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T-Mac Officially Retires

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spolgar
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Re: T-Mac Officially Retires 

Post#21 » by spolgar » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:11 pm

Yeah, if people start jumping up and down and say:

'Players win games. Organizations win championships', then I think it's only fair that playoff success be adjusted somewhat to the skill set of team management.

Pipe Dream Alert:

Suppose you have a) a high PER player, implying someone that fills up the box score at a good clip per minute b) mediocre wins for the team and c) over the span of this player's stay in this organization, there were no other high PER players.

If we recorded instances of such, perhaps we could score organizations that are out to win vs doing something else. We can't really see if an organization is making money or not, we can hazard a guess based on their forbes evaluation of franchise worth, but that stuff is really inflated at times. But we can tell if an organizations brings in more their one player that can produce on a spreadsheet, we can use that as an identifier to that at least these organizations are putting some effort into forming a decent core of players, which is consistent with being a winning organization. Then we can correlate salary spent on said core with playoff wins, and we ought to be able to see the success rate of a return of investment, say money put in vs wins produced.

And I suspect, the Rockets organization pre Daryl Morey would've ranked pretty high on effort while ranked pretty low on success. I don't think anyone can blame McGrady on Yao's or Grant Hill's injuries.

Hey Moofs, you wanna teach me how to write stored procedures? :)
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Re: T-Mac Officially Retires 

Post#22 » by RocketsSocial » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:14 pm

What could have been with Yao and Tracy
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Re: T-Mac Officially Retires 

Post#23 » by moofs » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:08 pm

What, you have a database with this stuff available?
Gimme access.

I don't want to bother building my own.
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A:Ask a stock market analyst or your financial advisor
spolgar
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Re: T-Mac Officially Retires 

Post#24 » by spolgar » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:49 pm

moofs wrote:What, you have a database with this stuff available?
Gimme access.

I don't want to bother building my own.


Haha. I figured I'll just load from commonly available csvs. If I get any traction over this weekend, I'll get back to you.
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Re: T-Mac Officially Retires 

Post#25 » by rockmanslim » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:48 pm

spolgar wrote:I think it's kinda sad. A peak TMAC would be a top 2-3 shooting guard, a 2-3 small forward and probably a top 10 point guard in any era. To say that he could do whatever he wanted to, by way of incredible athleticism, savvy and dexterity, would be an understatement.

I figure that popular opinion probably wouldn't count him as a top 10 shooting guard of all time. His greatness on the court simply does not reduce well onto a resume. In 5 years, most of those starting out in their nba fandom will judge his ability by way of grainy youtube clips. He would've lead the league in scoring once, have some gaudy numbers, no playoff wins, let alone championships.

But in most people's top 10, there are Jordan, Bryant, West and Oscar. These 4 are immutable. Then in many, there's some combination of Drexler, Pearl, Gervin, Maravich, Dumars, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller and Sam Jones.

To me, to account for greatness, I don't think having an outstanding resume is good enough. You have to change how the game is played. With that in regard, those that made and broke their position come first. In that list, Maravich counts, so does Gervin and Pearl, and to a degree, Miller and Sam Jones. The last spot goes to TMAC.



I like that word you used, dexterity.

I'd say T-Mac is the 3rd most dexterous player I've ever seen play. Outside of Webster's definition, I don't really have a concrete definition for what I personally mean by "dexterous," but it's somewhere along the lines of skilled, can score from anywhere with ease, go anywhere he wants with ease, complete control of the ball, complete control of the ball flight, a shooting stroke that is both pretty and portable, smooth, agile, athletic, iso moves out the wazoo. Like a mobile, athletic pro golfer I guess. That's the kind of shot making ability (and shot creating ability) I'm referring to. You kind of know it when you see it. Dexterity results in an aesthetically pleasing style, I guess is what I'm saying.

My list of most dexterous players I've ever seen (disclaimer: I'm not that old):

1. Jordan
2. Hakeem
3. T-Mac
4. Kyrie

Kobe would fall just outside my top 4. :)

Gee, my list of most dexterous players happens to match my list of favorite players. Coincidence? I think not!
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Re: T-Mac Officially Retires 

Post#26 » by moofs » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:46 pm

spolgar wrote:
moofs wrote:What, you have a database with this stuff available?
Gimme access.

I don't want to bother building my own.


Haha. I figured I'll just load from commonly available csvs. If I get any traction over this weekend, I'll get back to you.


Reason #1 I'd want database access: answering this question
viewtopic.php?p=15010616#p15010616
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Re: T-Mac Officially Retires 

Post#27 » by JordansBulls » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:22 pm

Man will certainly miss this guy. Wish he got that ring last year. Was 30 seconds away from it. Damn you Poppovich for not putting in Tmac instead of Manu and taking out Duncan for freaking Diaw.
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