Lowry re-signing with Toronto.

[MKL]

Those of you who thought Lowry was even considering coming back to Houston are/were delusional. It's hilarious to think that Lowry would want to come back to Houston after 1. the way he was treated by Mchale 2. The way Houston's FO treats players in general(no loyalty/respect)

Houston just crapped the bed with their latest fiasco. If it wasn't already clear, it is now: if you're not a max player, you're just a commodity. It's really difficult to build a championship team when you conduct business in this manner.

Contrast Houston's philosophy with San Antonio's and it's pretty easy to see why Houston hasn't won jack squat in nearly 20 years. Meanwhile the Spurs just finished winning their 5 title in 15 years.

that's some insight.

Lowry is treated better in TOR.

But Lowry matured, he was savvy to use HOU as leverage and got the contract he wanted from TOR.

It was not a sure thing because TOR originally wanted Vasquez to be their main guy.

off topic, you think Morey will flatout waive Lin? Working there is going to be awkward.

I know for a fact you don't have a source on that comment because its certainly not true. Vasquez was acquired to play backup 1 and give the Raps the flexibility to play a 2 PG backcourt at different points in the game.

Masai Ujiri and Tim Leiweike have been very transparent since the All Star Break that Lowry was NOT leaving Toronto, and they would keep him.... and they did so without a big overpay.

Kyrie just landed a max deal, and Lowry was better than Kyrie this season, and will ALWAYS be a better defender

They key is the 2nd half of the season. Lowry wasn't so hot in the first month and there was news TOR was thinking of moving him with Vasquez being the starter. Lowry also acquired a bad rep on getting injured and missing games.

You can get a feel of the history if you follow the Grantland videos/articles with preseason and the start of the season.

but all that is pointless now. I'm not trying to rain on TOR fan's parade. Lowry got the contract he wanted in TOR and found himself a nice home with nice fan support. Lowry is a good player in his prime. Kyrie is overpaid, but Cleveland has to overpay to keep star players. Kyrie also has a terrible rep with injuries and not playing up to his potential.

[hayden]

Right. The Spurs have won because of heart or something, not because they have one of the 5 best players in the history of the game.

And Lowry himself has admitted that McHale taught him a lot, and that he was the **** when it came to the clashes between himself and McHale.

If you don't think the Spurs are NOT the best run team in basketball..maybe all of professional sports, I'd love to hear who you think is better.

As for McHale..Lin is his 3rd PG that he's screwed up. If it were an isolated case...it wouldn't be a big thing..but after awhile....there seems to be a pattern with Mchale.

I didn't say the Spurs weren't well-run. I'm saying it's a lot easier to run the Spurs when you know, they have a guy like Tim Duncan. As much as people have been running around this offseason claiming "we need to build like the Spurs", doing what San Antonio did is basically impossible without a guy like him.

And people need to stop with this revisionist crap that Lowry and Dragic "screwed up" under McHale. Lowry played incredibly well under McHale and was discussed as an All-Star candidate. He then threw a temper tantrum when McHale wanted to keep Dragic in the starting lineup because Lowry was still recovering from an illness. Lowry himself has admitted that it was on him and not McHale, so I don't know why people still want to blame McHale. And Dragic leaving had nothing to do with McHale, but because Phoenix offered him a better deal than Houston would. If LeBron does leave Miami, are NBA fans now going to blame Spo for it somehow?

Lowry's just being the bigger person for the media and it would have helped the relationship if by chance he ended up back in HOU.

And it just makes sense that McHale would be more inclined to clash with PGs since he is Xs and Os illiterate and played as a big man as a professional. Let's also not forget McHale and Cassell clashing back in Minny, when McHale took over as mid-season head coach which eventually led to Cassell being traded the next offseason for... lol Marco Jaric.

[cw3k]

I didn't think he would get 48/4. That's a huge contract. Rondo/Parker money, and I don't think Lowry is as good as those 2.

But for some strange reason, Toronto can't get good FA. I guess they had no choice but to overpay.

I think Parker take less money to stake in Spurs. He is a max player. But not everyone is motivated by money.

[Sasaki]

Sure it's nice to draft a guy like Tim Duncan, but plenty of teams have drafted some incredible players and haven't won squat. Cleveland comes to mind immediately. The point about the Spurs is that they've created an environment that fosters "teamwork"..as in..everyone works together towards a goal. You don't see a lot of bad press coming out of San Antonio. You also don't see guys NOT playing defense and getting paid max contracts . I'm quite sure that even when Duncan retires..they will still be a successful franchise because it's never been about a single player.

As for McHale, let's look at things from a slightly different perspective. How is that 2 of his former guards blossomed immediately after leaving the team? If you've watched the Rockets for the past 2 seasons(I'm assuming you have..based on your presence in this forum) you know how stupidly Mchale has utilized Lin. There's no getting around that one. If you've been in this forum then you should be aware of the numerous posts that point to Mchale's terrible use of Lin(only to be shut down/ignored by certain people)

And my response is that the Spurs have managed to create this environment BECAUSE of Duncan. I'm sorry, most superstars aren't like Duncan. Most superstars aren't willing to put up with a coach like Popovich who would harass him day in and day out back in 2001 when Pop didn't have his reputation. Most superstars aren't willing to cut minutes, or money( see: Bryant, Kobe). Duncan creates an example which has continued to work even after he has begun to fade.

