At retirement,Yao willrank where among alltime great centers

[Harmless]

I chose option 3. If he keeps this lackadasial play, I'll have to bump him down even more.

[moofs]

How. How. How. How. Did I forget Zo?

[TMACFORMVP]

McAdoo is another guy, though he was more the outside shooting big, and played PF with Showtime. Completely forgot about Gilmore as well, one a chip in the ABA when only Dr. J was winning the championships, lol.

[TMU]

Others:
Chamberlain, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Russell, Mutombo, Jabbar, Malone, Duncan, maybe Reed, maybe Cowens, Parish, Zo, maybe Sikma, maybe Thurmond...
That's 12-16 off the top of my head.

Nice list. I think both Sikma and Thurmond are definitely ahead of Yao. I also believe that the following players belong to that list: Gilmore, McAdoo, Lanier, Unseld, and probably Mikan (I can't say much about him because I've never seen his clips or footage).

Anyway with that list, he's definitely out of Top 20.

[SOUL]

Being the best center in the NBA nowadays is really nothing to brag about. Dwight is the best center nowadays ( excluding duncan) but he gets overrated a lot by this board. He's definitely not a dominant offensive force and his defense isn't as good as people say. He's a good help defender but clearly isn't on the level of Duncan/Garnett and his man D is quite average.

I'd say Duncan is the best center, but if we are talking about Dwight...well although currently the center position isn't the "strongest" Dwight has made big strides, and it shows on both ends of the floor statistically anyway.

I'm not saying Dwight isn't a great player and I'm not saying he hasn't made strides in his game. But honestly, currently he isn't as good as people on this board would like to think. Notice I say currently because of course he's still young and has tons of room for growth.

I've been watching him closely ever since his 2nd season in the NBA and while his offensive game has made strides he's still far from being a great offensive player.

Dwight's team defense has improved considerably and I would say he's definitely a force in the middle. However, I still wouldn't put him in the category of players like Duncan/Garnett in that regard. Also I don't know what the stats say but IMO Dwight's man to man defense is only average ( maybe a little above average because of his freakish athleticism). Remember the game where we played the Magic earlier this season? Dwight couldn't guard Yao at all and in fact Adonal Foyle had much better success.

Dwight has trouble with Yao just cause of his size. He's used to getting great position and throwing around lil hooks and stuff.. Yao alters that totally. His man to man D isnt anything to write home about but he is totally anchoring our D... we're not third best in the league cause of Turkoglu.

[grond]

He is a far more offensively polished center than any other, in terms of fundamentals.

With all due respect, on the face of it, this statement is kinda ridiculous. Unless you're just talking about active centers? Still, I'd rate Duncan ahead of Yao in terms of offensive polish. Being a smaller, quicker guy, he has more moves (and therefore, by definition, more offensive polish).

He's definitely a bigger, more physically gifted Arydas Sabonis, now. And I really really liked Arydas Sabonis.

How is Yao more physically gifted than Sabonis? He's taller and that's about it. IMHO prime (pre-injury) Sabonis > current Yao (though I concede the 'wasn't-in-the-nba-at-that-time' counter argument). I really liked Sabonis too!

EDIT: And also, Mcgrady2Head, your poll is messed up man. Ewing and D-Rob do not belong on the same tier as Shaq and Hakeem. I don't care what the stats say.

[kam_soluusar]

I see only what crappy coverage i can get here in OZ, however, it is apparent at this point in time, that Yao is the best centre in the West, and that Howard is the best in the East.

Didn't Yao dominate Howard in their one Matchup this year so far??????

Oh, and the league has changed since most of the above listed players. It's easy to dominate when teams can't play a Zone type Defence, which makes it easier to bring weakside help.

The only way that Yao has been a bust for us is the amount of time he has spent injured. He has bought exposure and a whole New fanbase to NBA Basketball. He may not go down Statistically as one of the greatest centres, but he will certainly go down as one of the greatest players to cause a major impact on the league.

Damn man, all I see more and more is Yao and T-mac Bashing on here. On a TEAM, EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE. Even the fans.

[spolgar]

Hey I wrote those quotes, not smapor. Go after the right guy dude

With all due respect, on the face of it, this statement is kinda ridiculous. Unless you're just talking about active centers? Still, I'd rate Duncan ahead of Yao in terms of offensive polish. Being a smaller, quicker guy, he has more moves (and therefore, by definition, more offensive polish).

