RealGM

Intentionally misleading title. My bad, and psyche or something. I'm tuning the thread audience.

So yeah.
Has anyone else considered that for the price of Bosh next year, we could keep Scola and trade Brooks + who knows to the Suns for Nash and have Nash / Lowry at PG?

Mind you, that's a HEAVY investment, so I don't really see us doing it, but lawdy!
I'm assuming we'd have to trade either Battier, Ariza, or Jeffries to make it happen...

Phoenix would HAVE to be looking to cut salary, and we'd have to make us some sweet sweet luxury tax lovin', but... if Jeffries:

Nash/Lowry
Martin/Ariza/Bud
Battier/Ariza/Bud
Scola/Hill
Ming/Hayes

I think Yao/Hill might help make up for some of Nash's defensive liabilities, and a 50/45/90 PG beside Martin and Ming makes me positively drool about offense.

p.s. if you must, change this to the offseason trade thread and let's get an early jump on the early offseason.

That would be nasty its always been a problem getting yao the ball and Nash works good with both post playing bigs and shooting bigs Yao is a mix. See Dirk and Amare. Plus K-mart fits better as the 2nd or third player best player. Ariza would become the very good role player that he is.

Adding the most uptempo PG in the league to the slowest center in the league is not smart.

Bosh fits better and is younger.

Nash is 36 years old I think he can adjust to not playing up tempo all the time

Where is Martin in that lineup? I call shenanigans.

Rather have Nashy Nash, yeah. Bosh won't help us when it comes to 4th qtr execution ineptitude. Nash sure as hell will.

Only issue is the age, but he doesn't even seem to be slowing down - he reportedly takes great care of himself. So maybe we could count on at least 2 more seasons at current level, which sort of fits with our present plan w.r.t. our potential contending window anyway.

I say Aye.

PS but of course, I doubt the Suns would trade him and I doubt he'll ask. Nice to dream tho'.

HORRILBE!!!

Nash is cool and all, but imo overrated... he won't win you a championship, and he can only play his style... UPtempo.

Anyone here think Yao can make it up the floor in under 7 secs? or however long Nash teams want to score a bucket.... hell no

Creepa wrote:That would be nasty its always been a problem getting yao the ball and Nash works good with both post playing bigs and shooting bigs Yao is a mix. See Dirk and Amare. Plus K-mart fits better as the 2nd or third player best player. Ariza would become the very good role player that he is.

LMAO

Two of the most athletic bigs, who just love to run up and down the court...

and btw Amare is both a shoot big and a post big, if only there wasn't so much mystery over his impending free agency he would be a Rocket right now.

Two reasons I brought this up.
- As has been pointed out many times, It's been shown that Morey can be expected to do one thing every year: exactly what most people on basketball message boards haven't been talking about at all. We've been talking about Bosh a LOT, therefore...! It probably won't be that.
- Nash seems to me to be an awesome fit, with perhaps 3 caveats I can think of (to be named later), and even if a complete and total pipe dream and nightmarish fit, still makes 1000 times more sense than 20m Bosh.

LarsV8 wrote:Adding the most uptempo PG in the league to the slowest center in the league is not smart.

Z3snap wrote:Nash is cool and all, but imo overrated... he won't win you a championship, and he can only play his style... UPtempo.

Do you two mean to tell me that perhaps THE best shooter and one of the most talented passer/playmakers in league history wouldn't be able to slow down his game to halfcourt sets? I call horseradish. The Mavs ran lots of halfcourt sets in Dallas and he did just fine. The Suns ran lots of them last year with Shaq and he did just fine. Hockeypuck! Fizzlenargle! Snagwiggins!

This say I.

Creepa wrote:That would be nasty its always been a problem getting yao the ball and Nash works good with both post playing bigs and shooting bigs Yao is a mix. See Dirk and Amare. Plus K-mart fits better as the 2nd or third player best player. Ariza would become the very good role player that he is.

grond wrote:Rather have Nashy Nash, yeah. Bosh won't help us when it comes to 4th qtr execution ineptitude. Nash sure as hell will.