If you want to create the Spurs system? Pop said it best: "Get Tim Duncan." That's not an option for us.

And I don't buy that McHale has stupidly utilized Lin. He hasn't been optimal, because McHale is not a good offensive coach. But while there may be some valid complaints, they get drowned out by his fans who are convinced that the team should be built around him and not Harden. Lin has real, serious weaknesses, and people just want to excuse them all by pointing to someone else.

[Skeezo]

Way to much money? To me 4/40 is about right so that is not a drastic overpay. By far the best contract yet. My guess that is the offer sheet Parsons gets(4/48) unless there is a agreement between them

(4/48) would be overpaid. This is tax-free Texas, not Canada. 4/40 is OK I guess but I think 4/32 is much better for any contender to pay him.

Just so you know taxes are paid by players because they play in every State & Canada... 41 home dates out of the year (I guess a little more cause you play Dal/SA) you play in the tax free state of Texas... Every where else they go that has tax, Houston players pay them...

There is also another NBA tax that I can't remember, there was report about it a couple months ago I wish I could find it... Anyways certain cities have it & others don't... Toronto is one of the cities that does not charge the tax... Is there a difference? Yes, but not as much as some people would like to think... For instance R.Gay is paying more tax now in California then he was when he was in Toronto...

[hayden]

Sure it's nice to draft a guy like Tim Duncan, but plenty of teams have drafted some incredible players and haven't won squat. Cleveland comes to mind immediately. The point about the Spurs is that they've created an environment that fosters "teamwork"..as in..everyone works together towards a goal. You don't see a lot of bad press coming out of San Antonio. You also don't see guys NOT playing defense and getting paid max contracts . I'm quite sure that even when Duncan retires..they will still be a successful franchise because it's never been about a single player.

As for McHale, let's look at things from a slightly different perspective. How is that 2 of his former guards blossomed immediately after leaving the team? If you've watched the Rockets for the past 2 seasons(I'm assuming you have..based on your presence in this forum) you know how stupidly Mchale has utilized Lin. There's no getting around that one. If you've been in this forum then you should be aware of the numerous posts that point to Mchale's terrible use of Lin(only to be shut down/ignored by certain people)

And my response is that the Spurs have managed to create this environment BECAUSE of Duncan. I'm sorry, most superstars aren't like Duncan. Most superstars aren't willing to put up with a coach like Popovich who would harass him day in and day out back in 2001 when Pop didn't have his reputation. Most superstars aren't willing to cut minutes, or money( see: Bryant, Kobe). Duncan creates an example which has continued to work even after he has begun to fade.

If you want to create the Spurs system? Pop said it best: "Get Tim Duncan." That's not an option for us.

And I don't buy that McHale has stupidly utilized Lin. He hasn't been optimal, because McHale is not a good offensive coach. But while there may be some valid complaints, they get drowned out by his fans who are convinced that the team should be built around him and not Harden. Lin has real, serious weaknesses, and people just want to excuse them all by pointing to someone else.

we can't have a discussion when you write something like this. it comes off as:

"some of your points are valid but i won't acknowledge them because i am biased by sh*t other people have said and which i am completely overgeneralizing"

and also this:

And I don't buy that McHale has stupidly utilized Lin. He hasn't been optimal, because McHale is not a good offensive coach.

those two sentences read pretty much the same to me. McHale is not a good offensive coach, thus he is stupidly utilizing Lin, a ball-dominant, play-making PG. if DAntoni's system caters to PGs, then McHale's is the polar opposite in that it completely doesn't rely on set plays. both are subpar coaches with terrible flaws.

[Hitch22]

Those of you who thought Lowry was even considering coming back to Houston are/were delusional. It's hilarious to think that Lowry would want to come back to Houston after 1. the way he was treated by Mchale 2. The way Houston's FO treats players in general(no loyalty/respect)

Houston just crapped the bed with their latest fiasco. If it wasn't already clear, it is now: if you're not a max player, you're just a commodity. It's really difficult to build a championship team when you conduct business in this manner.

Contrast Houston's philosophy with San Antonio's and it's pretty easy to see why Houston hasn't won jack squat in nearly 20 years. Meanwhile the Spurs just finished winning their 5 title in 15 years.

that's some insight.

Lowry is treated better in TOR.

But Lowry matured, he was savvy to use HOU as leverage and got the contract he wanted from TOR.

It was not a sure thing because TOR originally wanted Vasquez to be their main guy.

off topic, you think Morey will flatout waive Lin? Working there is going to be awkward.

Just to be clear... Toronto never WANTED Vasquez as starting point guard. would some have excepted it for a while at this stage in his career, yes but Lowry has always been treated as the number 1 point guard on TOR

[BaYBaller]

Interesting how the majority think $12m/yr is overpaying for Lowry. Ty Lawson got a similar contract, and AFAIK most people think that was a good deal for DEN. I think Lowry got what he was worth. He probably stayed with TOR because of his premier role with the team. I HIGHLY doubt it had anything to do with McHale or the org. Remember, TOR didn't treat Lowry all that well either as trade rumors were flying all over the place while he was in TOR. Also even if he didn't like McHale, I think everybody knows McHale is gone after next season. I also imagine we didn't offer him that much money either.

