Houston's Decision To Acquire (Then Deal) Trevor Ariza

[bruddahmanmatt]

Ok, I wanna get your folks' opinion on this one. A few members and myself are discussing on another board why Trevor Ariza was acquired by Houston in the summer of '09 and then ultimately let go a few weeks ago.

Now my contention is that Ariza was acquired as a potential stopgap at the 2/3 until something could be swung for McGrady (what would eventually become Kevin Martin). I look at Houston's acquisition of Trevor as the Rockets being hopeful that Ariza could possibly carry the team in the way Artest did the year before until a viable #1 option was brought on board. Nothing permanent, but a stopgap to help slow the bleeding until something was worked out for T-Mac. Well, we all saw what happened last year. Trevor's game fell off when he was asked to play beyond his capabilities. That being said once Martin was brought in and Battier and Budinger proved to be very effective at the 3, there really wasn't much room for Ariza anymore. My belief is that Houston dealt Trevor away in a salary dump since Battier and Bud are equally as good or close to being as good as Trevor but much cheaper in that Battier is an expiring and Bud is making peanuts in comparison to Ariza. Getting Courtney Lee in return was a nice bonus, but the primary reason for trading Trevor was to dump his salary. Such a move saved Houston around 12.5 mil (before factoring in Lee's salary) this year alone.

Basically I believe that Morey F'ed up last year in acquiring Trevor for the full MLE amount with Yao's DPE and that in the end, he was very thankful that there was a suitor for Ariza in New Orleans. Without Sacramento looking to deal Martin last year and without New Orleans committing to Paul, you guys get no K-Mart and have no opportunity to shift Ariza. Basically my stance is that Morey took a flyer on Trevor last year, it didn't work and so he opted to pull the ripcord. However I believe that he also stumbled into a pair of lucky situations with Martin (Sacramento realized that Martin at the 2 would hinder Tyreke's development as Evans isn't suited to play the 1) and the Chris Paul situation in New Orleans. Without both of these opportunities, Houston is still saddled with Ariza's salary.



Now the other side contends Morey had planned this all along. That he acquired Ariza as an asset for the full MLE amount using Yao's DPE knowing full well that Trevor might be dealt within a year. Basically these folks claim that Houston took Trevor off the market so that they could flip him for another piece (Lee) down the road. Now while this all looks possible after the fact, hindsight is 20/20. I believe that while Morey would like us to believe that he planned the whole thing out over a year ago, there's no frickin' way he would have been able to guarantee both the Martin deal and the Lee deal. I like the sound of this theory, but IMO there are way too many variables to call it realistic. Hell Trevor could have gotten injured for all we know and I find it hard to believe that a GM would take a 34 million dollar (plus luxury tax) flyer on a player in order to flip him as an asset a year down the road. I mean who thinks and takes ridiculous risks like that? Again, my reason for refusing to accept this stance is that no one could have predicted that Sacramento would be looking to move Martin and no one could have predicted that New Orleans would be in the hunt for a wing to put beside Paul. What if Tyreke worked out at the 1 and what if the Hornets go with Collison? Basically this theory only fits if everything falls into Houston's lap and plays out like it did, otherwise the Rockets are still paying Trevor's bills.



Am I wrong in thinking that Morey made a mistake but lucked out and found a way to correct it? I just find it very hard to believe that he had all of this plotted out from the get-go. That being said, why do you guys feel Ariza was both acquired and let go?

[bubba]

i think he was acquired to help battier at his position and a replacement for artest. he was let go bc morey had a chance to get a player he coveted more (c. lee). in order to get him he had to give up ariza so he pulled trigger. i heard him and ab werent on same page so that may have caused friction. i think they wanted ariza to be the go to guy in certain situations but ariza failed at that for the most part. he was a role player in la and that worked for him. and well prob get the same play(if not better) from lee and at a fraction of the cost

[HTown_TMac]

Morey collects assets. Ariza seemed like a viable asset that was a low risk/high reward. Ariza was asked to do more than he was capable, but no one really knew what his capabilities were when he was with the Lakers. Then with the Kevin Martin trade we start seeing a much better Ariza, but there had seem to be some friction in the locker room.

[LarsV8]

I believe he was picked up because Toronto had interest in him and Houston had interest in Bosh.

Once Bosh was out of reach, Ariza was instantly gone.

[moofs]

I still think that at his Laker-level production, Ariza was/is an MLE-worthy player. He did not work with us in the role he was asked to accomodate, and may have some slight problems with moodiness, but that's about it.