Those were my thoughts. Nash provides entry passes to Yao, nightmarish floor spacing, backdoor passes and immaculate setups to Scola/Ariza/Martin/Lowry/Hill, though I'd prefer Yao to be in the low post than the high post. We'd have Scola and Hill for highs, and Yao's efficiency has been shown to be much lower from the high post (my take has always been: 'taking a 7'6" immobile guy out of rebounding position? Orly?') This would actually seem to open up that option. We therefore are more able to keep Yao in his best place as Nash can set up our other bigs and wings in better position, making the drop-down fronts nigh impossible, increasing Yao's efficiency, and increasing wing and high post efficiency.

LarsV8 wrote:Bosh fits better and is younger.

Seriously, no comment.

grond wrote:Only issue is the age, but he doesn't even seem to be slowing down - he reportedly takes great care of himself. So maybe we could count on at least 2 more seasons at current level, which sort of fits with our present plan w.r.t. our potential contending window anyway.

That's one kicker, but those would also be my expectations.

grond wrote:PS but of course, I doubt the Suns would trade him and I doubt he'll ask. Nice to dream tho'.

My point with the price cutting would be... Sarver is a banker in Arizona. Their largest mode of income the last decade has been real estate. This would very much explain his theological devotion to cost cutting over the last 4 years. Not only are we still in the recession (maybe) with no upturn in housing (also maybe), but the Suns are a bunch of old grizzled farts with hip replacements and titanium ankles and need to be rebuilt anyway. Turn all those yummy NY draft picks , lowered salary costs, a young PG prospect, and a role player over to the Suns, and unpopular though it may end up being in the desert for now, it gives some nice foundationwork for 3 years down the road. I'd kinda rather Kidd from a salary/rebounding/steals standpoint, but no way in hell do we get him from the Mavs for anything, and he's still not nearly the shooter Nash is.

As far as any other shooters/pg/sgs, only Mike Miller, Stephen Curry, and Mo Williams shoot at Nash's level and can make plays / handle the ball, but I'm not sure we have a place for Miller anymore, and Curry and Williams are less available than Kidd.

Z3snap wrote:Anyone here think Yao can make it up the floor in under 7 secs? or however long Nash teams want to score a bucket.... hell no

Hill can. Scola can. Martin can. Lowry can. Hayes can. Pretty much the whole rest of our team other than maybe Battier and Andersen can. If anything this lets Yao catch his breath at the defensive end while the rest of the bucks give the other team a good jogging-to. Anyway, who says we have to run SSOL? It's not like it ever did the Suns or D'Antoni any good. As far as I can tell, you're only saying that because that's what he's mostly been running since leaving Dallas. We still fastbreak plenty, and he'll be a great asset there, and in the last 2 minutes when we need a goofy shot. (helluva lot better than Brooks, at any rate)

Z3snap wrote:Two of the most athletic bigs (Dirk and Amare), who just love to run up and down the court...

and btw Amare is both a shoot big and a post big, if only there wasn't so much mystery over his impending free agency he would be a Rocket right now.

Dirk's not that athletic, really... He's pretty decent, don't get me wrong, but it's the threat of his shot that really opens up his drive. Also Stoudemire plays worse defense than Nash and is a head case, which is really kinda sad. I'd take Bosh a million times over before Stoudemire, and I think Bosh is a horrible idea.

Regarding Bosh and his shooting:
> 15 ft
Bosh - 120/259 = 0.463 Scola - 114/277 = 0.411
> 15ft - right elbow
Bosh - 83/182 = 0.456 Scola - 99/231 = 0.428
Overall
Bosh - 592/1136 = 0.521 Scola - 549/1066 = 0.515

< 15 ft
Bosh - 472/877 = 0.538
Scola - 435/789 = 0.551

Not covering anything else, Bosh isn't THAT much better than Scola at shooting outside. If you discount Scola's right elbow shot (kinda weak), Scola can still space the floor. Hill is decent at shooting from midrange, and should be better next year. To me, 1.125 better rebounding from PF, and %0.6 better overall shooting (with more turnovers) is not worth 10m. What's "younger" matter in our specific case? We could use Bosh for 3-4 years, then with Yao, Scola, and Martin all getting older, rebuild around a 29 year old PF? ... ... ... Anyway I'm off topic. I've covered Bosh in tons of other threads. This is about Nash.

