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The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon

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moofs
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#41 » by moofs » Thu Jan 8, 2009 5:00 pm

T-Wack wrote:
moofs wrote:You just know that you think Aaron Brooks should have started a long time ago, and that you think Adelman is an idiot since he hasn't already done it.


Yes. We need wins now. We don't have time to worry about Rafer's impact in the locker room. As long as he isn't negatively impacting us on the court, like he does now, I can't complain. If he'd done it a long time ago, like when I'd originally suggested, then we probably wouldn't be fighting for the eighth spot in the playoffs right now.

We don't have time to massage Alston's ego.


There is time (only 37 games into the season. By my count that leaves 45, and though we're in 7th, we're also only 3 games out of second place - if we can go down 3 games in 37, we should easily be able to go up 4 in 45), and we can live without a few wins here and there, and I'd bet large sums of money that Rafer is not the ONLY problem causing our losses. Seems like a person or two have complained about McGrady lately, something about some other guys being injured too, Yao playing soft, Landry and Hayes not producing like last year, some other crap I think, but it's all conjecture....

It's not entirely about Rafer either, though he is a consideration. Can you please stop trying to make me repeat things? Learning to think big picture is a good thing, not everything is about the here-and-now, Mr. Grasshopper.
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#42 » by tisbee » Thu Jan 8, 2009 5:27 pm

Moofs,
Sorry,I kind of ignored this thread. So to answer your question<if the team is going to commit to Brooks as the starting PG(which I don't see happening this yr,BTW) you have to trade Alston. Otherwise Brooks will be constantly looking over his shoulder and the tempatation to start Rafer again after a couple of bad games might be too strong for Adelman.

Reasons Rafer will continue starting this season:
The Rockets are trying to win-now and a head coach will always prefer a steady vet as his PG over an untested young PG.(Short memories-against Jazz last yr,0-3 games Rafer missed w/injury,2-1 w/him-and a bad no-call kept it from 3-0.)
Vet Leadership. No suprise it was Alston who called out both McGrady and Artest. In Brooks' first couple starts the two were telling Brooks what to do.Most coaches want their PG to control the offense,Adelman knows Rafer will,he can't be sure Brooks can under Playoff pressure.
Rafer doesn't turn the ball over. This alone endears him to his head coach. Brooks is still learning and forces the ball a little too much.
Rafer is one of two Rockets counted on to keep Artest focused and playing the way Adelman wants him. As a starter Rafer has more weight than as a reserve.
Balance. As noted Brooks can break down his defender and create his own shot. But if he starts,the Second Unit will not have anyone who can do that other than Artest-who is not especially wise in doing so and would further encourage Ron to play outside the system.
Rafer has shown he can hit big shots late in games.

Unless the Rockets win the Title this yr,I expect a heated training camp battle between the two and if Rafer loses,he gets traded. A)Because of what I wrote above and B) because he's one of the best trade pieces the Rockets have left.
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#43 » by smapor » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:08 pm

How many of you can confidently tell me, if we replaced AB with Rafer in the 4th QTR, we would of won that game.

Rafer messed up horrible in the 3rd quarter, so much for Vet leadership. He had 2 TO back to back which resulted in a 4 PT swing, which allowed the Celtics to go 6 points down to regaining a 2 PT lead.

A VeT PG would of allowed us to get 1 shot off.

The point is, everybody makes mistakes Vet or no Vet. However AB is the better PG and he needs the experience.
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#44 » by BaYBaller » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:24 pm

smapor wrote:How many of you can confidently tell me, if we replaced AB with Rafer in the 4th QTR, we would of won that game.

Rafer messed up horrible in the 3rd quarter, so much for Vet leadership. He had 2 TO back to back which resulted in a 4 PT swing, which allowed the Celtics to go 6 points down to regaining a 2 PT lead.

A VeT PG would of allowed us to get 1 shot off.

The point is, everybody makes mistakes Vet or no Vet. However AB is the better PG and he needs the experience.


I don't know even know what you're arguing. Brooks has already closed out multiple games and nobody is arguing that he should when we need his offense (i.e. when T-Mac is out). The only concern I have is Brooks defensively vs starting PGs. There is a reason we are struggling so much defensively and that is the lack of perimeter defense. It's not always a lack of effort that's the problem, people need to realize this. There are 2 ends of the court. Teams are feasting off our backcourt of Brooks - Barry - Head - Wafer, who are all terrible defensively. I mean I haven't really looked into it but that is possibly the worst backcourt defensively in the league. I sure can't think of any team that's worse.

If we had everybody healthy I still say start Alston, with the person closing out determined by our needs during crunch time. With T-Mac/Artest/Battier in and out of the lineup it is hard to say because we need Brooks' penetration to open up the offense. But a starting lineup change is not something coaches do all willy-nilly in the NBA. I am still of the opinion Alston should start but Brooks needs heavy minutes like tonight at least until we get more players back from injury.
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#45 » by smapor » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:59 pm

BaYBaller wrote:I don't know even know what you're arguing. Brooks has already closed out multiple games and nobody is arguing that he should when we need his offense (i.e. when T-Mac is out). The only concern I have is Brooks defensively vs starting PGs. There is a reason we are struggling so much defensively and that is the lack of perimeter defense. It's not always a lack of effort that's the problem, people need to realize this. There are 2 ends of the court. Teams are feasting off our backcourt of Brooks - Barry - Head - Wafer, who are all terrible defensively. I mean I haven't really looked into it but that is possibly the worst backcourt defensively in the league. I sure can't think of any team that's worse.