[bruddahmanmatt]

Well I'd like to know what you guys think about Houston's (specifically Morey's) motivations behind acquiring Ariza. Do you folks believe that he was more of a stopgap or was Morey actually taking a calculated risk in acquiring Trevor for the full MLE amount using Yao's DPE with the intention of dealing him a year later? Sounds like a ballsy move that could totally come back to bite him in the a*s should Ariza go down with an injury. I'd think Houston of all teams would know better when it comes to uncertainty regarding injuries.

[TMU]

My question is why would Morey (or any GM for that matter) sign someone to a 5-year contract for a one-year rental? Like Bubba pointed out earlier, we needed a replacement for Artest or someone who could fill in for McGrady's and Battier's injuries.

I think Morey signed Ariza because of his youth and his production with the Lakers during the playoffs. I don't think Ariza was asked to do more than his capabilities, but at the time we lacked a go-to-guy and Ariza was forced to play beyond his role. Eventually, things didn't work out (i.e.: the collision with Brooks) and he got the boot.

Was Morey lucky? Did he make a mistake of signing Ariza? Maybe. But let's wait and see what Courtney Lee is capable of with this team. I think we'll have an answer by then.

[College Boy]

I think Morey signed him for a couple of reasons. First of all, we were in need of a SF being as Artest would not accept whatever offer we gave him. Ariza being, young, athletic, defensive minded, and possessing championship experience made him a perfect fit for what Morey was looking for. I don't think our intention when signing him was to make him our number one option. Remember, everything that happened last year looked out of place because it was meant to work around Yao. So everybody was asked to do more than usual. Scola had a better statistical year than normal, Hayes got way more minutes than he was accustomed to, and I don't even have to say what kind year AB had. So Ariza wasn't the only Rocket asked to step it up.

Now as far as him being traded, well that was Morey changing with the times. Morey is a business man after all, as proved with the Landry-Martin trade, he's not afraid to move a fan favorite for someone with more value, or suits the team better. So with the addition of Martin, the emergence of Air Bud, and the tiff with Brooks, when Lee became available, Morey thought it would best suit the team to part ways with Ariza.

I don't think it was that we were disappointed with his performance, because we never got to see him in the role that we brought him in to play next to Yao. It we just a matter of production vs contract. And when a better business deal came along, Morey pulled the trigger. It was very sound move if you ask me.

[bruddahmanmatt]

My question is why would Morey (or any GM for that matter) sign someone to a 5-year contract for a one-year rental? Like Bubba pointed out earlier, we needed a replacement for Artest or someone who could fill in for McGrady's and Battier's injuries.

This is exactly what I was thinking. However the other side argues that Morey knew beforehand that Trevor could never become what Artest became for you guys. I simply do not believe that. If that was the case, then why blow the entire exception on him? I just don't get it. Money spent for the sake of spending money can get you into some very unfavorable situations (read: Detroit with Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva).

I think Morey signed Ariza because of his youth and his production with the Lakers during the playoffs. I don't think Ariza was asked to do more than his capabilities, but at the time we lacked a go-to-guy and Ariza was forced to play beyond his role. Eventually, things didn't work out (i.e.: the collision with Brooks) and he got the boot.

Was Morey lucky? Did he make a mistake of signing Ariza? Maybe. But let's wait and see what Courtney Lee is capable of with this team. I think we'll have an answer by then.

My thing is that if you acquire a guy for the full MLE and then flip him a year later, you're pretty much admitting that you F'ed up. I mean I understand that you get Lee in return but the fact that he was even available was dumb luck that happened to fall into Morey's lap IMO. The same can be said with regards to New Orleans being in the hunt for an athletic wing like Trevor. Without both situations, you guys are stuck with Ariza and his deal for the foreseeable future. Regardless of whether or not Lee does or does not fit in with your team, he's waaaaay cheaper than Trevor and at worst, you guys unloaded a contract that was costing your team more than the player's production.

[TMU]

My thing is that if you acquire a guy for the full MLE and then flip him a year later, you're pretty much admitting that you F'ed up. I mean I understand that you get Lee in return but the fact that he was even available was dumb luck that happened to fall into Morey's lap IMO. The same can be said with regards to New Orleans being in the hunt for an athletic wing like Trevor. Without both situations, you guys are stuck with Ariza and his deal for the foreseeable future. Regardless of whether or not Lee does or does not fit in with your team, he's waaaaay cheaper than Trevor and at worst, you guys unloaded a contract that was costing your team more than the player's production.

There were fixed feelings about the Ariza signing and if you want to call it a bad signing, that's fine. No GM makes the right moves all the time. After all, the NBA is business and teams take risks in their investments. Some good, some bad. You can say Morey lucked out or whatever, but the bigger picture is that Morey was able to fix the problem right off the bat by unloading Ariza's contract.