How is Yao more physically gifted than Sabonis? He's taller and that's about it. IMHO prime (pre-injury) Sabonis > current Yao (though I concede the 'wasn't-in-the-nba-at-that-time' counter argument). I really liked Sabonis too!

First of all, I should've prefaced that I was talking only about active centers. As per Duncan ahead of Yao, I disagree. Duncan's inability to improve his percentages at the charity strip is a liability at times. Yao does not have such a glaring weakness in his game. Yao is way slower but in the post his height, strength and length make up for it. I also seldom think of Duncan as a center, since there weren't many centers that have a 15 foot bank shot. (Ewing and Smits excluded.)

I only referenced Sabonis's game when he was in the NBA. By the time he was here, his knees were already shot. Still, he was a force to be reckoned with, but being only able to play 25-30 minutes a game, he did not have as much effect on the outcome of the game in his first few years as Yao did. However, I will conceded that he's a much better passer than Yao.

[moofs]

EDIT: And also, Mcgrady2Head, your poll is messed up man. Ewing and D-Rob do not belong on the same tier as Shaq and Hakeem. I don't care what the stats say.

Ewing definitely doesn't.
According to wages of wins, Robinson was much better than Hakeem who wasn't even as good as Shaq. I'm pretty shocked at that outcome. Sure woulda been nice if Robinson hadn't come into the league at 25/26.

Still, standard BSPN mimicry poll.

[CuttingEdge]

Yao can cause havoc for the team as well. Upon reviewing last nights game Yao closed of the driving lanes and made the offense come to a halt. Funny thing is there's no way Yao can grab a board unless he partially clogs the driving lanes. The opposition would push him out (usually 2 hands and illegally) so he can't hustle back in to grab a board in most cases. Being a giant is tough because you have to compensate for your own movement when the average player doesn't even have to think about it. Yao would knock ppl over if he tried moving fluidly.

[TMU]

First of all, I should've prefaced that I was talking only about active centers. As per Duncan ahead of Yao, I disagree. Duncan's inability to improve his percentages at the charity strip is a liability at times. Yao does not have such a glaring weakness in his game. Yao is way slower but in the post his height, strength and length make up for it. I also seldom think of Duncan as a center, since there weren't many centers that have a 15 foot bank shot. (Ewing and Smits excluded.)

Duncan's true position is somewhat ambiguous, withe the likes of Jerry Lucas and Billy Cunningham, etc. However, his Min (the percentage of the team's total minutes the player was at that position) distribution indicates that his main position was power forward.

EDIT: SOURCE - 82games.com

'97 - '02 (5 seasons): no records, but with D-Rob, Duncan was mainly a PF.
'02 - '03: 34% at C, 45% at PF
'03 - '04: 27% at C, 37% at PF
'04 - '05: 28% at C, 26% at PF
'05 - '06: 23% at C, 47% at PF
'06 - '07: 49% at C, 19% at PF
'07 - '08: 62% at C, 4% at PF
'08 - '09: 55% at C, 17% at PF

Who knows how many more years he'll be playing but up to this point, he's had more minutes at the PF and has won 3 championships as a power forward.

[TMU]

EDIT: And also, Mcgrady2Head, your poll is messed up man. Ewing and D-Rob do not belong on the same tier as Shaq and Hakeem. I don't care what the stats say.

Ewing definitely doesn't.
According to wages of wins, Robinson was much better than Hakeem who wasn't even as good as Shaq. I'm pretty shocked at that outcome. Sure woulda been nice if Robinson hadn't come into the league at 25/26.

Still, standard BSPN mimicry poll.

Yes, while your points are certainly valid but at the same time I think it's difficult to group some of those players. I personally don't mind putting Hakeem and Shaq along with Wilt, Russell, and Jabbar. If I group those 5 players together and then look at David Robinson, there's a problem because D-Rob's somewhat close to Hakeem and Shaq, but not that close to the 3 "untouchable" centers. Meanwhile you have a guy like Patrick Ewing, who's somewhat near D-Rob but he doesn't belong in the same discussion with Shaq or Hakeem. It's really tough to make these cut-offs.

