OT- question about basketball rule

manun · Post #1 » by **manun** » Sun Sep 7, 2008 1:41 am

So i played with this dude at my YMCA. He will camp around the basket and then double team will come on him cause hes pretty slow to finish the ball. Thats when he starts to use his body to push ppl away and he usually does that with his elbows and his arms. He tells us that he is creating space and we are like wtf, u cant use ur arms to go to the basket.
Im really confused cause this dude used to play basketball in china pro in 16 years and this is what he tells me. Ppl have their arms strait up and surround him, then he will use his arms to get throught us.

franchise73 · Post #2 » by **franchise73** » Sun Sep 7, 2008 3:14 am

manun wrote:So i played with this dude at my YMCA. He will camp around the basket and then double team will come on him cause hes pretty slow to finish the ball. Thats when he starts to use his body to push ppl away and he usually does that with his elbows and his arms. He tells us that he is creating space and we are like wtf, u cant use ur arms to go to the basket.
Im really confused cause this dude used to play basketball in china pro in 16 years and this is what he tells me. Ppl have their arms strait up and surround him, then he will use his arms to get throught us.

Im positive that Under international and NBA rule, u cant create room with you elbows. You cant even hook someone to get passed people. So ya hes fouling for sure.

I had a similar problem where a guy would set the screen then i try to go under him hel move and block me all the way, then when im like wtf. His excuse was well havnt u seen those big men running down the court and the point guards run around them. So stupid lol

manun · Post #3 » by **manun** » Sun Sep 7, 2008 11:54 am

When does it count as offensive foul. when he knows he cant get past he will bully u out with his arms or body but then he just uses his pivot foot.

Post #4 » by **Vator** » Sun Sep 7, 2008 3:13 pm

He can't extend his arms and literally push you guys away, but he can use things like his body and forearms to fend you off prior to the ball arriving. Most good post players learn how to push without looking like they are pushing. A little nudge hear, a slight bump there. Now if he is reaching out and really pushing you guys around then that is a problem, but if he is doing little subtle things in the midst of a basketball move, he is likely to get away with it in an organized game. He also cannot swing his elbows and hit guys, but most coaches will teach a big man how to use his arms, elbows, and body to create operating room to grab rebounds and score down low. Most refs won't call it unless it is just blatant pushing and violently swung elbows.

Sounds like he is fouling to me by the way you explained the situation, but coaches do teach post players little tricks to "create space" over the course of a game.

PocketRockets · Post #5 » by **PocketRockets** » Sun Sep 7, 2008 3:45 pm

Ehh this is very tricky situation b/c from the info that you give it seems like he's doing it very blatantly. Hooking a defensive player (like what Shaq does) is always called a foul now-a-days. Or at least, I call it a foul when I ref games. If that guy has his arm fully extended to "create" room/push you away, I would also call that a foul. Just like on defense, how you can create a 90 degree angle with your elbow and put it on an offensive players back to keep him away, I allow the offensive player to do the same with blocking out for a rebound and to keep players away when reaching in. When the offensive player does it during a move such as a slash to the basket, it usually involves hooking the def. player and I don't allow it too often.

manun · Post #6 » by **manun** » Sun Sep 7, 2008 4:45 pm

He does what some ppl do after a defensive rebound (like mutumbo swing his arms around) then finish the ball but sometimes he would do that going to the basket. I always thought it would be a foul if someone was hit by that.

bigbreakfast · Post #7 » by **bigbreakfast** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 1:21 am

it's really hard to tell with just a short verbal description. you obviously can't use stiff arms or swing your elbows violently, but I don't know anyone that doesn't use their forearms, shoulders, and elbows to a certain existent while operating down low.

PocketRockets · Post #8 » by **PocketRockets** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 7:38 pm

Well if it's what players do after a rebound...then it's legal. For example, stand straight up, hold a basketball in the palms of both hands, and raise ur arms/elbows until they are parallel with the ground. You are allow to rotate in that plane with your arms/elbows and if someone reaches in and tries to steal the ball, then it's a foul on them. With that said, you can't do that stance and lean in any way towards anyone (hence the stand straight up part). If you are going to swing your elbows (remember to have your hands on the ball, holding it on "opposite polar ends"), and lean so you can clock someone, then it's a foul on you. I had plenty of players reach in to steal a rebound that I had and left with knots on their face and forehead. My friend also broke someone's nose that tried to do the same thing in a highschool game and a reach in foul was called on the other player (legal).

Now if you do that same motion but on a drive or post up move and hook another player it's a foul. Really quite simple, really, unless there are floppers which make the job harder for officials. But I never call offensive fouls b/c believe it or not, most of the time it's not! Most of the time the defensive player isn't even set (there for a second before the offensive player comes into the same physical plane). But that's another story.