The Official Brooks vs Alston thread

[HTown_TMac]

Just because Aaron Brooks is so unpredictable, and that's a good thing in this situation... The defense do not know what he will do, and will have to figure out how to guard him.

[MaxRider]

lol
Brooks inconsistent is a good thing
Alston inconsistent is a bad thing
i wonder when will the love of Brooks turn bad

[TMU]

Bench Brooks and start Lowry!

[HTown_TMac]

lol
Brooks inconsistent is a good thing
Alston inconsistent is a bad thing
i wonder when will the love of Brooks turn bad

The love for Brooks is already gone from most posters. Only reason I say it is a good thing, because the defense won't know how to guard him. He gets to the rim better, and more than Alston. Though sometimes he is passive. People still need to realise that he is a 2nd year guard, and we should have known this as soon as the trade went down. He has started 30? games. He has plenty of areas to improve on, but we all knew this before the trade went down, did we not?

[Baller 24]

Alright, I give in Max Rider! After watching Brooks playing pathetic basketball last night, I too miss Rafer Alston.

[MaxRider]

they only pg i missed is Sura

[Guy986]

Say what u will about Alston but the guy knows how to run an offense.

Aaron Brooks is NOT a starting PG in the NBA.

[aamiryou]

Code: Select all

Analysis since the start of this thread (Feb 22)

             Brooks      Alston
Games          19          18       
Minutes        30.0        29.7             
Avg Pts        13.8        12.3           
Avg Ast         3.8         5.1         
Avg Reb         1.8         3.1     
Avg Stl         0.7         2.0       
FG%            41.7        41.0     
FT%            85.1        70.1       
Avg 3s          1.7         1.1   
TOs             1.7         1.8

Always thought the "fairest" comparison would be to Alston's Houston-minus-Tmac numbers -- though there are still some obvious variables (Artest was out some of the games, Shane's play, no stretch of a consistent lineup, etc..). Of course, stats will never capture the whole story (defense, IQ, floor leadership, etc).

But, here are Rafer's numbers over that period:
Min: 34.9
FG%: 37.4
3P%: 40.6
FT%: 76.5
Reb: 3.1
Ast: 6.45
TO: 1.95
Stl: 1.4
Blk: 0.15
PF: 1.45
Pts: 13.3

Again, not a huge difference to his current Orlando numbers but a bit clearer imo. There were 20 games in those stats, and we went 14 and 6 while averaging 104pts and giving up 97.

I don't look at the trade as a dramatic drop off but I would much rather have Rafer in there if I was trying to make a serious run this year.

I still like a lot of what I see out of Lowry but I never will look at bench play as a direct measure of how someone will play as a starter. There are some definite questions there for Lowry (will his lack of an outside shot create spacing issues with Yao? will his fast break ability suffer with our starters? etc). I haven't given up on AB either though... I think it comes down to if he can ever figure things out. He is obviously better when he is aggressive, but is completely lost when it comes to figuring out when he can be aggressive as a starter. The bench makes the most sense for him, but I'm sure the Rockets are hoping he can figure things out, and since we are not going to compete this year he might as well get some practice time in....

[T-Wack]

Well, something to look forward to, if McGrady recovers/is still here next year, is the fact that the two of them play extremely well off each other.

[sook]

Say what u will about Alston but the guy knows how to run an offense.

Aaron Brooks is NOT a starting PG in the NBA.

Starting PG and Rafer is and oxymoron.

The fact is that we have a better record without him. AB played out of sync yesterday, he needs to play HIS game. Like Whack said, he plays extremely well with tracy

[HTown_TMac]

Say what u will about Alston but the guy knows how to run an offense.

Aaron Brooks is NOT a starting PG in the NBA.

Starting PG and Rafer is and oxymoron.

The fact is that we have a better record without him. AB played out of sync yesterday, he needs to play HIS game. Like Whack said, he plays extremely well with tracy

Due to the fact of Tracys playmaking skills.. If Lowry was taller, we could play those 2 together and it would be a nice duo

[Guy986]

Say what u will about Alston but the guy knows how to run an offense.

Aaron Brooks is NOT a starting PG in the NBA.

Starting PG and Rafer is and oxymoron.

The fact is that we have a better record without him. AB played out of sync yesterday, he needs to play HIS game. Like Whack said, he plays extremely well with tracy

We have a better record without Yao last year too.
We have a better record without Tmac this year. Doesn't mean squat.