Was Ariza worth the MLE? At the time, I thought he was. He was instrumental during LA's playoffs run and shot incredibly well. Let's not forget that Mitch Kupchak offered Ariza the MLE way before the Lakers got Artest. Now, Jeff Bower is responsible for Ariza's contract. So my guess is that some GMs did and still do think that he's worth the MLE.

[bruddahmanmatt]

My thing is that if you acquire a guy for the full MLE and then flip him a year later, you're pretty much admitting that you F'ed up. I mean I understand that you get Lee in return but the fact that he was even available was dumb luck that happened to fall into Morey's lap IMO. The same can be said with regards to New Orleans being in the hunt for an athletic wing like Trevor. Without both situations, you guys are stuck with Ariza and his deal for the foreseeable future. Regardless of whether or not Lee does or does not fit in with your team, he's waaaaay cheaper than Trevor and at worst, you guys unloaded a contract that was costing your team more than the player's production.

There were fixed feelings about the Ariza signing and if you want to call it a bad signing, that's fine. No GM makes the right moves all the time. After all, the NBA is business and teams take risks in their investments. Some good, some bad. You can say Morey lucked out or whatever, but the bigger picture is that Morey was able to fix the problem right off the bat by unloading Ariza's contract.

Was Ariza worth the MLE? At the time, I thought he was. He was instrumental during LA's playoffs run and shot incredibly well. Let's not forget that Mitch Kupchak offered Ariza the MLE way before the Lakers got Artest. Now, Jeff Bower is responsible for Ariza's contract. So my guess is that some GMs did and still do think that he's worth the MLE.

I'm not criticizing Morey for making a bad decision, just pointing out that he did. I know GM's make bad moves all the time (although hopefully they make more good moves than they do bad moves). Believe me, I guarantee you Mitch Kupchak wishes that he could get back some of the contracts he's handed out in the past. Luke Walton's money will remain on LA's books for another three years and LA dodged a bullet in VladRad by dealing him in a steal for Shannon Brown and a throw-in Adam Morrison. That being said, I do think that Trevor would have been worth the MLE to us in LA as he was a much better fit here than he was in Houston.

However, the point of my post was to ask whether or not you guys as Rockets fans agreed that Morey made a mistake in acquiring Trevor for the amount that he did or whether you folks believed that he had the whole thing planned out from the get-go. I agree with you in that he rectified the situation with a great move (although IMO, as great as the move was, he did get lucky here) in dumping Ariza's salary to a team that can better utilize his talents in exchange for Lee who comes on the cheap with his rookie K. What I have trouble believing is the position others have taken (not you) where they suggest that Morey acquired Ariza with the intention of dealing him a year later. That to me is ludicrous. We seem to be in agreement with how things played out, I just wanted to hear it from you guys as Rockets fans.

[Mr. E]

So the options are:

1) Morey is an idiot who made a really dumb move and got lucky and found an escape hatch;

or

2) Morey is an evil genius on par with Lex Luthor and Wile E. Coyote.


While I don't think that he's quite the lucky buffoon you make him out to be in your position I do think that it is more accurate in most ways. Morey made a move that made sense at the time (try to judge it then, not a year later); it became apparant that it wasn't going to work out, so he was not so stubborn and full of pride where he stood pat - he made a move, and it worked out well. I think that you're being very dismissive of him by chalking the Rockets part in that trade up to sheer luck. If there is one thing we've seen with this guy is that he will not make panic moves. I'm sure that he explored other options (Ariza to other teams; possibly Shane or Chase to other teams) before signing off on this deal. Yes, it was fortunate for the Rockets that they got out of what has now become (in hindsight) a bad signing; but I don't think that the Rockets would be freaking out right now if Ariza was still on the roster. Most of us were shocked that he was traded, as we've been beaten over the head with talk that Ariza was a good fit and a key part of the future.

But to the people who are claiming that this was some Man Behind the Curtains stuff...come on, dude! Yeah, we all love the GM here, but most of us realize that he's a guy who's strength is acquiring assets and finding the best fits for the team. Ariza was thought to be a great fit. He was not acquired thinking that he'd be some piece in a future deal. That's just silliness speaking.

So from this Rockets fan - I think that while you are right, you are seriously doing an injustice to a good GM based on one move; however, you are way closer to reality than the dudes arguing with you that he is Dr. Evil and has Sharks with Laser Beams on the horizon.

Great topic, dude - glad you stopped by to post it!

[CanufeelThabeet]

I'm sorry but I won't make an analysis on trevor ariza because he's quite a forgettable player

[bruddahmanmatt]

So the options are:

1) Morey is an idiot who made a really dumb move and got lucky and found an escape hatch;

or

2) Morey is an evil genius on par with Lex Luthor and Wile E. Coyote.


