3&D Player Thread

[Lorenzomax7]

Jones is not a perimeter guy actually. But I agree with most of what you said.

Is anybody interested in xRAPM? Let it show how good a contending team should be:

Full size #1 : http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/large/81a664dcgw1 ... 2v3qi4.jpg
Full size #2 : http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/81a664dcgw1 ... 31ab29.jpg

#1

Spoiler:

#2

Spoiler:

I actually was thinking along the lines of LMA killing us with 15-20 ft jumpers as weak perimeter defense, but the thought crossed my mind to specify PF as well to prevent confusion. But my miscommunication and semantics aside, I agree with you.

Very cool data, thanks. Is this yours or from a source?

One question, is there any data on Asik or Tony Allen?

Also, I like advanced stats, but even the best ones often have flaws when looked upon without context. For example competition level, the impact of coaching scheme etc.

Judging from what you have though (which is great), PF role-players who could fit that need are guys like Taj Gibson or Amir Johnson.

(This next section isn't directed specifically at you Lorenzomax, it's just to share data for anyone who's interested about why we might have 3&D needs as well.)

We also need three point shooting along with PF & perimeter defense.

We have the #1 3pt attempts in the league regular season, but shot only a mediocre 16th in the league in 3pt FG%. We lack true shooters for the type of offense we run.

This is what killed us in the playoffs, we shot 32% (if you take out Troy Daniel's 53%, we shot around 29%) from 3pters and Portland stayed around thier 3pt average of 37%.

LMA was destroying Jones, true. But he went off on us in the regular season and we won 3-1 in the series. The biggest difference as Lillard. We had no adjustment for him unlike starting Asik on LMA to slow him down.

LMA vs Houston RS:

26.8 ppg 15.5 rpg .499% TS
Ortg 114 Drtg 109

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/splits/2014/

Lillard vs Houston RS

18.8 ppg 5.0 apg .423 3pt% .555% TS
Ortg 101 Drtg 123

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lillada01/splits/2014/

LMA vs Hou PO (green is an increase, red decrease)

29.8 ppg 11.2 rpg .546% TS
Ortg 119 Drtg 113

Lillard vs Hou PO

25.5 ppg 6.7 apg .489 3pt% .655% TS
Ortg 135 Drtg 117

LMA's TS% was .499% RS and .546% PO +.047%
Lillard's TS% was .555% RS and .665% PO +.100%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2014_WC1.html#HOU-POR

In short, we made adjustments and slowed LMA down with Asik starting, but we had no answer for Lillard with Bev sick.

I think we very much need a defensive PF if Asik leaves and badly need a 3&D perimeter player for all the top PGs and wing players in the NBA we could face in the postseason.

The primary goal for Morey this summer should be finding a star PF no matter what. 3&D wing-man is the second goal. I think we should consider Crowder @ Mavs. He is an underdog in my book.

[Lorenzomax7]

Jones is not a perimeter guy actually. But I agree with most of what you said.

Is anybody interested in xRAPM? Let it show how good a contending team should be:

Full size #1 : http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/large/81a664dcgw1 ... 2v3qi4.jpg
Full size #2 : http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/81a664dcgw1 ... 31ab29.jpg

#1

Spoiler:

#2

Spoiler:

I actually was thinking along the lines of LMA killing us with 15-20 ft jumpers as weak perimeter defense, but the thought crossed my mind to specify PF as well to prevent confusion. But my miscommunication and semantics aside, I agree with you.

Very cool data, thanks. Is this yours or from a source?

One question, is there any data on Asik or Tony Allen?

Also, I like advanced stats, but even the best ones often have flaws when looked upon without context. For example competition level, the impact of coaching scheme etc.

Judging from what you have though (which is great), PF role-players who could fit that need are guys like Taj Gibson or Amir Johnson.

(This next section isn't directed specifically at you Lorenzomax, it's just to share data for anyone who's interested about why we might have 3&D needs as well.)

We also need three point shooting along with PF & perimeter defense.

We have the #1 3pt attempts in the league regular season, but shot only a mediocre 16th in the league in 3pt FG%. We lack true shooters for the type of offense we run.

This is what killed us in the playoffs, we shot 32% (if you take out Troy Daniel's 53%, we shot around 29%) from 3pters and Portland stayed around thier 3pt average of 37%.

LMA was destroying Jones, true. But he went off on us in the regular season and we won 3-1 in the series. The biggest difference as Lillard. We had no adjustment for him unlike starting Asik on LMA to slow him down.

LMA vs Houston RS:

26.8 ppg 15.5 rpg .499% TS
Ortg 114 Drtg 109

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/splits/2014/

Lillard vs Houston RS

18.8 ppg 5.0 apg .423 3pt% .555% TS
Ortg 101 Drtg 123

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lillada01/splits/2014/

LMA vs Hou PO (green is an increase, red decrease)

29.8 ppg 11.2 rpg .546% TS
Ortg 119 Drtg 113

Lillard vs Hou PO

25.5 ppg 6.7 apg .489 3pt% .655% TS
Ortg 135 Drtg 117

LMA's TS% was .499% RS and .546% PO +.047%
Lillard's TS% was .555% RS and .665% PO +.100%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2014_WC1.html#HOU-POR

In short, we made adjustments and slowed LMA down with Asik starting, but we had no answer for Lillard with Bev sick.

I think we very much need a defensive PF if Asik leaves and badly need a 3&D perimeter player for all the top PGs and wing players in the NBA we could face in the postseason.

The primary goal for Morey this summer should be finding a star PF no matter what. 3&D wing-man is the second goal. I think we should consider Crowder @ Mavs. He is an underdog in my book.

