Jeremy Lin's role on the Team

[Mr. E]

This thread is to discuss the best role and use of Jeremy Lin for the Houston Rockets.

If you cannot make your point without snide comments, racial attacks or unfounded accusations of racism against others then please do not participate.

If someone disagrees with your opinion that is NOT a personal attack against you. You can argue your position, but be mindful how you do so. The lenience shown in a recently-closed thread will not exist here.

Redundant topics will be merged into this thread.

If you feel the need to post a trade idea then the stickied Trade thread is a more appropriante place for that kind of thing.

If you feel the need to post that you wish that the Rockets would trade him with no other substance to the message then save everyone the time and keep the comment to yourself. We're all pretty sick of that song & dance around here.

I open the floor to all of you: what is the best role for Jeremy Lin for the success of the Houston Rockets organization?

[LarsV8]

I think that his career highs indicate he is currently in his ideal role as an offense spark off the bench.

[zapatasblood]

I like Lin off the bench but if they start Lin then whatever. I do not care either way I just want wins, which is the most important thing.

[Mr. E]

I think that his career highs indicate he is currently in his ideal role as an offense spark off the bench.

I disagreed with that at the start of the season (preferring him as the starter); but I'm beginning to come around to your POV.

I am not going to look at last night's game as the norm - he is coming off of an injury and Sampson's rotations are...questionable, to be polite.

He needs 25-30 minutes a night. Not only to be effective, but to help limit Harden & Parsons' minutes as well.

[LarsV8]

I don't like assigning minutes to guys because it restricts the flexibility to match opposing lineups. If Lillard, Paul, Westbrook, Curry, Parker or any other elite offensive point guard is on the floor for 40 minutes, then I want Beverley out there for that time as well. If it's 10 minutes, great. If we are playing the Lakers and it is a weaker matchup like a Steve Blake, Conley, Rubio, then I am okay with Lin seeing more time.

I toss and turn at night worrying about our defense, not our offense.

[KungFuJoe]

It seems the coaching staff has no clue on what to do with Lin. They don't really have a clue how to utilize any of their players, to be honest. This team wins in spite of the coaches, not because of. From the failed TT, to allowing Harden to play ISO hero ball and ignore defense...to running the starters into the ground...and ultimately, playing Beverley, who I like, but let's be honest...is not a starting caliber PG...nearly 40 mpg.

Which leads me to say that at this point, if McHale doesn't get fired, I honestly wish Lin would just get traded along with Asik. If they refuse to give him the reins...and they just want some scoring off the bench, I'd like to see AB get more minutes.

He really has no role on this team. He's not the PG...Beverley and Harden bring the ball up more than he does. Is he a SG? No...Harden's got that spot on lockdown and it's not the position he wants to play. He's not the guy that runs the second team...because the starters play so many minutes (specifically Harden who gets 40 a game) it's rare that we see him running the show. The Asik situation and Smith being hurt affects this a bit, but I'm pretty sure that even if the were playing, we wouldn't see any difference in the rotations.

With all that said, I'm still very impressed that Lin is having a better season than he did last year, in spite of not really being utilized well...or at all. He will find success...just probably won't be with this team. Not as long as McHale is at the helm.

[LarsV8]

^Yea I disagree with just about all of that.

He is arguably playing better than he did during Linsanity. Seems to be in the absolute perfect role for his strengths and weaknesses.

[KungFuJoe]

^Yea I disagree with just about all of that.

He is arguably playing better than he did during Linsanity. Seems to be in the absolute perfect role for his strengths and weaknesses.

Of course you disagree.

[minimalist1972]

I think Lin's clearly a starting-caliber PG in this league, even on good teams. In fact, on a team with a high-quality roll man, Lin can be pretty close to an elite play-maker. I also think that, under the right coach (right for him does not mean great coach; e.g., although extraordinarily influential in the last ten years, D'Antoni will never be a great playoff coach, but his offensive philosophy fits Lin very well), Lin's eventual ceiling is pretty close to Tony Parker: they are, as Parker himself once noted, very similar-style players; and I don't think Parker is what he is today without a Popovich. Lin's defensive abilities are not as terrible as some superficial observers have noted, although he is admittedly not a great match-up against elite shooters; but no one can deny his effort or his nose for steals. His stroke has improved and 37-39% from the arc for the remainder of his career is entirely plausible. He has always been an excellent slasher with a great first step. I'm afraid turnovers are endemic to his style of play, as they are for players like Harden and Holiday, and I can't see much significant improvements in that area of his game. Certainly, we have not seen any improvements at all thus far.