My point here is that Nash could easily make all our positions more efficient without raising our salary that much or giving up much outside the guy he's replacing.

HERE is where my big issue is. I'm assuming that Yao and our other PFs could make up for Nash's bad defense, but what if they don't? What if Nash's assignment constantly gets into the lane and racks up fouls on our bigs; particularly Yao, who's always been a bit foul prone in the new (guard oriented) NBA? Would we... play him as a backup? Start Lowry and bring him in as a 6th man? Does Jordan Hill come in with him so he can come over on help defense and keep Yao on the court?

(Yes, that's only one caveat. I forgot the other two while arguing the Bosh drivel)

RaoulDuke79 wrote:Where is Martin in that lineup? I call shenanigans.

Psssh. Like he's going to make it off the bench next year.

The reason why trades like this aren't talked about is because its garbage

How did Shaq work out in PHX last year?

Thats right Shaq went on a tear as soon as Nash got hurt, and when Nash was healthy Shaq's production was down. and even Shaq runs the floor better than Yao.

Dallas got better when Nash left so why bring up how Nash could... sometimes... maybe... play in a half court system cause he did it in Dallas.... every once in a while... They were a running team and btw again how far did it get them?

moofs wrote:Do you two mean to tell me that perhaps THE best shooter and one of the most talented passer/playmakers in league history wouldn't be able to slow down his game to halfcourt sets? I call horseradish. The Mavs ran lots of halfcourt sets in Dallas and he did just fine. The Suns ran lots of them last year with Shaq and he did just fine. Hockeypuck! Fizzlenargle! Snagwiggins!

Again how did that work out for them?
Since when can a "two-time MVP" play on the same team for several years with the guy who wins the MVP the year after and not win a ring?
Nash & Nowitzki cause they're overrated.

But yea I sure this time Nash could adapt his game to fit a player who is completely opposite of his style of play.

moofs wrote:

Z3snap wrote:Anyone here think Yao can make it up the floor in under 7 secs? or however long Nash teams want to score a bucket.... hell no

Hill can. Scola can. Martin can. Lowry can. Hayes can. Pretty much the whole rest of our team other than maybe Battier and Andersen can. If anything this lets Yao catch his breath at the defensive end while the rest of the bucks give the other team a good jogging-to. Anyway, who says we have to run SSOL? It's not like it ever did the Suns or D'Antoni any good. As far as I can tell, you're only saying that because that's what he's mostly been running since leaving Dallas. We still fastbreak plenty, and he'll be a great asset there, and in the last 2 minutes when we need a goofy shot. (helluva lot better than Brooks, at any rate)

Martin can't even keep up with our current pace, he is a horrible conditioned athlete.

Nash needs to run the team his way and Yao will be the focal point of our team....
The two cannot play on the same team....




NOW JKidd(Greatest PG of the past 20 years) is another story.

Z3snap wrote:How did Shaq work out in PHX last year?

Are you referring to 37 year old 380lb Shaq? IIRC, he exceeded expectations.

Z3snap wrote:Thats right Shaq went on a tear as soon as Nash got hurt, and when Nash was healthy Shaq's production was down. and even Shaq runs the floor better than Yao.

Of course he did. There's only so much basketball to go around, and with Nash's production missing (and he's more efficient than Shaq, shootingwise), someone else's is very likely to go up. Was their record better or worse over that stretch? I don't know when he went down and am not going to scan every game log from last year.
I could just as easily say that Aaron Brooks went on a tear as soon as Yao went down.