[Don Draper]

David Robinson is in the same class as Hakeem, even though he wasn't better. He was better offensively. The Dream was better defensively.

[grond]

Hey I wrote those quotes, not smapor. Go after the right guy dude

Whups! Sorry about that + Good grief @ self. That's what I get for posting using a non-script enabled browser and doing things manually.

First of all, I should've prefaced that I was talking only about active centers. As per Duncan ahead of Yao, I disagree. Duncan's inability to improve his percentages at the charity strip is a liability at times. Yao does not have such a glaring weakness in his game. Yao is way slower but in the post his height, strength and length make up for it. I also seldom think of Duncan as a center, since there weren't many centers that have a 15 foot bank shot. (Ewing and Smits excluded.)

Yes, fair point re: Duncan. Still, I think Duncan's broader offensive arsenal (especially, the extra range factor, cause it opens things up for him having to guard it) trumps Yao's height/bulk advantage. The FT thing is a liability, but I can't think of too many occassions where opponents have been able to exploit it in a PO type situation.

[moofs]

Haha nice sig obinna. Welcome to 2006.

[T-Wack]

Tonight's game just put him in Wilt territory.

[smapor]

Tonight's game just put him in Wilt territory.

lol i voted that for you, even though i and every Rocket fan knows that is far from the truthl. lol

[Baller 24]

Hmm....I'd put Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Dream, Moses, Robinson, Ewing, Gilmore, Cowens, Walton, Sikma, Reed, McAdoo started out as a center, Thurmound, *cough* are we forgetting Bob Lanier (Kareem respected the hell out of this guy, so physical, so strong, great player), Wes Unseld (although his MVP was undeserved, he was a big intangibles guy, great passer), Robert Parish (people forget about him often, durable, good two way player, big on the Celtics). Mikan is tough, haven't seen much of him, but I'd take Yao about 10 times out of 10 over him. But on an all-time list, Yao isn't there yet. Alonzo Mourning is ahead, Mutombo is ahead, hmm that puts Yao out of the top 20 regarding an all-time list as of right now.

I'd also say Duncan's game is more fundamentally based in terms of a traditional center. He just got onto a team that had Robinson at the time, but he plays more in a traditional center style. Great guy though, solid defense for nearly a decade, most consistent player, and also a terrific passer. Probably the most fundamentally finesse player since Kareem. And don't let his scoring numbers fool you, look closer to what he did in '03 and you'd think twice.

[tha_rock220]

EDIT: And also, Mcgrady2Head, your poll is messed up man. Ewing and D-Rob do not belong on the same tier as Shaq and Hakeem. I don't care what the stats say.

Ewing definitely doesn't.
According to wages of wins, Robinson was much better than Hakeem who wasn't even as good as Shaq. I'm pretty shocked at that outcome. Sure woulda been nice if Robinson hadn't come into the league at 25/26.

Still, standard BSPN mimicry poll.

Yes, while your points are certainly valid but at the same time I think it's difficult to group some of those players. I personally don't mind putting Hakeem and Shaq along with Wilt, Russell, and Jabbar. If I group those 5 players together and then look at David Robinson, there's a problem because D-Rob's somewhat close to Hakeem and Shaq, but not that close to the 3 "untouchable" centers. Meanwhile you have a guy like Patrick Ewing, who's somewhat near D-Rob but he doesn't belong in the same discussion with Shaq or Hakeem. It's really tough to make these cut-offs.

It might bother you, but I put Russell below Hakeem and Shaq. He was great, but he also enjoyed the most overall help relative to the rest of the league maybe ever. IMO Wilt and Kareem are at the top. Then Shaq, Dream, and Russell make up the 2nd group.

D-Rob is something of a mystery. That 95 WCF basically demolished him in the eyes of basketball fans everywhere. If they guy had the mentality of some other all-time greats he would have been arguably the best player of the 90's. I generally lump him together with Moses, Walton, Hayes, Reed, and whoever else I might be forgetting.

I disagree with these choices. Currently Yao is way down there, and he's not doing enough to move up right now. He hasn't really separated himself from guys like Sikma, Daugherty, Zo, Mutombo etc. All are multiple time all-stars who really don't belong in the HoF.

[fisterkev]

Ho won't rank anywhere without at least one ring.