Jeremy Lin's role on the Team

[Klazart]

13th man is spot on the money. If you wanted to you could listen to McHale's interviews throughout last season and see his attitude towards Lin. And this off season he all but called Linsanity a fluke.

He has treated Lin terribly and you can be guaranteed that Lin will not resign with the Rockets. He might even force a trade out of the team. It's a shame for tithe rockets because Lin has the potential to be that third star, but the treatment he has received from Mchale and the Rocket's fan base has ensured this will not happen.

[KungFuJoe]

I'm one of the biggest Lin's fans.
Lin isn't a final product yet.
Lin is the type of players who needs to be developed as a long term project rather than use him as if he is a final product.
So what seems to be the team under utilizing him at the moment still makes sense to me due to his recent knee injury (yes a recent injury since knee injury is no joke) and how the team is set up.
Overall, I trust the Rockets organization even though I seldome question McHale's coaching ability.
Also, the coach is hard on him because he has so much upside and loses his composure due to a big disappoint after a fail assignment.
It's like you get disspointed at the smartest kids in the bunch but you let it slide with the kids with IQ of rock.

I've read most of your posts and I think you're a good, objective poster...but I think you're way off on how McHale treats him. Yes...you push the guys with potential harder than the others...that goes without saying. But "pushing" is different than yelling and screaming and throwing a fit then pulling you out after a steal attempt. I mean...really? A steal attempt. Yes, a dumb play...but who gets pulled out for something like that when it only happens ONCE. And he was already playing excellent defense on Conley! I could understand if Conley was lighting him up and then he went for the steal on Johnson...but c'mon...really?

And then Harden gets blown by on the very next play by the very same person. If YOU were Lin and you just got pulled and yelled at and you sit on the bench and you see that next play and McHale saying NOTHING...tell me...how do YOU feel? I'd be seriously **** pissed.

Yelling and screaming and nitpicking every little mistake is NOT how you develop a young player. That's how you make someone too scared to even make a move...at least it would be for someone who wasn't very mentally strong. Luckily, Lin doesn't seem to apply here...but imagine what someone with the mental make up of a JR Smith or Cousins would do.

[Klazart]

I'm one of the biggest Lin's fans.
Lin isn't a final product yet.
Lin is the type of players who needs to be developed as a long term project rather than use him as if he is a final product.
So what seems to be the team under utilizing him at the moment still makes sense to me due to his recent knee injury (yes a recent injury since knee injury is no joke) and how the team is set up.
Overall, I trust the Rockets organization even though I seldome question McHale's coaching ability.
Also, the coach is hard on him because he has so much upside and loses his composure due to a big disappoint after a fail assignment.
It's like you get disspointed at the smartest kids in the bunch but you let it slide with the kids with IQ of rock.

I've read most of your posts and I think you're a good, objective poster...but I think you're way off on how McHale treats him. Yes...you push the guys with potential harder than the others...that goes without saying. But "pushing" is different than yelling and screaming and throwing a fit then pulling you out after a steal attempt. I mean...really? A steal attempt. Yes, a dumb play...but who gets pulled out for something like that when it only happens ONCE. And he was already playing excellent defense on Conley! I could understand if Conley was lighting him up and then he went for the steal on Johnson...but c'mon...really?

And then Harden gets blown by on the very next play by the very same person. If YOU were Lin and you just got pulled and yelled at and you sit on the bench and you see that next play and McHale saying NOTHING...tell me...how do YOU feel? I'd be seriously **** pissed.

Yelling and screaming and nitpicking every little mistake is NOT how you develop a young player. That's how you make someone too scared to even make a move...at least it would be for someone who wasn't very mentally strong. Luckily, Lin doesn't seem to apply here...but imagine what someone with the mental make up of a JR Smith or Cousins would do.

Many a young player would have been unable to cope with McHale's treatment and attempts to marginalise them. Luckily, Lin has been treated like this all his life and has incredible mental strength. Mchale has repeatedly forced him to play to his weakness and Lin has responded every time.

Imagine Mchale making Harden or Bev do what they are weak at and bench them after every mistake.

Bev can shoot 1-10 get lit up and still play 40 minutes.

[panarama]

I'm one of the biggest Lin's fans.
Lin isn't a final product yet.
Lin is the type of players who needs to be developed as a long term project rather than use him as if he is a final product.
So what seems to be the team under utilizing him at the moment still makes sense to me due to his recent knee injury (yes a recent injury since knee injury is no joke) and how the team is set up.
Overall, I trust the Rockets organization even though I seldome question McHale's coaching ability.
Also, the coach is hard on him because he has so much upside and loses his composure due to a big disappoint after a fail assignment.
It's like you get disspointed at the smartest kids in the bunch but you let it slide with the kids with IQ of rock.

I've read most of your posts and I think you're a good, objective poster...but I think you're way off on how McHale treats him. Yes...you push the guys with potential harder than the others...that goes without saying. But "pushing" is different than yelling and screaming and throwing a fit then pulling you out after a steal attempt. I mean...really? A steal attempt. Yes, a dumb play...but who gets pulled out for something like that when it only happens ONCE. And he was already playing excellent defense on Conley! I could understand if Conley was lighting him up and then he went for the steal on Johnson...but c'mon...really?