Z3snap wrote:Dallas got better when Nash left so why bring up how Nash could... sometimes... maybe... play in a half court system cause he did it in Dallas.... every once in a while... They were a running team and btw again how far did it get them?

99-00 40-42
00-01 53-29
01-02 57-25
02-03 60-22
03-04 (past top 4 of Dirk, Finley, Nash, Jamison) 52-30
Antoine Walker, Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels, Tony Delk, Danny Fortson, Shawn Bradley, Eduardo Najera (remember, Walker == negative wins)
04-05 58-24

Pretty decent?
1 missed playoffs (99 season)
1 1st round
2 Conf Semifinals
1 Conf Finals

Z3snap wrote:Since when can a "two-time MVP" play on the same team for several years with the guy who wins the MVP the year after and not win a ring?
Nash & Nowitzki cause they're overrated.

I do partly agree, but their supporting cast in Dallas was a bit overrated. Walker was just a chucker, as were Stackhouse and Terry (even though they did tend to kill US). Their backups mostly kinda stunk.

Z3snap wrote:But yea I sure this time Nash could adapt his game to fit a player who is completely opposite of his style of play.

Z3snap wrote:Nash needs to run the team his way and Yao will be the focal point of our team....
The two cannot play on the same team....

Basically, you're trying to say that a great passer/ great shooter can't play in a half-court setup? Since when?

Z3snap wrote:NOW JKidd(Greatest PG of the past 20 years) is another story.

See previous: "good luck getting him from the mavs"

Are you **** kidding me? Steve nash is prehistoric in nba years. And trade him for Aaron brooks who's the most improved player and still improving every year. And hes still young, No thanks. How many years does Nash have left? I'm willing to bet at most 3 years. And their team won't win a championship because their d sucks compared to the elite teams.

He did acknowledge Nash's age as being a factor, and obviously the window of opportunity would be rather slim, but with the uncertainty of Yao coming off yet another injury and not getting any younger, maybe it is already anyways(though I really like the younger players we have in Brooks/Lowry/Ariza/Hill and the picks we have the next few years).

I'm not quite sure what their team not winning a championship has to do with how well the Rockets would fare with Nash though. The Suns defense might suck compared to elite teams, but that doesn't mean ours would(though this was also a point that was already acknowledged):

HERE is where my big issue is. I'm assuming that Yao and our other PFs could make up for Nash's bad defense, but what if they don't? What if Nash's assignment constantly gets into the lane and racks up fouls on our bigs; particularly Yao, who's always been a bit foul prone in the new (guard oriented) NBA? Would we... play him as a backup? Start Lowry and bring him in as a 6th man? Does Jordan Hill come in with him so he can come over on help defense and keep Yao on the court?

At the very least it's an interesting proposal. It will never happen, and I don't know if I'd personally want to give up Brooks for someone of Nash's age(his age being my only real concern). I definitely want us to re-sign Scola though because he's only the greatest player in the history of stuff and things, and I'm not a big Bosh fan so I think if this opportunity presented itself I'd take a chance on it. Maybe...

moofs wrote:
Are you referring to 37 year old 380lb Shaq? IIRC, he exceeded expectations.

How? they MISSED the playoffs!!!

moofs wrote:Of course he did. There's only so much basketball to go around, and with Nash's production missing (and he's more efficient than Shaq, shootingwise), someone else's is very likely to go up. Was their record better or worse over that stretch? I don't know when he went down and am not going to scan every game log from last year.
I could just as easily say that Aaron Brooks went on a tear as soon as Yao went down.

PHX was hands down a better team when one of Shaq or Nash was not playing.
They couldn't run with Shaq, and Nash is limited in half-court especially on the defensive end.

They made a push to the playoffs right after the break with Shaq.