What we need is a PF and backup C, and possibly SF if Parsons gets some ridiculous offer in RFA. I think I speak for most HOU fans that we're comfortable with Bev going forward, and IMO we should focus on the real holes in our roster.

[Maudlin17]

If you want to create the Spurs system? Pop said it best: "Get Tim Duncan." That's not an option for us.

And I don't buy that McHale has stupidly utilized Lin. He hasn't been optimal, because McHale is not a good offensive coach. But while there may be some valid complaints, they get drowned out by his fans who are convinced that the team should be built around him and not Harden. Lin has real, serious weaknesses, and people just want to excuse them all by pointing to someone else.

You failed to address my point about both Dragic and Lowry blossoming as soon as they left Houston. Do you consider both to be just coincidences?

[MKL]

Those of you who thought Lowry was even considering coming back to Houston are/were delusional. It's hilarious to think that Lowry would want to come back to Houston after 1. the way he was treated by Mchale 2. The way Houston's FO treats players in general(no loyalty/respect)

Houston just crapped the bed with their latest fiasco. If it wasn't already clear, it is now: if you're not a max player, you're just a commodity. It's really difficult to build a championship team when you conduct business in this manner.

Contrast Houston's philosophy with San Antonio's and it's pretty easy to see why Houston hasn't won jack squat in nearly 20 years. Meanwhile the Spurs just finished winning their 5 title in 15 years.

that's some insight.

Lowry is treated better in TOR.

But Lowry matured, he was savvy to use HOU as leverage and got the contract he wanted from TOR.

It was not a sure thing because TOR originally wanted Vasquez to be their main guy.

off topic, you think Morey will flatout waive Lin? Working there is going to be awkward.

Just to be clear... Toronto never WANTED Vasquez as starting point guard. would some have excepted it for a while at this stage in his career, yes but Lowry has always been treated as the number 1 point guard on TOR

Sure, when Lowry wasn't hurt. He is the #1 guy.

The thing with Lowry was always his problem staying healthy and his back up end up improving.

Not saying that will repeat in TOR but Vasquez was signed just for that reason, for insurance.

[Lorenzomax7]

Way to much money? To me 4/40 is about right so that is not a drastic overpay. By far the best contract yet. My guess that is the offer sheet Parsons gets(4/48) unless there is a agreement between them

(4/48) would be overpaid. This is tax-free Texas, not Canada. 4/40 is OK I guess but I think 4/32 is much better for any contender to pay him.

Just so you know taxes are paid by players because they play in every State & Canada... 41 home dates out of the year (I guess a little more cause you play Dal/SA) you play in the tax free state of Texas... Every where else they go that has tax, Houston players pay them...

There is also another NBA tax that I can't remember, there was report about it a couple months ago I wish I could find it... Anyways certain cities have it & others don't... Toronto is one of the cities that does not charge the tax... Is there a difference? Yes, but not as much as some people would like to think... For instance R.Gay is paying more tax now in California then he was when he was in Toronto...

Oh really ? Thanks for your infos.

[Sasaki]

If you want to create the Spurs system? Pop said it best: "Get Tim Duncan." That's not an option for us.

And I don't buy that McHale has stupidly utilized Lin. He hasn't been optimal, because McHale is not a good offensive coach. But while there may be some valid complaints, they get drowned out by his fans who are convinced that the team should be built around him and not Harden. Lin has real, serious weaknesses, and people just want to excuse them all by pointing to someone else.

You failed to address my point about both Dragic and Lowry blossoming as soon as they left Houston. Do you consider both to be just coincidences?

First, they didn't blossom as soon as they left Houston. Neither point guard was that impressive in 2012-13, so it clearly was not just "leave McHale, immediately profit."
Secondly, they showed themselves to be good point guards in Houston as I've discussed before, and continued to be good point guards afterwards. Hedo Turkoglu and Stephen Jackson blossomed after they left Popovich, does that mean he didn't know how to coach wings?

[CoolbeansB]

Dam!! I really wanted Lowry back in Houston!

[Maudlin17]

You failed to address my point about both Dragic and Lowry blossoming as soon as they left Houston. Do you consider both to be just coincidences?

First, they didn't blossom as soon as they left Houston. Neither point guard was that impressive in 2012-13, so it clearly was not just "leave McHale, immediately profit."
Secondly, they showed themselves to be good point guards in Houston as I've discussed before, and continued to be good point guards afterwards. Hedo Turkoglu and Stephen Jackson blossomed after they left Popovich, does that mean he didn't know how to coach wings?

Seriously..that's your response? First you say they didn't blossom..then you say they weren't that impressive after they left(12/13)..and then you say they showed themselves to be good point guards....pick a side and stick with it.

Does Pop have a reputation of screwing up players that play a certain position?

[000001]

so glad we did not add lowry hes a nice player but hes not taking us to the top