Mcgrady's knee and shoulder still a problem

[PocketRockets]

This isn't NBA live or 2k. You can't just throw stars on the court and expect wins. To the peeps that think T-mac can afford 2-3 months off, come back and automatically gel with the team, you are crazy and know very little about basketball (you might know alot about street ball though). When T-mac comes back he'd have to "learn" to play with the team in place, which will actually set the team back as they will have to adapt to adding a player of his caliber. The learning curve will probably take a month and a half at the least and if we're not 5-6 seed, then you can kiss the playoffs goodbye (by playoffs, I mean championship, the only thing that matters).

[moofs]

I would just like to take this time to point out that we've done the major injury -> 5-6 seed thing before.

...
Twice.
In 4 years.
With FAR lesser teams. (not referring to just WOW WE HAS THREE STARS OMG by any means)

I'm also not saying I'd rather he sit out. I don't care, that's his call and he already made it. What I'm saying is that if he had sat out for a couple months, while it would suck in the short term (cause we wouldn't get to see the league steamrolled), we wouldn't fall off the map.

And again, I'm relatively indifferent to the offense and have no idea how it will turn out. I'm excited about the defense that should be elite mixed with an offense that should be above average. I'd wager that bringing back McGrady wouldn't change how the defense is run by all that much, but how many teams in league history can claim to have had THREE defensive stoppers, two of whom are offensively capable (third being Deke), with quite a few other good defensive players?

Hell, we picked up Clyde after 4 months and won the championship. You sure that sort of thing can't be done? I'll admit it's no automatic (and you should know by now that I'm usually saying "haha" and "uh oh" to a lot of tries [via trades] at this sort of thing), but to say that it can''t happen and writing it off as NBA Live-esque (which as a side note, I NEVER EVER EVER play 99.9% of sports games) is just as wrong as saying it's guaranteed to. I really think our team is one of the ones that could pull it off.

(again, see caveat list above)

[TMU]

There are several types of shoulder arthritis: osteoarthritis, rotator cuff tear, etc. We don't know anything about the severity of his condition, but on average it takes about 4 - 6 months to recuperate from a shoulder surgery.

[bgassassin]

I really feel sorry for you guys. I've never seen a true contender get hampered consistently by injuries like your team does. First Battier, now this. And the season hasn't even started yet.

[PocketRockets]

I would just like to take this time to point out that we've done the major injury -> 5-6 seed thing before.

...
Twice.
In 4 years.
With FAR lesser teams. (not referring to just WOW WE HAS THREE STARS OMG by any means)

I'm also not saying I'd rather he sit out. I don't care, that's his call and he already made it. What I'm saying is that if he had sat out for a couple months, while it would suck in the short term (cause we wouldn't get to see the league steamrolled), we wouldn't fall off the map.

And again, I'm relatively indifferent to the offense and have no idea how it will turn out. I'm excited about the defense that should be elite mixed with an offense that should be above average. I'd wager that bringing back McGrady wouldn't change how the defense is run by all that much, but how many teams in league history can claim to have had THREE defensive stoppers, two of whom are offensively capable (third being Deke), with quite a few other good defensive players?

Hell, we picked up Clyde after 4 months and won the championship. You sure that sort of thing can't be done? I'll admit it's no automatic (and you should know by now that I'm usually saying "haha" and "uh oh" to a lot of tries [via trades] at this sort of thing), but to say that it can''t happen and writing it off as NBA Live-esque (which as a side note, I NEVER EVER EVER play 99.9% of sports games) is just as wrong as saying it's guaranteed to. I really think our team is one of the ones that could pull it off.

(again, see caveat list above)

First off, I'm not targeting you or what you said in this thread. I just noted that more than one person would be fine with T-mac missing months of this season. Did you guys forget about battier (out for a month)?

The Clyde thing is a valid argument, if it wasn't for the fact that the team already had the best player in NBA history!!! No offense to Jordan (I'm the biggest Jordan head), but Hakeem dominated the court in his prime. We have no Hakeem (don't even think about saying Yao/Artest) and T-mac is no clyde. Back then players played for pride and love for the game, T-mac plays for the money and when he wants to.

[Iggyemu]

1+1 essentially. Lack of home court + playing one of the top teams either LA or NO = likely first round loss. There is no other sport where home court means more...the fact that I even have to say that shows either how little you know or how highly you think of this team.

Personally in the West...I don't think any team can win without the home court. The teams are not that far apart. I am not saying if we end up with the 6th or 7th seed we'll be an easy out...I am saying we'll just get beat b/c we wouldn't have the HC and thats something you need in this conference. Kobe opted not to do surgery on his pinky b/c he knows exactly what I just said. And I imagine McGrady is opting to not have surgery b/c he knows it too. If your best player or at least the guy that makes your team go missed 2 months of regular season action...you probably can't plan to be playing in mid-May.