Now, having said all that, on this particular team with Harden at the starting-2, Lin's best off playing off the bench. Ideally, Asik would have stayed and joined him there. Any serious observer who thinks otherwise is, I believe, too prejudiced in favor of Lin.

And the most relevant factors have little to do with Lin's individual strengths and weaknesses. Harden's an excellent offensive guard but someone needs to hide his defensive flaws. (I don't know why Harden couldn't be a good defender, it's not like he doesn't have the requisite physical attributes like speed, lateral motion and wingspan. I suspect it's mostly attitudinal--or to speculate even further, maybe he's one of those elite offensive players who burn up all their energy on just one side of the court. Look at all the elite offensive players in the leagues: Harden's certainly not alone. I've no idea.) Lin won't be able to do that. For that purpose, Bev is the best option for this team. Now, I don't think Bev is an elite perimeter defender. Again, one would have to have on some serious blinders to believe that. But he's what the Rox have. Second, Harden is a ball-dominant closet PG (or, as Kevin Martin once described him, a "shooting point guard"), so his skill set is obviously redundant to Lin's. (I think this point has been repeated ad nauseaum, so I'll just stop there.) Why expend both players at the same time doing the same stuff when you can optimize offensive efficiency by staggering them back-to-back? Third, I have no idea why but Dwight's really not been a very good roll man since he signed up with LA last year. Not that he can't roll and finish, but he just doesn't seem that into it. Maybe I'm deceived by memory, but I recall his being quite a good--and willing--p-n-r big in Orlando. (He's also been getting fewer touches, probably because the guards don't trust him in the post.) Since the p-n-r is Lin's team-tactical strength, this team is therefore better off with Lin running the p-n-r with the secondary bigs (Greg Smith, I guess; also, T-Jones and D-Mo).

Finally, as a Knicks fan I would like Lin back home in NYC where he belongs. I also know that that will never happen because Dolan's a knob. Given that, even though Lin's not starting for the Rox, I think the Rox is a good situation for him. At least he gets to be on a playoff team in a culturally diverse city; and, despite everything, he seems relatively happy there. And when he gets traded--which is, let's face it, inevitable--I hope he winds up on a decent team that'll let him start. But as long as he's in Houston, off the bench is best for the Rox, and probably best for him too.

[Nebula1]

Mr. E with that slam!

Glad to see the other thread locked.

Lin's role has been solid as either a starter or reserve and I like him on the team.

[minimalist1972]

I forgot. I've been meaning to ask you folks this.

Before acquiring Lin, what kind of offense did McHale run?

I didn't really pay any attention to the Rox back then, but I was under the impression that the offense they came up with last year--the uptempo spread p-n-r--was designed to accommodate Lin's strengths. (Harden didn't join the team until the end of training camp, and was integrated into the same offensive scheme.) Under that impression, I gave McHale a lot of credit for playing to his roster's strengths. By the same token, I felt that McHale had bent over backwards to accommodate Lin and gave him half the season to prove his value. If that's true then LOF-McHale haters should have no ground to stand on.

In general, I don't think McHale's a great coach. But I think he's a pretty good one and certainly not deserving of some of the vitriol directed against him on this site and elsewhere.

[LarsV8]

^Yea I disagree with just about all of that.

He is arguably playing better than he did during Linsanity. Seems to be in the absolute perfect role for his strengths and weaknesses.

Of course you disagree.

He specifically asked us not to do this. You can talk about Lin or my points without talking about me.

If you cannot make your point without snide comments, racial attacks or unfounded accusations of racism against others then please do not participate.

[KungFuJoe]

^Yea I disagree with just about all of that.

He is arguably playing better than he did during Linsanity. Seems to be in the absolute perfect role for his strengths and weaknesses.

Of course you disagree.

He specifically asked us not to do this. You can talk about Lin or my points without talking about me.

If you cannot make your point without snide comments, racial attacks or unfounded accusations of racism against others then please do not participate.

I don't think I made a snide comment, nor did I say anything about you being a racist (which I haven't even hinted at, and my post history proves that).