While I don't think that he's quite the lucky buffoon you make him out to be in your position I do think that it is more accurate in most ways. Morey made a move that made sense at the time (try to judge it then, not a year later); it became apparant that it wasn't going to work out, so he was not so stubborn and full of pride where he stood pat - he made a move, and it worked out well. I think that you're being very dismissive of him by chalking the Rockets part in that trade up to sheer luck. If there is one thing we've seen with this guy is that he will not make panic moves. I'm sure that he explored other options (Ariza to other teams; possibly Shane or Chase to other teams) before signing off on this deal. Yes, it was fortunate for the Rockets that they got out of what has now become (in hindsight) a bad signing; but I don't think that the Rockets would be freaking out right now if Ariza was still on the roster. Most of us were shocked that he was traded, as we've been beaten over the head with talk that Ariza was a good fit and a key part of the future.

But to the people who are claiming that this was some Man Behind the Curtains stuff...come on, dude! Yeah, we all love the GM here, but most of us realize that he's a guy who's strength is acquiring assets and finding the best fits for the team. Ariza was thought to be a great fit. He was not acquired thinking that he'd be some piece in a future deal. That's just silliness speaking.

So from this Rockets fan - I think that while you are right, you are seriously doing an injustice to a good GM based on one move; however, you are way closer to reality than the dudes arguing with you that he is Dr. Evil and has Sharks with Laser Beams on the horizon.

Great topic, dude - glad you stopped by to post it!

Oh believe me, I think Morey is by far one of the best GM's in the league, and he definitely does have an eye for acquiring talented assets as evidenced by his decision to go after Lee when New Jersey made him available. Thing is, I just felt like my stance that Morey made a seemingly (at the time) good decision which ended up being wrong down the road was being dismissed by others who feel like Morey is a guy capable of doing no wrong which to me is simply impossible if you're a GM. Even the greatest GMs make moves that don't pan out down the road. What's even more ridiculous is that it was coming from a few Lakers fans and you'd think that given some of our front office's moves three or four years ago they'd know better than to declare any GM incapable of a mishap. I know hindsight is 20/20 but dayum, it doesn't give someone the right to go "oh yeah, I had that one planned all along". lol.

That being said, I dunno what the hell it is about your team's front office that always gets the pot stirring over in Laker land. This is the second topic I've posted on your folks' board. The first was one regarding the T-Mac trade and that thing apparently is still going. Whoops, sorry about that. I should have known that anything with the name "Walsh" in the title would attract Knicks fans like moths to a flame.

[Mr. E]

As much as it pains some Rockets fans to hear...yeah, Morey can make mistakes. What is good about him is that he recognizes them and tries to correct them. Some GM's would be too stubborn and dig their heels in; but Daryl operates under the mentality that you can always improve. That's what I like about the dude.

That and he's a wizard...who can control minds.

[dookieguy]

Turned out well for the Rockets in the long run. I think Courtney Lee might actually better than Trevor Ariza, and he's still on a rookie deal.

[bruddahmanmatt]

So just so I know that I'm not going crazy, the following in response to my comment would qualify as an idiot statement right?

What kind of genius GM would sign a player to a full five year MLE if he knows ahead of time that the guy will become expendable in only a year's time? Stupid or what?

The kind that graduates from MIT. GENIUS MOVE, that you find it stupid by correlating contract length when he got traded only exposes your ignorance to moneyball tactics. Not Moreys fault you dont understand the business.

[moofs]

Dunno if I'd call it that, but it doesn't seem coherent.

[So Gutta]

Ariza > Battier

Morey traded the wrong guy. You trade your young, athletic starting SF for a backup SG? It's cool that he liked Courtney Lee and all, but I'm not sure Lee is an improvement over Ariza, nor does he make the team more versatile. The Rockets had a more balanced roster with Ariza.

Morey seems like a smart guy, but what exactly has he done to earn any type of "genius" label? He's made some solid acquisitions, you guys have some nice pieces... but at some point, you gotta make a splash. Hopefully you will.

But you just added another wing player for a future 1st... Why give away your 1st round picks when you're trying to re-build? Doesn't make any sense to me.

[aznkillabeezZz]

Ariza is more of a true SF than Terrence williams is. He's 6'8 and has very long arms and good defensively. T Will, like you said is a wing player, combo guard 6'6. He has the athleticism so he can play SF too. Hopefully T Will can play good defense as an SF like Ariza. But it would be like playing with 3 wing players if you have him as an SF. Like we do with Chase Budinger as well with Courtney Lee in the SF position. Morey knew he messed up trading Ariza since Budinger is pretty bad defensively as an SF. And when his shots arent going down. He's a liability on both ends, That's why he got terrence williams. Here's to hoping T Williams can be a good backup for Battier.