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Preseason Game #1: Grizzlies vs Rockets Game Thread

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Re: Preseason Game #1: Grizzlies vs Rockets Game Thread 

Post#101 » by abcdef » Thu Oct 9, 2008 1:19 am

Iggyemu wrote:quote snipped


Did you even read my other long post where I went through your post and responded point by point? And you're the one accusing me of not reading your posts?

Now to respond to your new points:

Yao is just about as good as Duncan in the low post. Their post games share many of the same characteristics; I remember reading through Spurs forums occasionally and seeing the Spurs fans come up with the same "god Tim stop playing so soft, stop shooting fadeaways" line that Rockets fans say for Yao. Duncan may be better at getting himself in position to get the ball because he is quicker and because he can face up and drive, but Yao is taller so he can get his shot off easily against anyone while Duncan struggles against bigger defenders (like Yao, for example). Their moves are basically the same, they have the turnaround jumper and jump hook. Duncan is better with his shots on the move, but again Yao can simply shoot over any defender while this is not always true for Duncan. The difference between the two players is on defense, where Duncan is simply at another level, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.

You are still wrong that the answer to fronting is bringing Yao to the high post. It is and has always been quick and precise ball movement and execution of basic plays, like the pick and roll with the man who is giving backside help. I gave several examples of things that the Rockets have done do break the front. Bringing Yao to the high post is not an answer to fronting. It is simply a different offensive set that has nothing to do with breaking the front. When Yao slides into the low post from the elbow, if the defense is alert the front will be there again.

You are also wrong in that teams front in crunch time; teams almost always revert to a base "man-up and help in the paint" defense in crunch time. The fronting occurs typically in the middle of the game when Yao is on a scoring spurt. If you noticed, even GS and Phoenix, the two teams that front/double Yao the most, reverted to a base man defense in crunch time. This is because gimmicky defense almost always give up open shots, and the concept in crunch time is that the offense must earn their points by beating the defense, not because the defense beat itself by leaving someone open by design.

If you really believed in Adelman's offense, you'd want to trade Yao for Brad Miller and change. Yao is special because he can score over anyone in the low post and he can draw many fouls in the paint and convert his FT's at 85%. You are completely taking that away from him by moving him to the high post. It would be like telling McGrady to not demand the ball, and instead crash the glass on possessions and go for offensive rebounds. Sure, he could do a mediocre job of it, but it is completely wasting his strengths and making his weaknesses look worse. The results were not borne out to be positive for the Rockets either; Yao's game suffered last year and the offense improved by .8 points per 100 possessions, and that's after adding Landry, Scola, and Bonzi Wells. Yao simply put is a poor fit to play in the high post and it is not making the team better that he is playing worse. JVG once said that Yao is the best player in the NBA within 10 feet of the basket, but very average outside of there. Do you want to see the best player in the NBA, or an average player?

You still refuse to answer this question, so I will repeat it: When was the last time a team improved when it by design made its star player play worse in literally EVERY facet of the game?
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Re: Preseason Game #1: Grizzlies vs Rockets Game Thread 

Post#102 » by TMU » Thu Oct 9, 2008 1:41 am

I can't believe people are arguing after what they saw in a freakin PRESEASON game. Chill out fellas, let's stop over-analyzing the x's and o's.
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Re: Preseason Game #1: Grizzlies vs Rockets Game Thread 

Post#103 » by TMACFORMVP » Thu Oct 9, 2008 1:47 am

I am not saying he shouldn't. I dunno man...I gotta cut down the length of my posts b/c nobody reads them. What I am saying is that when teams front him he has to have answer...we as a team has to have an answer. That answer can't be taking him out of the game...it has to be high post play. I am saying that Yao needs deal with the struggles of playing there so he can learn to play there so for those crucial minutes in which a team fronts him...he'll have an answer and our offense would go to crap when the game is on the line. Teams that will front him are probably LA, NO, Bos, Detroit...teams with athletic big guys and teams that we'll surely have to face if we want a championship.


Nah dude, I read your post, mine wasn't really directed at you, lol. :)

I definitely agree with the fronting problem, that was a huge issue for us last season, when teams decided to simply front Yao, it dramatically reduced his effectiveness. Anyways, let's see what happens guys, like TMU said, one pre-season game, it's a time for experimentation and weird rotations. I'm sure Yao will get more than enough touches in the offense and get a better grasp of the high post from time to time just to keep the defenses thinking.
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Re: Preseason Game #1: Grizzlies vs Rockets Game Thread 

Post#104 » by tha_rock220 » Thu Oct 9, 2008 3:58 am

abcdef wrote:When was the last time a team improved when it by design made its star player play worse in literally EVERY facet of the game?


Yeah, just admit that you would love it if T-Mac was forced to take a reduced role in the coming season. Does it hurt you inside that the T-Mac won more games consecutively without Yao than Yao won without T-Mac all last season????
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Re: Preseason Game #1: Grizzlies vs Rockets Game Thread 

Post#105 » by abcdef » Thu Oct 9, 2008 5:05 am

tha_rock220 wrote:
abcdef wrote:When was the last time a team improved when it by design made its star player play worse in literally EVERY facet of the game?


Yeah, just admit that you would love it if T-Mac was forced to take a reduced role in the coming season. Does it hurt you inside that the T-Mac won more games consecutively without Yao than Yao won without T-Mac all last season????


LMAO way to change the subject to something completely irrelevant. Your objective is obvious, you're flamebaiting me and trying to get me banned, but I'm not biting. Too bad you are going after the wrong subject matter.

As for discussing the matter at hand, come back when you have something substantive to post. You posted in agreement with me a week back anyway.
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Re: Preseason Game #1: Grizzlies vs Rockets Game Thread 

Post#106 » by tha_rock220 » Thu Oct 9, 2008 5:40 am

abcdef wrote:
LMAO way to change the subject to something completely irrelevant. Your objective is obvious, you're flamebaiting me and trying to get me banned, but I'm not biting. Too bad you are going after the wrong subject matter.

As for discussing the matter at hand, come back when you have something substantive to post. You posted in agreement with me a week back anyway.


I'm in agreement with you 100%. I hate the idea of Yao being anywhere but the low post. The idea of him shooting jumpers and being a facilitator from the elbow in one of the most bull nonsensical offenses that never won anything sickens me more than the thought of the Cici's pizza down the street from my apartment closing. He's been mentioned by other players in the league as the most difficult big man to guard. Even the likes of Tim Duncan and Dwight Howard have no answer for him down low. Oh yes, I agree with you completely.

I just don't like you.
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Re: Preseason Game #1: Grizzlies vs Rockets Game Thread 

Post#107 » by Yao21 » Thu Oct 9, 2008 5:52 am

I can still see Yao playing the low post for at least 60% or a majority of the time, and the for rest of the time, he can be up in the high post to change things up. Not only will this give Yao different offensive looks for both himself and his team, he will also not wear out as quickly, and thus decreasing the risk of injury. Adelman is too smart to not play to Yao's potential in the low-post. I think you guys should have faith in what Adelman is doing; there's a reason why he's a head coach, and we aren't.

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