In this conference you need the home court to advance. To get the home court you have to play well and at least give yourselves a chance to be good from the start. I am not saying you have to be 20-3 or anything like that...I am saying you can't start 10-20 and expect to have home court come playoff time. Its just not gonna happen...mediocre teams play to make the playoffs....good teams play for seeding. If we start poorly we'll be a team playing to make the playoffs and that really wouldn't be much different from any other year and we probably shouldn't expect anything different.

A little of column A, a little of column B, and I think that while, thanks mainly to referees, home court does play a stake, that it doesn't play THAT much of a stake (as far as players are concerned, football seems to have a bigger advantage). If we're healthy, I think we're head and shoulders above any other WC team, save possibly Portland, from whom I have NO IDEA what to expect (they only have TWO players that weren't born in the 80s, I feel old now...). If healthy (always the caveat), Utah, San Antonio (who has had trouble with us at full strength for several years now), Phoenix, and Dallas stand no chance against us. Phoenix might just have the best shot of that bunch, and I don't think they're that good. That leaves New Orleans and LA.

Even without McGrady we should be able to stay around the 5-6 seed, then catch up to 3-4 pretty handily after he gets back. WITH him, I think we could easily be the 1 or 2 seed. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I'm also not saying that on the strength of our offense, which should be far better than last year (which is scary), but on the strength of our defense (mildly downgraded outlook if Mutombo doesn't return). NO ONE else in the league has the kind of two-way team we have. Even L.A., with all their options, is going to have some nasties getting through all our defense. Artest will probably have Odom waving the white flag by game 2, Kobe usually sucks against Battier, Yao/Scola can hang reasonably well with Gasol. New Orleans is good, no doubt, but they aren't in our class. I mean, we're probably going to win several games with some pain-ridden teams giving up at 49 pts down by 28 at 10:26 in the 4th quarter. I feel pretty good about being able to keep pace with the other 5-10 teams below the top two without a guy or two, and really good if we actually have everyone going into the playoffs for once.

And I'd say our team is more than good enough to win against San Antonio/Phx/Utah without home court, cause barring an inverse miracle we ARE NOT going to be a 7-8 seed this year.

2 frequently keys for all of this:
- Health.
- Sanity.
Meshing offensively is a distant third.

Can't argue with that. You think we are just that dam good. And frankly...I want to believe you. We shall see but I think McGrady missing a lot of time will hold us back and I agree with his decision to deal with it in the offseason. I think simply....he isn't hurt that bad. He knows he is gonna be a free agent in 2010 and if he struggles he wants to have an excuse. That irks me a bit b/c it either means he has lost confidence in himself or he didn't work hard in the offseason. I don't care how many first round series you lose...you get a Ron Artest to form probably the best 3-some in the league...you go hard to make sure you hold up your end of the deal.

[moofs]

I would just like to take this time to point out that we've done the major injury -> 5-6 seed thing before.

...
Twice.
In 4 years.
With FAR lesser teams. (not referring to just WOW WE HAS THREE STARS OMG by any means)

I'm also not saying I'd rather he sit out. I don't care, that's his call and he already made it. What I'm saying is that if he had sat out for a couple months, while it would suck in the short term (cause we wouldn't get to see the league steamrolled), we wouldn't fall off the map.

And again, I'm relatively indifferent to the offense and have no idea how it will turn out. I'm excited about the defense that should be elite mixed with an offense that should be above average. I'd wager that bringing back McGrady wouldn't change how the defense is run by all that much, but how many teams in league history can claim to have had THREE defensive stoppers, two of whom are offensively capable (third being Deke), with quite a few other good defensive players?

Hell, we picked up Clyde after 4 months and won the championship. You sure that sort of thing can't be done? I'll admit it's no automatic (and you should know by now that I'm usually saying "haha" and "uh oh" to a lot of tries [via trades] at this sort of thing), but to say that it can''t happen and writing it off as NBA Live-esque (which as a side note, I NEVER EVER EVER play 99.9% of sports games) is just as wrong as saying it's guaranteed to. I really think our team is one of the ones that could pull it off.

(again, see caveat list above)

First off, I'm not targeting you or what you said in this thread. I just noted that more than one person would be fine with T-mac missing months of this season. Did you guys forget about battier (out for a month)?

The Clyde thing is a valid argument, if it wasn't for the fact that the team already had the best player in NBA history!!! No offense to Jordan (I'm the biggest Jordan head), but Hakeem dominated the court in his prime. We have no Hakeem (don't even think about saying Yao/Artest) and T-mac is no clyde. Back then players played for pride and love for the game, T-mac plays for the money and when he wants to.

Seemed like there was only me and one other guy saying that, but I wouldn't care if you did, bring on all comers!! As I was one of them (to a degree) though, figured I'd respond. Plus I was bored.

Battier should be back by the start of the season, IIRC.

Added caveat: Rafer age dropoff.