Just Curious

[Geaux_Hawks]

Just wondering what is Jordan Hill to the Rockets?? Does he have some potential to be the starter or is he more of a rotational guy?

I look at the Rockets having Scola as the starter and Patterson(who I hear the fans are high on) as the back-up and maybe even keeping Chuck Hayes to go along with those 2, so what would be the need for Jordan Hill?

If a deal could be done, would something like Marvin Williams + Zaza + 2nd be enough to get Jordan Hill & Chase Budinger?

[Aaron Brooks]

Marvin Williams has a toxic contract

[texasholdem]

I don't think ATL has anything we want that they are willing to part with.
since you guys traded away this year's first for Hinrich, Hill for your 2013 first rounder?

[spolgar]

Right now Chuck Hayes is starting. Chuck is doing his best Willis impression and is playing out of his mind. Brad Miller is Chucks backup, with Hill switching on both the 4 and 5 when Miller's porous defence is too much of a liability. Scola starts at the 4 with Patterson recently barging into the lineup and knocking Hill down a notch on the depth chart, but Patterson can also play on the three against bigger dudes now that Chase is starting and Battier moved to Memphis.

Williams might never mature as offensive option while fighting for the ball between Johnson, Smith and Crawford. In fact his 3 is lacking compared to Budinger. He could be a much better defensive player _last year_ before his back injury. He is long, his length is astounding, he has great foot speed and hops.

Zaza is a likable player who was a rebounding phenom a few years back. He brings 275 lbs and a legit 6-10 to the roster. He's also got a decent ft% and has shot less than 15 3 pointers his entire career, something I really have came to appreciate in a big man. His minutes fell a great deal after the arrival of Al Horford.

Don't get me wrong, Marvin and Zaza are fascinating pieces. Marvin is especially salivating and Zaza brings something to the Rockets that we don't have right now, which is injury resistant players with size. They are good pieces, but IMHO, they need to go to different teams to prosper, and they don't bring things to us right away that we desperately need. Not that we don't need height and size in a durable package, but Zaza is never going to start for the Rockets at the rate Hayes is playing right now. In Adelman's system, a passing big man in the high post while we run the Princeton is crucial to starting the ball movement, and Zaza's assist to turnover ratios are more often than now < 1. That's just not going to work. Also, trading youth for Zaza is essentially a win now move, which the Rockets are not really pushing for. I re-iterate again, he is a good piece for a contender, just not one that would make us better than keeping Jordan Hill in the long haul.

Marvin Williams and Patrick Patterson are similar players, except that Williams is a better physical specimen, and Patterson is headier and calmer. Budinger brings excellent shooting as well as decent slashing to the basket (albeit not as good as Marvin in transition, but good enough), which neither Williams or Patterson really has right now in their repertoire at the 3.

Last but not least, Jordan Hill actually has a back to the basket game. When he has his motor on for crashing the glass, he's really a rarity of a prospect, it just seems that he sometimes stands around for no good reason and is not really understanding when to move away from the ball and when to cut. When you see his Rockets offensive highlights on youtube, they are always either in transition, or that he's at the receiving end of after making a good cut. There are no catch the ball at the low post, back in a few dribbles, spin and hook, up and under or those classic post moves. These are things that he would score with when he was in Arizona. The point of keeping Hill isn't for maximum utility now. Between the end of the bench in the NBA and the NBDL is unfortunately this uncomfortable purgatory where Hill currently resides. He needs to figure out how to pass the ball as a big man and function in Adelman's offense without being the focal point like where he was in college. Otherwise he'll be fine. Somewhere in America, training your new employees is apparently making a come back, and I wholeheartedly approve of this.

So I've thought about it for a bit, and the answer is I would probably not do the deal. And you could get better reloading pieces elsewhere right now for Zaza. And Marvin's probably not someone to give up on yet. But he would be extremely interesting for the Jazz, and I'm sure they have pieces to give back that would be more suitable for your team.

Oh and by the way, the salaries don't come close to matching

[Guy986]

I'll make this short. No.

[MaxRider]

you know why marvin williams still in atlanta?
because nobody want him

[Geaux_Hawks]

Marvin needs the ball in place where we have a guy who dominates the ball and 2 PF's that must get touches as well, to be more effective for the Hawks offensively, but a guy like Budinger, who can hit the 3 a bit better would really relieve Joe and then spread the floor more for Smith and Horford to work.

Hawks need a SF who can shoot from the perimeter and a Big to crash on the offensive end. You say Hill has a back-to-the-basket game, so that intrigues me even more to add maybe a '14 first.
I look at Hill and see no where for him to really get time to play with Patterson most likely backing Scola and Hayes being the Center, and im pretty sure the Rockets are going to get a more bigger legit 7 foot Center.