I remember he was dropping 40 point games all over the place.
That run was completely dead when Shaq and Nash were back on the court.

moofs wrote:99-00 40-42
00-01 53-29
01-02 57-25
02-03 60-22
03-04 (past top 4 of Dirk, Finley, Nash, Jamison) 52-30
Antoine Walker, Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels, Tony Delk, Danny Fortson, Shawn Bradley, Eduardo Najera (remember, Walker == negative wins)
04-05 58-24

Pretty decent?
1 missed playoffs (99 season)
1 1st round
2 Conf Semifinals
1 Conf Finals

I do partly agree, but their supporting cast in Dallas was a bit overrated. Walker was just a chucker, as were Stackhouse and Terry (even though they did tend to kill US). Their backups mostly kinda stunk.

Thats not decent...
Two MVPs on the same team for 5 years, regardless of backups should guarantee at least 1 championship.
AND those teams are stack w/ talent... They had A. Jamison off the bench...


Lets see put any other two MVPs together what would u get....

KG/Kobe
Kobe/Shaq
Kobe/Duncan
AI/Kobe oh the headaches they would give a coach
AI/KG
etc.

all those would win at least one ring together.

moofs wrote:

Z3snap wrote:But yea I sure this time Nash could adapt his game to fit a player who is completely opposite of his style of play.

Z3snap wrote:Nash needs to run the team his way and Yao will be the focal point of our team....
The two cannot play on the same team....

Basically, you're trying to say that a great passer/ great shooter can't play in a half-court setup? Since when?

Z3snap wrote:NOW JKidd(Greatest PG of the past 20 years) is another story.

See previous: "good luck getting him from the mavs"

The thing Nash lacks is strength and defense, that is needed for a great half-court pg.
Kidd and Billups are two older pgs who bring that... but i never said I wanted Kidd

I like Brooks, and I think he is a fine starting pg.

If we were to trade for Nash, that would mean we're trading Yao away too....
and thats not happening... atleast for another year.

Thinking about it recently, I would rather have David West than CB4. He can be acquired at a much lower cost(both monetary and assets).

Sign and trade for Bosh? What will it take? Battier and/or Jeffries expirings will be traded probably. Chase's emergence is going to make it hard for Battier to stay, since he needs minutes.

Jow128 wrote:Thinking about it recently, I would rather have David West than CB4. He can be acquired at a much lower cost(both monetary and assets).

I don't think i can accept a hornets player (except CP3)

DiamondX wrote:

Jow128 wrote:Thinking about it recently, I would rather have David West than CB4. He can be acquired at a much lower cost(both monetary and assets).

I don't think i can accept a hornets player (except CP3)

Well that's actually the Chris I'm hoping to get. I'm not a big Bosh fan, and I don't want Steve Nash and Yao running the pick and roll all game long. Chris Paul is a phenomenal half court player and he can get out and run. He'd make good passes to Yao, hit Martin off a curl, or drive the ball and destroy everyone. With Paul the Rockets would win the title next year. I can dream can't I.

Well, since KMartin and Chris Paul are mentioned in the last few posts,...

KMartin is just strange. it lighted up against the Kings but can play like a scrub sometimes. YOU JUST DON"T KNOW WHEN THIS GUY IS GOING TO SHOW UP!

On CP3: Yes, i agree tha_Rock220, i think CP3 and Yao combi will be delicious. Nash - would be my 2nd choice. As for Bosh, thanks but no thanks unless he comes cheap which is impossible. The guy is hovering between a player who can carry his team and a regular role-player starter. I wouldn't pay the max contract for him. Just not worth the risk especially when we have a Scola at the PF position... Though Scola is probably not as flashy as Bosh, I know that the money (probably lesser than Bosh) is well-spent because he is a quiet worker who can put up the required numbers.

Let's move on from Bosh talk, Scola is locked in and Hill is looking more like a keeper, less like a "chip".

I would like to see what it would take to get Joe Johnson in a Rockets uniform.

Kevin Martin is not written in stone with me. I would prefer a primed Mobley over Martin thus far.....

Battier/Ariza, Budinger, 1st Rd. pick for JJ.

I don't think of him as highly as Bosh (but am fine with Scola) and thus wouldn't want to give up more than that. But I don't think he's a max either.