This year(strictly this year) i would feel much much better about our chances in the playoff with a veteran PG running the show. Brooks is not a starting PG. I dont know if Lowry is one. Hopefully he is.

[sook]

Say what u will about Alston but the guy knows how to run an offense.

Aaron Brooks is NOT a starting PG in the NBA.

Starting PG and Rafer is and oxymoron.

The fact is that we have a better record without him. AB played out of sync yesterday, he needs to play HIS game. Like Whack said, he plays extremely well with tracy

We have a better record without Yao last year too.
We have a better record without Tmac this year. Doesn't mean squat.

This year(strictly this year) i would feel much much better about our chances in the playoff with a veteran PG running the show. Brooks is not a starting PG. I dont know if Lowry is one. Hopefully he is.

Why are you still adhering to Rafer that much. That piece of TRASH had 3-4 years here. Wtf did he ever do? Did he even shoot over 40% one season? Give it a rest ok. Its sad that Brooks is only in his 2nd year and is better for this team.

Even when Brooks shoots bad the rockets don't play that bad. The other team knows he is a good shooter, heck, even Clyde said it, teams BEG rafer to shoot so they double Yao. He doesn't have that problem in Orlando because they are such a good shooting team.

[Guy986]

Rafer may not be one of the better starting PG in this league but , Brooks is NOT a starting point guard at all. I've seen enough. The guy doesn't know what it means to run an offense. He's like a headless chicken out there with tunnel vision whose first priority is to look for his own shot. If he doesn't score, he doesn't contribute to this team. You may hate on Rafer but the guy does the small thing to help his team win. I'll argue that the ONLY thing Brooks currently does better than Rafer is shooting.

I think Brooks' best role for this team should be something similar to what Von Wafer does: instant offense off the bench. He doesn't know how to find the balance between distributing and scoring. Rafer is a pass first PG who couldn't shoot. Brooks is a shoot first PG that couldn't run an offense.

Rafer is doing well for Orlando because he's a good player that brings alot of positive things to the table. U guys just like to look at his weaknesses.

[MaxRider]

Rafer may not be one of the better starting PG in this league but , Brooks is NOT a starting point guard at all. I've seen enough. The guy doesn't know what it means to run an offense. He's like a headless chicken out there with tunnel vision whose first priority is to look for his own shot. If he doesn't score, he doesn't contribute to this team. You may hate on Rafer but the guy does the small thing to help his team win. I'll argue that the ONLY thing Brooks currently does better than Rafer is shooting.

I think Brooks' best role for this team should be something similar to what Von Wafer does: instant offense off the bench. He doesn't know how to find the balance between distributing and scoring. Rafer is a pass first PG who couldn't shoot. Brooks is a shoot first PG that couldn't run an offense.

Rafer is doing well for Orlando because he's a good player that brings alot of positive things to the table. U guys just like to look at his weaknesses.

Good luck trying to tell them. I been trying for the last 3 and a half year and no luck. We will see Brooks hate thread in 1-2 years. Hopefully we are wrong. When T-Mac announced his season ending surgery our front office basically gave up this year, so they rather develop a new starting PG in Brooks or Lowry. The only deal I like is Lowry, but completely gave up this season I don't like. IMO I don't think see Artest can play well with both Yao and T-Mac. We still got pretty good chance at conference final if we have Alston starting instead of Brooks or maybe not. Since what I heard the locker room problem is between Alston and Artest.

[grond]

Good luck trying to tell them. I been trying for the last 3 and a half year and no luck.

Nice perseverance Max. I gave up after a handful of posts

Needless to say, agree with you and Guy986. Hope we're wrong as well. We'll see. One thing is that I doubt Brooks will ever learn to be a distributor/playmaker. He doesn't have the vision or control for it, and I don't think those things are things you can learn at this stage. Either you have 'em, or you don't at his age.

Like a few others I'm hoping for the Parker-lite ceiling to be approached, because one thing he could learn to do better is finish at the rim while being contested. If he could develop a floater, a pull-up J, or just learn to use his body to shield the angle enough to get off a scoop/layup (ala Parker), his speed would actually cause defenses some problems and open up things for others. As it is, he's just not a significant threat when he drives.

[BaYBaller]

My take:

-Especially after T-Mac announced he was out for the season, Brooks would've continued to eat into Alston's minutes regardless because the team needs a penetrator out on the court for offensive balance. Yao + shooters sounds good on paper, but simply fronting Yao completely shuts down that offense.