And then Harden gets blown by on the very next play by the very same person. If YOU were Lin and you just got pulled and yelled at and you sit on the bench and you see that next play and McHale saying NOTHING...tell me...how do YOU feel? I'd be seriously **** pissed.

Yelling and screaming and nitpicking every little mistake is NOT how you develop a young player. That's how you make someone too scared to even make a move...at least it would be for someone who wasn't very mentally strong. Luckily, Lin doesn't seem to apply here...but imagine what someone with the mental make up of a JR Smith or Cousins would do.

Many a young player would have been unable to cope with McHale's treatment and attempts to marginalise them. Luckily, Lin has been treated like this all his life and has incredible mental strength. Mchale has repeatedly forced him to play to his weakness and Lin has responded every time.

Imagine Mchale making Harden or Bev do what they are weak at and bench them after every mistake.

Bev can shoot 1-10 get lit up and still play 40 minutes.

I totally understand where you guys are coming from.
But we must understand it's nothing personal. Besides, between McHale and Lin, the body language tells me, they are very close.

McHale says, run the ball, play the defense repeatly during a tight game instruction instead of specifically instruct eachplayers what, where, when, how to do on the floor because our first option will do what fits his fancy.

Whether Lin haters believe it or not but McHale uses Lin as a measuring stick to have our guys follow his scheme eventhough the instruction can get harsh at time.

Also, I'm not saying Lin can execute it perfectly what McHale wants to do most of time due to his inexprience as a floor general in NBA level but McHale knows Lin won't turn his back like how Harden did numerous times on him when asking for accountablity in harsh manner.

[minimalist1972]

Does anyone know the following?

1. % of wins by team with Lin starting vs Lin off bench
2. Bench production with Lin starting vs Lin off bench
3. Per 36 Min production for Lin starting vs off bench

Given how stats-oriented this team is, the above numbers might shed some light on coaching and managerial decisions for this team. I'm guessing these numbers do favor playing Lin off the bench.

I couldn't help but agree with ZBo that the Grizz game turned out to be a Rox win because of lop-sided officiating. It's ridiculous that Harden got 22 out of his 27 points at the stripe--historically unprecedented. Harden's a genius at getting to the line, but that stat line is just absurd. Lin came through big in the fourth, but it would have been pointless if the calls hadn't gone Harden's way.

Also--and again, I'm a Lin fan and I know he is clutch and that, historically, the fourth has been Lin's best quarter--given how he played the first three quarters, I must say that I totally empathize with McHale's frustration. In fact, there have been countless games last season when Lin just sucked for long stretches. And if I were a coach trying to keep my job and I'm confronted with the decision of having to bench Lin for crap play going into the fourth or take the risk of letting him finish it out on nothing but the belief that he is clutch, I'm not sure I wouldn't do what McHale started doing last season.

Further, Lin's always been a bit of a showboat. I think he's gotten better at that this year, but he still tries a lot of fancy passing and stuff; and if I'm an old school dude like McHale, whose success as a player resulted from solid fundamentals, I'd be weary of all that glamorous stuff too.

Moreover, McHale won 6MOY twice, back-to-back. The important point there is that he did it in consecutive years. In other words, by winning 6MOY he DIDN'T get promoted to a starter. I think McHale truly values that role on a team.

Finally, I do agree that there is something excessive and exceptional about how much McHale screams at Lin. There might be some kind of racial component; and, if there were, it wouldn't surprise me. McHale's a 56-year old American jock. Historically, those guys have had very little experience dealing with Asian-Americans, and he's just not self-aware about it. But, really, I don't think it's like that at all. In addition to the above considerations, Lin is ironically both not good enough (unlike Dwight and Harden) and too important for the team as a whole to have his mistakes tolerated. In other words, Lin is the best point guard in a system that's not built around the point guard but still requires the PG to be effective on both sides of the floor. Put yet another way, I think Kyle Lowry would have gotten yelled at a lot by McHale as well.

[LarsV8]

There might be some kind of racial component; and, if there were, it wouldn't surprise me. McHale's a 56-year old American jock. Historically, those guys have had very little experience dealing with Asian-Americans, and he's just not self-aware about it. But, really, I don't think it's like that at all. In addition to the above considerations, Lin is ironically both not good enough (unlike Dwight and Harden) and too important for the team as a whole to have his mistakes tolerated. In other words, Lin is the best point guard in a system that's not built around the point guard but still requires the PG to be effective on both sides of the floor. Put yet another way, I think Kyle Lowry would have gotten yelled at a lot by McHale as well.

Stop talking about race.

FFS

[minimalist1972]

There might be some kind of racial component; and, if there were, it wouldn't surprise me. McHale's a 56-year old American jock. Historically, those guys have had very little experience dealing with Asian-Americans, and he's just not self-aware about it. But, really, I don't think it's like that at all. In addition to the above considerations, Lin is ironically both not good enough (unlike Dwight and Harden) and too important for the team as a whole to have his mistakes tolerated. In other words, Lin is the best point guard in a system that's not built around the point guard but still requires the PG to be effective on both sides of the floor. Put yet another way, I think Kyle Lowry would have gotten yelled at a lot by McHale as well.

