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Question from a Cavs Fan

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jpsteven
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Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#1 » by jpsteven » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:52 am

I had a trade proposal that I wanted to get your opinions on. Before the trade deadline it was reported that Daryl Morey was interested in trading for three centers that included Nene and Anderson Varejao. The Cavs were not interested in trading Andy at the time but will potentially consider offers for him this summer when he is healthy (supposedly around April he should be in full health). Would Houston consider a trade like this over the summer:

Houston:

C Hasheem Thabeet
PF Patrick Patterson
SG Courtney Lee

Cavs:

C Anderson Varejao


I think Andy would be a great fit on Houston you will love the hustle and toughness he brings every game. The reason I thought Houston might be interested in a package like this is because you need a big man, you already have two young backup 4's (Patterson and Hill), and you could easily draft Alec Burks or Jordan Hamilton with your first round pick to take Lee's minutes in the lineup. Thabeet is just a throw in to make the salaries work and give the Cavs another big to help take Andy's minutes. Cavs are completely rebuilding and need to gather younger assets. Houston moves closer to contending next year especially if Yao is able to make it back.

Let me know if you think it is fair value or you think it is overpaying. The Cavs organization and coaching staff really values Andy and we are not going to give him away but for a good mix of young assets we are open to considering it. I wish you all the best for the rest of this year and hope you can squeak into that eighth seed.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#2 » by Kal El » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:06 am

good role player but i wouldn't do it. long contract and were giving away rookie patrick patterson whos probably going to end up being as productive as andy. and were not going to trade hasheem thabeet yet until were absolutely sure he wont develop into anything decent lol.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#3 » by TMU » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:22 am

So how is this trade fair when,

Courtney Lee: former 1st-round pick
Hasheem Thabeet: former 1st-round pick
Patrick Patterson: former 1st-round pick

Anderson Varejao: former 2nd-round pick
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#4 » by MaxRider » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:22 am

hell no
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#5 » by x- » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:31 am

Thanks.

Varejao is definitely a player our FO seems to value, but you won't get Lee AND Patterson for him.

It was reported that while the Bulls were offering two first rounders for Lee, Morey was asking for Omer Asik and the Charlotte 2012 first rounder.
Patterson was sixth on our draft board last year and we lucked out getting him at #14. Both our FO, as well as most of the fans are very high on him. I might be in the minorty, but at this point I'd rather trade Scola than Patterson.

I also think that at the trade deadline things changed as far as the direction we're headed in. We probably would still be interested in 'older' role players Varejao if we'd able to get them for good value, but the priority is probably elsewhere.

Anyways. Good luck the rest of the season. I'll root for you guys to successfully rebuild quickly.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#6 » by jpsteven » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:42 am

Alright sometimes fans overvalue their own players and I think most Cavs fans (including myself) overvalue Andy somewhat. We've seen what he brings to a championship contender over the years on a nightly basis and know his value to a winning team. What kind of offer would you be willing to make for Andy because Morey definitely has shown a lot of interest in him? I know you have several firsts over the next couple years and young assets.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#7 » by rocketsballin » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:04 am

we need a starting shotblocking defensive center (preferably black). if we get andy we will never get that. i'm so **** tired of our undersized lineups, all you gotta do is drive in against us. we never really had a consistent shot blocker in the yao/tmac era thx to horrible injuries.

we also cant give up 3 first rounders for andy. i do think hasheem could eventually 5/5/1 type of player which is good for a backup center. lee could be a lot better if we get that starting center and an all star/superstar. and patrick will be a solid role player, scoring, rebounding and showing some DEFENSE!

i hope morey doesnt get someone like andy over a starting defensive shot blocker. andy and scola wont get **** done on defense, same w/ hayes. that's the cold hard truth i hope morey isnt too stupid to know. when someone like scola starts at pf and plays most of those minutes, you need the appropriate defensive big at center next to him, or your defense will never be good.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#8 » by jpsteven » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:12 am

Thanks for your input man. If thats the case maybe Andy isn't what your looking for in a center and I understand your point. Best of luck again guys and hope you make the playoffs.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#9 » by tisbee » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:29 pm

Huge mistake by Rockets not demanding Varejao in the McGrady/Francis trade. I firmly believe Varejao would have been the player to push Rockets past Dallas that first yr.(Andy would have been defending Dirk,and he would have thrived in pick-n-rolls w/McGrady. Sigh.)

Anyhow,I could see a Hill,Thabeet for Andy trade,but it would depend on what the Rockets think the new CBA will look like.
I'm likely alone here,but I think Martin gets traded during Draft as package to move up. In that case Lee will be our starting SG,and even if that doesn't happen,Lee has shown he's too valuable as 6th man for Rockets to move him.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#10 » by Aaron Brooks » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:21 pm

God, I hope you're right about the Martin thing :pray:
baki wrote:Harden is essentially a very good role player, he's not a franchise player.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#11 » by jpsteven » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:49 pm

Guys while I am still here I had a question for you. How has Terrance Williams been playing since the Battier trade? The guy has a lot of talent and I hope he figures things out eventually. I know Budinger and Lee have really improved since the all star break but I haven't heard about Williams.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#12 » by tisbee » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:10 pm

Quick answer-he hasn't.
Adelman has him anchored to the bench. Unless it's a 30 point blow-out w/4 minutes to go,Williams isn't playing.
He had a brief 2 game try-out period and in the second game Adelman benched him for Second Half and hasn't played him except for blow-out garbage time.(Mental bet I won w/myself-Adelman went to a two-PG line-up before he would try Williams again. In last game Lowry and Dragic saw quite a few minutes on court together.)