But, let's face the facts. You're a Lin hater. I don't know why you don't like the guy, but it's pretty obvious you don't. The "gimmick" comment you made in another thread was all the proof I needed.

I can't discuss Lin with guys like you. You're not objective at all. I know you probably think I'm a LOF and I'm not objective...and that's fine.

I'd much rather you just put me on ignore or something because I seriously cringe at pretty much anything you have to say that is Lin related.

[WhyISO]

You play te best player from start to finish. Period.

The great coaches in the league (pop & doc) runs picks and screens until their opponents die.
Lin's role should be starter with Bev coming in for defensive efforts. Harden and Lin finished as Too 3 back courts last season. Why ruin something that worked?

[KungFuJoe]

I forgot. I've been meaning to ask you folks this.

Before acquiring Lin, what kind of offense did McHale run?

I didn't really pay any attention to the Rox back then, but I was under the impression that the offense they came up with last year--the uptempo spread p-n-r--was designed to accommodate Lin's strengths. (Harden didn't join the team until the end of training camp, and was integrated into the same offensive scheme.) Under that impression, I gave McHale a lot of credit for playing to his roster's strengths. By the same token, I felt that McHale had bent over backwards to accommodate Lin and gave him half the season to prove his value. If that's true then LOF-McHale haters should have no ground to stand on.

In general, I don't think McHale's a great coach. But I think he's a pretty good one and certainly not deserving of some of the vitriol directed against him on this site and elsewhere.

McHale would prefer to dump it down to the big man and pound the hell out of the other team. His own words. However, he did say that he tries to build a plan around his players. I mean, let's face it...of course he's going to say and try that.

My main beef with McHale is that he doesn't hold all his players to the same standard. He turns a blind eye on Haren's lack of defense, but yanks Lin out when he commits a bad TO.

[princeton_o]

^Yea I disagree with just about all of that.

He is arguably playing better than he did during Linsanity. Seems to be in the absolute perfect role for his strengths and weaknesses.

Of course you disagree.

You have to keep in mind that there are certain individuals who are hardwired to be "company men." Such as Smithers. They are brown nosers and sycophants and can't think independently. They rely on some powerful figure or institution to identify with and become blindly loyal to it and irrationally dogmatic and defensive about it's decisions and actions.

They're like the senator's aides who blindly follow and then wind up dead in a ditch or under a river because they went along with the sadistic and exploitative plans of their master to the very end.

Cult followers are the same way.

[LarsV8]

Sorry Mr. E

[WhyISO]

I forgot. I've been meaning to ask you folks this.

Before acquiring Lin, what kind of offense did McHale run?

I didn't really pay any attention to the Rox back then, but I was under the impression that the offense they came up with last year--the uptempo spread p-n-r--was designed to accommodate Lin's strengths. (Harden didn't join the team until the end of training camp, and was integrated into the same offensive scheme.) Under that impression, I gave McHale a lot of credit for playing to his roster's strengths. By the same token, I felt that McHale had bent over backwards to accommodate Lin and gave him half the season to prove his value. If that's true then LOF-McHale haters should have no ground to stand on.

In general, I don't think McHale's a great coach. But I think he's a pretty good one and certainly not deserving of some of the vitriol directed against him on this site and elsewhere.

McHale would prefer to dump it down to the big man and pound the hell out of the other team. His own words. However, he did say that he tries to build a plan around his players. I mean, let's face it...of course he's going to say and try that.

My main beef with McHale is that he doesn't hold all his players to the same standard. He turns a blind eye on Haren's lack of defense, but yanks Lin out when he commits a bad TO.

That's typical of a Coach that have no command or respect. He'll take it out on the lesser players because he knows the superstar will get him run out of town.

[WhyISO]

Sorry Mr. E

Nothing to be sorry about.
You state your opinion with no facts or stats. Anyone can do that, your dislike of Lin is will publicized.

[KungFuJoe]

That's typical of a Coach that have no command or respect. He'll take it out on the lesser players because he knows the superstar will get him run out of town.

In a sense you can't completely blame him. I mean, it's job security and no one wants to get fired. I kinda feel sorry for him because he now has to deal with DH as well and everyone is well aware of what went on in Orlando.

But, I wish he would, just ONCE, call out Haren for his bad defense. He has no problem talking about Lin's TOs or how he is about "me" and not the team.

That being said, wasn't McHale just supposed to be the interim coach?