Stop talking about race.

FFS

I'll talk about whatever I want. But thanks.

[LarsV8]

This is a basketball forum. Talk about basketball.

If you want to talk about race, there are plenty of places for you do it, but not here, This is not the forum for that.

Your basketball points about Lin are fine. There is no need to insert comments about race into that post other than to cause problems here.

[Maudlin17]

:roll:


Beverly is a better defender than Lin and Lin ignites the second unit. Lin also has plenty to keep working on.. this is a crazy Lin bias, but I guess it's to be expected.


This is not Lin vs The World. Lin is part of the Rockets TEAM and McHale and Co. is still searching for combinations that lead to wins, especially with all the injuries.

But I guess when you really want to see something, you'll start "seeing" it, even though it's not there. Lin is earning a spot like every other player in the NBA and is improving under McHale. Lin is not the first player to have his PT messed with and as he EARNS more time, he'll get more time.

Curious...how exactly did Beverley earn his starting spot?

[adrenaLINe]

There might be some kind of racial component; and, if there were, it wouldn't surprise me. McHale's a 56-year old American jock. Historically, those guys have had very little experience dealing with Asian-Americans, and he's just not self-aware about it. But, really, I don't think it's like that at all. In addition to the above considerations, Lin is ironically both not good enough (unlike Dwight and Harden) and too important for the team as a whole to have his mistakes tolerated. In other words, Lin is the best point guard in a system that's not built around the point guard but still requires the PG to be effective on both sides of the floor. Put yet another way, I think Kyle Lowry would have gotten yelled at a lot by McHale as well.

Stop talking about race.

FFS

yes we know you never talk about his race... but we all know your perceptions about Lin are based on his race..

you will just never admit it.

Posts like this one are not acceptable -Vator-

[Vator]

General warning to get back on topic...warnings will be given if you chose not to. This is NOT the forum to discuss whatever your perceptions of racial bias or stereotypes are in relation to Jeremy Lin or any other player for that matter. Discuss basketball.

Also, I'm growing tired of the faction of posters that accuse other posters of not liking Lin due to his ethnicity when there is no evidence to support such. Everybody is not a Jeremy Lin fan so just deal with it. He is a good player, but he is also flawed like every other player on the team. There are people who don't like Dwight and Harden and I don't see people screaming racism. There are people that think Parsons is just an average player and some who think he is a future all star. Are the people who call him average racist against white people? Crying racism or bias due to Lin's ethnicity without proof of such just makes you look less credible as a poster. Stick to the facts.

[Mr. E]

yes we know you never talk about his race... but we all know your perceptions about Lin are based on his race..

you will just never admit it.

You know what?

That's it.

I'm done.

At least for tonight.

You just flat-out accused another poster of being a Racist. You did not offer any proof, but only pointed to an inferred sense that you believe based upon the other poster's history.

You can argue that you have been led into this due to the nature of said exchanges.

Me, personally - I will take the responsibility on this one. For too long and in too many instances I have - as a Mod at this site - allowed some clearly actionable things to take place because I have wanted to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I have wanted to foster an environment where we can all discuss any and all situations regarding our Rockets and all of the players on the roster. This is a low-traffic forum, and I wanted nothing more than to bring as many people in as we could in order to build a nice little community here at RealGM who had one thing in common - Rockets Basketball.

This attitude - led by me and solely my responsibility - has created an environment where it is basically a Grammar School classroom with all of the student snitching to Teacher about what everyone else is doing.

I asked posters to avoid getting into confrontations by reporting posts rather than replying to problems...only to get said posts reported along with replies to said posts by those reporting it.

I'm tired of it.

I am locking this thread. Not permanently - I am only locking it for tonight because I am so freaking sick and tired of dealing with issues from this thread and it's horrible predecessor. I will re-open it tomorrow morning.


We are all better than this.

And for the record - great win by our TEAM tonight.

[TMACFORMVP]

Me, personally - I will take the responsibility on this one. For too long and in too many instances I have - as a Mod at this site - allowed some clearly actionable things to take place because I have wanted to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I have wanted to foster an environment where we can all discuss any and all situations regarding our Rockets and all of the players on the roster. This is a low-traffic forum, and I wanted nothing more than to bring as many people in as we could in order to build a nice little community here at RealGM who had one thing in common - Rockets Basketball.

This attitude - led by me and solely my responsibility - has created an environment where it is basically a Grammar School classroom with all of the student snitching to Teacher about what everyone else is doing.
.

I fully support this, and wouldn't mind if the thread was permanently locked either - or at least longer than a day. It's gotten to a point where posters are just baselessly attacking each other.

Accusations like being racist shouldn't be tolerated. And that's where I have to take the blame too. I honestly let too many things go for the same reasons (giving the benefit of doubt or thinking it isn't a big deal). But all of this has been brewing for a while now, and it only adds up. If you can't post without insinuating something about another poster, then don't post at all is my take on the situation.