In the time he's been on court,Williams has shown he can get past his man on perimeter and get into lane at will. Unfortunately he's also shown he has no idea what to do once there. He's been fading away on his jumpers,rushing his in close attempts and passing wildly. Has been making almost no effort in moving off the ball and shows little interest in D.In his last game he played more under control and actually looked pretty good in his garbage minutes.
You can see he has the tools,good court vision,athleticism,quickness,hops,explosiveness. But he just hasn't shown that he gets the NBA is a team game,requiring mental discipline,not a glorified pick-up game.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#13 » by rocketsballin » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:45 pm

i dont think it's gonna work out for us. maybe later in his career when he's on another team, but now he's too stubborn to play a team game. he complains a lot on twitter, it's actually entertaining stuff you should read some of it. maybe the best tweet against his playing time got deleted. said something like "going to houston for better place no no no grass is dirty on the other side."
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#14 » by MaxRider » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:14 pm

tisbee wrote:Quick answer-he hasn't.
Adelman has him anchored to the bench. Unless it's a 30 point blow-out w/4 minutes to go,Williams isn't playing.
He had a brief 2 game try-out period and in the second game Adelman benched him for Second Half and hasn't played him except for blow-out garbage time.(Mental bet I won w/myself-Adelman went to a two-PG line-up before he would try Williams again. In last game Lowry and Dragic saw quite a few minutes on court together.)

In the time he's been on court,Williams has shown he can get past his man on perimeter and get into lane at will. Unfortunately he's also shown he has no idea what to do once there. He's been fading away on his jumpers,rushing his in close attempts and passing wildly. Has been making almost no effort in moving off the ball and shows little interest in D.In his last game he played more under control and actually looked pretty good in his garbage minutes.
You can see he has the tools,good court vision,athleticism,quickness,hops,explosiveness. But he just hasn't shown that he gets the NBA is a team game,requiring mental discipline,not a glorified pick-up game.


problem with T-Will is he's not playing as a team
always try to go iso
i see us trading him to Miami
they play iso all the time
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#15 » by moofs » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:41 pm

x- wrote:I might be in the minorty, but at this point I'd rather trade Scola than Patterson.


You might be in the minority, but you're also absolutely right in your call.

I loves me some Scola, but facts is facts, he's 30, and we're reloading for likely at least 1-2 years. Scola's value to us is to hold the ship down until we can get that done. If we can use him to get an upgrade (again, Scola at current is only slightly inferior to Chris Bosh, but Bosh is also not a franchise player), he's on a very nice contract, and it would almost have to be done, especially given Scola's age and being ever-so-slightly subpar at rebounding. If not, he should be a good piece to still have around when we finish reloading.

The unfortunate side is that it's going to be tough to find anyone who wants to give away a top-tier player for a second tier player + [role player /+ draft picks /+ cash] combo. The Carmello situation would have been PERFECT for that if Denver had gone for any of our packages (and Carmello was actually a top tier player).

Side note:
I'm disappointed to see all these wiretap notes of "GM looking to rebuild through the draft, like Sam Presti"
1. Rebuilding through the draft is an OLD strategy, how's it being talked about like a new one?
2. It might make it harder for Morey to wick away picks from these previously mismanged clubs
Morey 2020.

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A:Ask a stock market analyst or your financial advisor
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#16 » by tisbee » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:53 am

Moofs,you're missing the point of the "Sam Presti" strategy. It took him several yrs to get OKC a contender,so any GM playing that card is really saying you shouldn't fire me for the next 3 yrs because that's how long it will take.

BTW,Portland takes Durant and OKC takes Oden. How would the Presti Plan look now?

I'm torn on Scola. Patterson isn't ready yet,and I don't think he'll be an low-post player like Luis for a while. Patterson is looking more like a great complementary PF,not a go-to guy. Plus Scola is so competitive,it helps the team,and it's culture/identity.
Normally I'd say it would depend on who next yrs Center will be. If it's a scoring C,I'd want Patterson starting and Scola given a chance elsewhere. If it's a defensive C,you need Scola's inside scoring.
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Re: Question from a Cavs Fan 

Post#17 » by grond » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:51 am

tisbee wrote: I'm torn on Scola. Patterson isn't ready yet,and I don't think he'll be an low-post player like Luis for a while. Patterson is looking more like a great complementary PF,not a go-to guy. Plus Scola is so competitive,it helps the team,and it's culture/identity.
Normally I'd say it would depend on who next yrs Center will be. If it's a scoring C,I'd want Patterson starting and Scola given a chance elsewhere. If it's a defensive C,you need Scola's inside scoring.


True, true. Ideally, we keep both, start Luis, but vary the minutes depending on requirement/matchup.

Next years C? Highly dependant on the coach imo. Not really a lot of C's to be had + we have viable options on our roster already, again depending upon how the coach wants to roll. I suspect whoever it is is unlikely to be particularly experienced. Therefore, Scola is a better choice. But, I am biased. I love Scola's game.

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