Rating
McGrady 9.9
Bryant 9.7
Wade 9.3
LeBron 8.9
Pierce 7.2
Carmelo 6.5

He also has a 1:1 ratio in AST/TO and his assist rating is incredibly low for someone who dominates the ball. Melo is not an underrated passer, he's just not good in that department.

Can Melo ever adapt to a half-court offense and be a better passer? Sure, but it will take more than a year to fully integrate his ability to this team. How much longer can we wait?

I believe our starters are set. No further adjustments need to be made unless we can find a better replacement for each of the positions and win immediately. And to win, we need to right personnel that fits with the identity of this team, rather than picking players based on talent.

We have added Battier in 06 and Scola in 07, it we need one more to really make this happen. Getting rid of McGrady and adding of Melo will simply change the dynamics of our offense and it will take more time to get a championship. I don't mind trading McGrady, but if that hinders our chance to win a championship in the short-term, I will be against it.

Feel free to disagree, but Melo isn't the right guy.
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Post#71 » by PocketRockets » Tue May 13, 2008 4:17 am

I think Melo would be a great fit into Adelman's system, but if we have to give up Mac or Yao then no. And Denver would want Mac at the least, so why is this thread still going? They haven't said what they wanted so why speculate? I think they want picks to get young cheap talent for the future (we don't have good picks).
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Post#72 » by jove9 » Tue May 13, 2008 4:39 am

^^^ 99% of all threads on forums such as this one are based on speculation. We speculate because no one outside of the Denver front office knows what the hell the team is planning on doing.

This thread is still going because the possibility of adding Melo is both alluring and repulsive at the same time.
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Post#73 » by moofs » Tue May 13, 2008 2:16 pm

Much like a post full of frosted mini wheats.
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Post#74 » by makegreatpets » Wed May 14, 2008 12:37 am

Baller 24 wrote:Adding Melo would be a horrible idea, he just seems like another Sprewell who is more concentrated on his statistics than winning.


He's more like Marbury if Marbury was a SF.
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Post#75 » by A.J. » Wed May 14, 2008 12:40 am

Baller 24 wrote:Adding Melo would be a horrible idea, he just seems like another Sprewell who is more concentrated on his statistics than winning.


Well in that case imagine if he cared about winning how good his team would be. :lol:
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Post#76 » by jove9 » Wed May 14, 2008 10:13 pm

Since we're comparing him to Sprewell, I wonder if Melo also needs over $9 million a year to feed his children....

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