Zaza can actually handle the ball pretty decent for a big, he just tends to want to do to much, when given the space to do so and at times has dribbled it off his foot once he looks to make a great play. He gets alot of and-1's as well. Yeah you are giving up some youth for Zaza, but he will be better suited for the playoffs once Houston finds a legit Center because I believe Marvin will make huge strides in Adelman's offense as he can sneak in back door cuts, back down the smaller SF's, and hits well from mid-range and as you say he finishes great in transition. No to mention his defense is what we use him more for sense he lacks touches on offense. It would be like having Battier without the perimeter shooting and a bit less D.

Salary is the biggest off-set, but it isn't as horrendous as people make it seem especially with a guy like Marvin who really needs a place to be the 3rd option on. Houston could use a 3rd/4th option guy, who can get you 15 points and 8 rebounds a night.

[Kal El]

No to mention his defense is what we use him more for sense he lacks touches on offense. It would be like having Battier without the perimeter shooting and a bit less D.

if there is a chance for this trade to go down, it would come down to 2 factors. 1. zaza because of his size and 2. marvin williams perimeter defense. his contract is far from pretty but he does have a good offensive game for a 3rd/4th option guy. BUT, how is his perimeter defense and his ability to defend a guy 1 on 1. would you say he is the type of defender in close rank with a guy like thabo sefolosha or luol deng? or just a good, solid defender.

[Mr. E]

I would not even consider either of those trades you've offered.

[spolgar]

I'll make this short. No.

Haha. Touche.

Marvin needs the ball in place where we have a guy who dominates the ball and 2 PF's that must get touches as well, to be more effective for the Hawks offensively, but a guy like Budinger, who can hit the 3 a bit better would really relieve Joe and then spread the floor more for Smith and Horford to work.

...

Oh I'm not saying that Marvin wouldn't evolve into having Jeff Green like career if he went to the right spot. In fact, for the first year or so of freedom, I bet he's going to throw up Dorrell Wright like numbers.

That's the point though, everything he does well, we have someone that already does that with higher efficiency. We have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th option in scoring, in Martin, Scola, Lowry, Budinger and then whoever is in the middle. So the last place he's going to do it if he is traded, is to do it here.

Hill is not going to play for a minute, but Rick Adelman simply does not play youth until he knows them. Besides, the Rockets tradition seems to have a great deal of paying your dues and waiting for the right opportunity. In the faster, smaller, NBA a legit 7 footer isn't really needed anymore to go deep into the playoffs. Jordan Hill will come around and he's still got a bit to figure out in the pressure cooker.

You want to do this package deal with Heat with another team. Mike Miller isn't doing squat there now that they have Eddie House and James Jones to spread the floor. Marvin will bring more athleticism to the front court on which their second unit that direly needs it. You get the spot shooter with 3 range that you covet. I don't think my fellow board mates love the deal so far either...

Best of luck buddy.

[Mr. E]

I think you've said all that can be said about this idea, spolgar. This is simply not a good idea for the Rockets, and the attempts to try to convince otherwise have fallen far short. This is long before we even consider the salary figures not coming close to working. Not a good trade partner.

[spolgar]

Yeah, I figured I'd err on the side of verbose to make sure that the guy knows that I thought it through before I said no. I was trying to be as polite as possible.

[Geaux_Hawks]

No to mention his defense is what we use him more for sense he lacks touches on offense. It would be like having Battier without the perimeter shooting and a bit less D.

if there is a chance for this trade to go down, it would come down to 2 factors. 1. zaza because of his size and 2. marvin williams perimeter defense. his contract is far from pretty but he does have a good offensive game for a 3rd/4th option guy. BUT, how is his perimeter defense and his ability to defend a guy 1 on 1. would you say he is the type of defender in close rank with a guy like thabo sefolosha or luol deng? or just a good, solid defender.

Just to answer your question, I don't think Deng is a better defender, but Marvin isn't a lock down Thabo type guy either. But he can defend the 2-4 positions.

For the ones that say it's not a good trade for you all, let me say that I do understand what is being said, but nobody made it clear that Budinger was a clear cut 4th option for you all. I mean I just figure a 4th option guy would be giving you 13 points or better anyway. Yeah, has value to me as a perimeter shooter, and thats more of why I wanted the guy and was willing to part with Marvin if we could get Hill as well for Zaza. Alot of people, say the Rockets need a better SF and some front-court size. Outside of salary, that would be a good deal. Not a "hurry up and get it done" deal, but definitely a good one.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Miami would be possibly the worst trade partner as well BTW..

[texasholdem]

Here's the trade I want this summer.

Houston sends: Chase Budinger, Jordan Hill and Terrance Williams
Phoenix sends: Marcin Gortat (he was great vs LAL and Gasol)

Rockets
SF: *use both first rounders on small forwards or package them to move up higher
PF: Scola, Patterson
C: Hayes, Gortat, Thabeet
PG: Lowry, Dragic
SG: Martin, Lee (or if Lee keeps playing like he did vs GSW then keep him at "SF")

* - Marcus Morris? Jordan Hamilton? Terrance Jones? Tyler Honeycutt? Kawhi Leonard? Kyle Singler?

[MaxRider]

i don't think clippers' cheap owner is going to match jordan's offer
if they do that mean they are going to trade kaman
we could possible get one of them