BTW, those stats are all collected from J.E.'s xRAPM stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com

[ChokeFasncists]

I hear you that Avery Bradley may not be a consistent overall offensive player. But he improved significantly this season, shooting the most 3ptrs of his career this year and hit .395%. Besides Troy Daniels, that would make him the best 3pt shooter on our current roster.

What's wrong with Beverley's defense? He was hurt and sick in the playoffs against Lillard if that's what you're looking at, but when he's healthy his on ball defense is very good. If you value statistics, by most metrics he's a top flight defender at the PG position.

If Avery's defense is like that, I definitely think we could use more of that. Avery also made the All Defensive second team last year.

He has improved this season but still pretty inconsistent, he was good few years ago and then dropped off and then got better. If he can sustain it for another year I'd start calling him a 3 and D guy. Bev's D is fine. What I meant was that we might not want too defender specialists that are too similar. It certainly wouldn't hurt but it'd be inefficient. I think we'd benefit more from a bigger wing defender that can defend elite swingmen, guys like Kawai, Deng or DMC.

Yeah that's true, I also don't think we really need the expensive guys unless Parsons, Lin or Asik gets traded to free up cap-space. It also depends what bigger moves we possibly make this off-season and how everything would fit.

Lol, yeah one more poison pill and we'd have to nickname Morey "The Pharmacist" or something.

~lol~

It'd be real nice if we could get Deng. There's rumor that the Mavs are going for him. It'd be scary with him, Dirk, Monta and Rick!

[Lorenzomax7]

Draymond Green and Jae Crowder anyone？

[texasholdem]

How about a James Harden/Lance Stephenson starting backcourt? Mad Max II

[quatin]

How about a James Harden/Lance Stephenson starting backcourt? Mad Max II

I think Stephenson will be in the $8-$10 million range. We can't sign both Parsons and Stephenson to long term contracts. I would keep Parsons, because he's got the size to be a tweener 3/4.

[90sAllDecade]

I like the Mad Max 2 comparison for Stepheson lol. Honestly, if this team had a little more veteran experience, I'd take him. Remember the toughness and perimeter defense Artest brought to that 09' team?

But quatin's right that we likely can't afford him and who knows if he'd be willing to come off the bench? It's an interesting suggestion though.

[texasholdem]

How about a James Harden/Lance Stephenson starting backcourt? Mad Max II

I think Stephenson will be in the $8-$10 million range. We can't sign both Parsons and Stephenson to long term contracts. I would keep Parsons, because he's got the size to be a tweener 3/4.

We don't have to resign Parsons until next summer. Maybe a sign and trade for Indiana of Stephenson for Asik? They can't be happy with Roy Hibbert right now. I'm not 100% sold on Lance but it would make things interesting for sure.

[texasholdem]

I like the Mad Max 2 comparison for Stepheson lol. Honestly, if this team had a little more veteran experience, I'd take him. Remember the toughness and perimeter defense Artest brought to that 09' team?

But quatin's right that we likely can't afford him and who knows if he'd be willing to come off the bench? It's an interesting suggestion though.

He and Harden would start together. Both of them have decent enough handles to bring up the ball and shoot.

[ChokeFasncists]

Thabo Sefolosha Uncertain About Future With Thunder
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... th-Thunder
That'd be a good 3&D guy for us!

[90sAllDecade]

He and Harden would start together. Both of them have decent enough handles to bring up the ball and shoot.

Yeah, I thought about that too afterward. Good point, it could work. He could help create offense with the second unit if guys had to rest as well.

Thabo Sefolosha Uncertain About Future With Thunder
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... th-Thunder
That'd be a good 3&D guy for us!

If he took a paycut it's not a bad suggestion. Looking at both sides, he looked bad this year and hasn't hit threes with consistency in the playoffs in his career.

All things considered he'd be a choice if we couldn't get anyone younger or better, or if he's real cheap imo.

[texasholdem]

Thabo would be a good plan B in case Parsons isn't retained but I don't think he would come here to be a bench player.

Do he and Harden get along?

[rocketsballin]

thabo is done starting for a contender. if he wants money then maybe he'll go for a bad team. but if he wants a role on a contendingteam, then i have no doubt he'll accept a bench role.

[ChokeFasncists]

I was just thinking, don't we have Cisco who's not a bad 3&D guy? It's a shame he wasn't used better in the playoffs. Maybe have him start and Haren come off the bench like with Thabo in OKC? Or have Thabo come over and start and play a little bit.

[baki]

How about a James Harden/Lance Stephenson starting backcourt? Mad Max II

Are you guys trying to run Houston into the ground with misfits like Harden and Stephenson?

We don't need a repeat of the old Portland trailblazers with so many megasized contracts, locker room issues and not a single result.

Sometimes I feel like some people have no grip with reality here.

[texasholdem]

How about a James Harden/Lance Stephenson starting backcourt? Mad Max II

Are you guys trying to run Houston into the ground with misfits like Harden and Stephenson?

We don't need a repeat of the old Portland trailblazers with so many megasized contracts, locker room issues and not a single result.

Sometimes I feel like some people have no grip with reality here.

I wasn't really serious. It was supposed to be hypothetical and humorous.

[tha_rock220]

The problem isn't at the wing. The problem is at the four. Anybody who thinks Terrence Jones is a long term solution at that position for a team with championship aspirations is absolutely insane.

[ChokeFasncists]

The problem isn't at the wing. The problem is at the four. Anybody who thinks Terrence Jones is a long term solution at that position for a team with championship aspirations is absolutely insane.

IMO TJ is ideal to come off the bench aka Odom. Unfortunately our insane coach posse decided to mess it up by starting him. It might work a little in the regular season but makes no sense in the playoffs.