If we had everybody healthy I still say start Alston, with the person closing out determined by our needs during crunch time. With T-Mac/Artest/Battier in and out of the lineup it is hard to say because we need Brooks' penetration to open up the offense. But a starting lineup change is not something coaches do all willy-nilly in the NBA. I am still of the opinion Alston should start but Brooks needs heavy minutes like tonight at least until we get more players back from injury.


Brooks did not close out multiple games when Rafer starts.

Defensively its a wash, becuase its not perimeter defense that is killing us, its the issue of not staying in front of your defenders. Ric has commented on this and clear in the last few games, alot of teams are scoring alot of points in the paint.

Defense is about the team, its not just 1 individual, its about committing to defense and from what I seen AB is trying his hardest on defense. Its landry and Wafer who are looking lost on defense. # 1 reason is because they still do not know how to guard the pick and roll or at least pick how they want to guard it.

Put it this way, If Rafer is a 7 on defense, AB is a 5 (I give it a 5 because of his height and experience) but its not like Rafer is a 7 and AB is a 1 on defense. However offensively if AB is a 7, Rafer is a 2. Thats a huge difference because we all know Rafer sucks offensively.

As for health issue, please we had Rafer starting for us the last 3 years, I am tired of seeing teams cheat off him and double T-mac and Yao. But if you notice, when RAfer has a good scoring game, guess what we win games. I wish somebody had stats if Rafer was able to shoot above 40%, how many more games we would won.

Another thing is, in the past we could of lived with Rafer's poor offense becuase of 1 reason. We played JVG ball. Every game was a low scoring game.

So i do agree, if everybody was healthy and we played JVG ball, Rafer is a good fit. Guess what, JVG ain't here and we are not healthy.

Lastly the whole "I don't care if AB starts, he just needs to play more minutes" thats odd because according to Ric and his rotations, if you are a starter you are pretty much going to get the most minutes. See how many mins AB has played every since Rafer has came back from his injury. You will see its 60% Rafer and 40% AB. You are suggesting AB get 60% and Rafer get 40%, not going to happen when you do not start.
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#46 » by BaYBaller » Thu Jan 8, 2009 9:18 pm

I could have sworn this is not the first time I've seen Brooks close out a game when Rafer started. Regardless the precedence has already been set either way.

Also about perimeter defense it's not just about staying in front of your man but also making them go where you want them to go, i.e. into the teeth of your defense. Rafer is much, much better on defense than Brooks, both in man-to-man and team defense. If you believe Rafer is a 7 and Brooks is a 5 you overestimate Brooks' defense by a lot. Rafer is an above average defender at his position, while Brooks is below average.

It's tough right now minutes-wise because of the injuries so we need AB's offense on the floor. But it's not like Adelman is going to play Brooks 40 mins. Also in our (fully healthy) starting line-up we still play "JVG ball," but that's not a product of the coach but the players. Adelman has had a much more profound impact on the 2nd unit than the starting one (and which IMO he does not get enough credit for).
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#47 » by Yao_noodle » Thu Jan 8, 2009 9:33 pm

false claims: Rafer is better for this group of players. Rafer organizes offense better. Rafer is a better defender


The fact is: when AB plays as a starting PG or plays more than 30 minutes, good things happen. The offense looks so much better. The opposite PG had worst night against AB. The team is winning.
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#48 » by fisterkev » Fri Jan 9, 2009 4:13 am

I will also jump on this bandwagon. I have been very impressed by Brooks. While I'll miss the energy he brings off the bench, I think he can better serve us starting. The team just seems more threatening when he's out there with the bigs.

That's not to say less of Rafer, just that I'd rather see Brooks start and get more PT than Rafer.
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#49 » by Play_Smart! » Fri Jan 9, 2009 5:00 am

The thing is when TMac is on court you better pair him with Rafer.
1, Rafer is our best team defender at PG. TMac don't give much effort on D. You kinda need Rafer there to make up for TMac.
2, Rafer usually defers to TMac on offense. While Aaron usually don't or don't like it. Aaron wants the ball in his hands to create. I don't think TMac like that either. You can watch the body language.

Personally I'd rather have Aaron with the ball. So count me in.
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#50 » by HTown_TMac » Fri Jan 9, 2009 8:40 am

Play_Smart! wrote:The thing is when TMac is on court you better pair him with Rafer.
1, Rafer is our best team defender at PG. TMac don't give much effort on D. You kinda need Rafer there to make up for TMac.
2, Rafer usually defers to TMac on offense. While Aaron usually don't or don't like it. Aaron wants the ball in his hands to create. I don't think TMac like that either. You can watch the body language.

Personally I'd rather have Aaron with the ball. So count me in.

Aaron goes to T-Mac
Rafer goes elsewhere...

Aaron lets T-Mac get the ball then he waits for the pass back to do anything. Rafer goes to Yao or somewhere else before Tracy.
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Re: The official Start Aaron Brooks bandwagon 

Post#51 » by moofs » Fri Jan 9, 2009 6:27 pm

Yao_noodle wrote:false claims: Rafer is better for this group of players. Rafer organizes offense better. Rafer is a better defender


The fact is: when AB plays as a starting PG or plays more than 30 minutes, good things happen. The offense looks so much better. The opposite PG had worst night against AB. The team is winning.


Must be nice to have the awesome, godlike power of converting opinion to fact, neh? Can you state that I have it as a matter of fact as well? I wanna declare water a solid at room temperature.
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