-Lowry is actually very similar to Alston in a lot of respects. He lacks the experience, but he does some things a lot better than Alston like drawing fouls, something Alston was horrible at. While you can make the arguement that Brooks' inexperience might cause a failure of Luther Head-ish proprotions in the playoffs, I just cannot imagine Lowry not bringing it in the playoffs given what I've seen already.

-I'm not sure what games you're watching Grond but Brooks already has a floater, pull-up J, and knows how to use his body and finish around the rim. He's been doing all those things all season. What he does need to improve on is going left (a concern I pointed out when we drafted him), but he's very strong going to his right.

-The main concern I have with Brooks is his consistency (energy level) on offense, not his passing ability. This team doesn't run a probing, let-the-PG-create-everything type offense.

-At the end of the day, we have no chance of beating LA so a chip is nowhere in sight. In terms of advancing to the 2nd round or the WCF I don't see Alston being here would have significantly increased our chances of getting there (unless T-Mac was healthy).

[grond]

-I'm not sure what games you're watching Grond but Brooks already has a floater, pull-up J, and knows how to use his body and finish around the rim. He's been doing all those things all season. What he does need to improve on is going left (a concern I pointed out when we drafted him), but he's very strong going to his right.

I see that he tries to do these things, but from what I've seen the success to miss/block ratio is not particularly consistent. To me it looks like his moves around the rim are a lot more ad-hoc than practiced, hence my comment re:developing them. Notice how Brooks rarely draws fouls when he drives to the hoop. If he really knew how to use his body the foul/make to block/miss ratio would increase significantly (granted he is short and that makes it more difficult for him). He is better going right, yes, because he can extend his arm and scoop for the layup - but this only works when he is clearly in front of the defending big. When he isn't, he has a tendency to lean away from the defender, thus reducing his chances of getting a foul called and increasing the angle+difficulty of his shot. Also, I really haven't seen him do much mid-range pull up J stuff, except from broken play. Granted I'm usually drinking a little when I watch these games but I don't think my memory is that bad yet - though you're welcome to throw stats and/or anecdotes at me to prove me wrong.

[BaYBaller]

-I'm not sure what games you're watching Grond but Brooks already has a floater, pull-up J, and knows how to use his body and finish around the rim. He's been doing all those things all season. What he does need to improve on is going left (a concern I pointed out when we drafted him), but he's very strong going to his right.

I see that he tries to do these things, but from what I've seen the success to miss/block ratio is not particularly consistent. To me it looks like his moves around the rim are a lot more ad-hoc than practiced, hence my comment re:developing them. Notice how Brooks rarely draws fouls when he drives to the hoop. If he really knew how to use his body the foul/make to block/miss ratio would increase significantly (granted he is short and that makes it more difficult for him). He is better going right, yes, because he can extend his arm and scoop for the layup - but this only works when he is clearly in front of the defending big. When he isn't, he has a tendency to lean away from the defender, thus reducing his chances of getting a foul called and increasing the angle+difficulty of his shot. Also, I really haven't seen him do much mid-range pull up J stuff, except from broken play. Granted I'm usually drinking a little when I watch these games but I don't think my memory is that bad yet - though you're welcome to throw stats and/or anecdotes at me to prove me wrong.

Yeah he doesn't draw a lot of fouls as his focus is clearly avoiding contact and trying to finish rather than Lowry who pretty much has the exact opposite approach of barreling through people in an attempt to get the call. It'd be pretty interesting who actually produces more efficiently around the rim b/w the 2 actually, though I don't know where to look up such a statistic.

What I think you're trying to get at is that Brooks at times forces the issue. That I can agree with. It comes with inexperience. But IMO he is clearly an above average finisher around the rim. He knows how to use his body to keep the ball away from the defender and knows the different angles off the backboard to finish.

I've seen Brooks use the mid-range J and floater enough on as far as I can tell at a fairly high efficiency to know it's in his skillset. Whether it occurs on a broken play or not is not really a slight on Brooks either (not that I believe that because Adelman would take an open mid-range J from Brooks all day every day). Too lazy to look up the stats but maybe somebody else can dig it up for the sake of conversation.

My point however is while we could certainly discuss exactly how good Brooks is around the rim, there is no denying that Brooks (and Lowry, albeit in a much different fashion) is/are clearly a much, much better finisher than Alston, which is the topic of this discussion.

[Vator]

This thread has run its course. Time to move on and look to the future. Not a big fan of Brooks and Lowry is limited, but I'm holding a small glimmer of hope that even if they don't win us any games in the playoffs, they will do just enough good things not to lose us any.