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Over/Under 1 day this thread will be locked by a moderator?

Click for full article: http://rockets.clutchfans.net/6001/patr ... eremy-lin/

So trust me when I say I know what many fans want to hear. I know how easy it would be right now to be that pageview-pushing troll who writes that Kevin McHale has an irrational dislike of Jeremy Lin and is killing a championship team because of it.

Unfortunately I can’t do that, because it’s just not true.

Jeremy Lin should not start for the Houston Rockets. That job belongs to Patrick Beverley right now, and frankly, it’s not even a close call anymore.

When Beverley went down with a fractured hand in December, expected to be out four to six weeks, it gave Jeremy Lin the perfect opportunity to show he was the right fit in the starting lineup. After all, the criticism coming from some of Lin’s fans was that there was no way of knowing how Lin would do in the same position, if given the same starting opportunity.

...and boom goes they dynamite.

The article goes on to point out that Lin has been outstanding off the bench and has put up better numbers as the 6th man than the starter.

I'm guessing this could have gone in an existing thread. However, I agree with the premise.

Vator wrote:Over/Under 1 day this thread will be locked by a moderator?

Click for full article: http://rockets.clutchfans.net/6001/patr ... eremy-lin/

So trust me when I say I know what many fans want to hear. I know how easy it would be right now to be that pageview-pushing troll who writes that Kevin McHale has an irrational dislike of Jeremy Lin and is killing a championship team because of it.

Unfortunately I can’t do that, because it’s just not true.

Jeremy Lin should not start for the Houston Rockets. That job belongs to Patrick Beverley right now, and frankly, it’s not even a close call anymore.

When Beverley went down with a fractured hand in December, expected to be out four to six weeks, it gave Jeremy Lin the perfect opportunity to show he was the right fit in the starting lineup. After all, the criticism coming from some of Lin’s fans was that there was no way of knowing how Lin would do in the same position, if given the same starting opportunity.

...and boom goes they dynamite.

The article goes on to point out that Lin has been outstanding off the bench and has put up better numbers as the 6th man than the starter.

He's a numbers person, I'm more into the people factor. I think the Rockets are now running a system that favors Beverley so his numbers with the team may look better. However, Lin played 82 games last year and didn't his win percentage help the team get to the playoffs? The real story is style. If you ask a classical musician to play in a country band, he won't do very well. It's not his strength. If you ask him to play in a symphony, he does better. And vice versa. So, Beverley in a PnR heavy offense would have to rely more on Harden where Lin would flourish and get balls to big men and open shooters all day long. On the defensive end Bev has edge in point of attack, Lin maybe on team defense and post up strength. I think CF loves to look at apparent hustle vs. overall energy. Bev is moving around and hustling and that energy shows as it looks constant. Lin is banging into big guys on drives and going for steals so his energy is more in spurts. But both guys play hard and give energy. Lin's energy encourages team play, Bev's more play harder defensive energy but fast breaks off of TOs execution goes to Lin if he initiates them or is part of them.

I think "Clutch" isn't a fan of Lin's presence in his forum and fans he brought there. But I also think Clutch isn't a fan of Lin's game and he has a lot of people that feel the same in that forum. So, anyone trying to make a case for Lin are outnumbered and of course they have that in some group or another category. I think Lin really is just a huge weapon used the right way and with the coach's backing. He now worries about stuff on the court as opposed to playing free. And he's not a shooting guard. He's a point guard. He's changed since "Linsanity", not looking to hoist up so many shots but become more of a point guard scoring in the teens mostly but capable of 20s and some 30s nights and is capable of scoring in the 40s. But he loves assisting where on the Rockets so does Harden. He's looking more to play team ball, and I love team ball players. Bev is more of an energy player, and I guess he does fit well under the current system. I think that system is limited though and will only take them so far against tough teams. They'll still need Lin's firepower to get them further, or some other offensively strong PG if Lin's traded.

IBLOF


**EDIT**
nevermind i was too late

Nebula1 wrote:I'm guessing this could have gone in an existing thread. However, I agree with the premise.

Obviously I disagree.

I'm not for bumping old threads that have already run their course and although much of this data has been discussed, this is a new article from a source that many of us respect. Also, with Beverely having been out for a few weeks, the sample sizes are now much easier to compare because the minutes played are much closer than before. The Beverley Returns topic would be the closest thing on the first page that this could possibly go in and that is only because of the posts that veer off topic into the Beverley/Lin debate.

Bev should start and I like Lin a lot. It really isn't a debate. We HAVE to have defense at one of the guard positions and since Haren (credit maxrider) isn't going to all of the sudden transform then it has to be Beverley at pg. It makes sense for Lin to be the 6th man on so many levels that its not worth debating.

If at this point you still think Lin should start then I'm sure there is a yahoo page you can go "debate" on.

^^^Other than a few lapses in concentration here and there, Harden's defense has been noticeably better. Let’s give credit where credit is due, but I digress. Back on topic.

Yea this is obvious, Lin needs to learn when to slow himself down because he definitely has the tools, right now I think everyone sees him in that vital scorer off the bench.

This debate is over we need to move on to "who should start between Jones/Motie"


Jones is a bit a erratic and sometimes I think he plays outside of his ability but it never seems to backfire.
Dmo small sample size these past 4 games but I think he has finally realized how to get pt and thats by doing all the small things, boxing out, taking charges, just being an overall pest... he is playing like a 7ft Beverley.


Of course I think Jones should continue to start but if Dmo keeps this up, those small things would make huge difference especially in the PO when one of the teams biggest weakness are giving up orebs.

I have looked at some of the lineup data in depth and the problem with Lin starting is he is taking the ball out of Parsons hands. When Lin is on the court, Parsons becomes an extremely low usage guy with very bad production (sub 50% TS).

As we saw last night, the Rockets are at their best when Parsons is involved.

ALPHAandOMEGA wrote:Bev should start and I like Lin a lot. It really isn't a debate. We HAVE to have defense at one of the guard positions and since Haren (credit maxrider) .

Hey I made the Haren joke before Max and everyone started overusing it.
James' defense has improved but still not good enough if he wants to be considered a superstar.

Zubby wrote:This debate is over we need to move on to "who should start between Jones/Motie"


Jones is a bit a erratic and sometimes I think he plays outside of his ability but it never seems to backfire.
Dmo small sample size these past 4 games but I think he has finally realized how to get pt and thats by doing all the small things, boxing out, taking charges, just being an overall pest... he is playing like a 7ft Beverley.


Of course I think Jones should continue to start but if Dmo keeps this up, those small things would make huge difference especially in the PO when one of the teams biggest weakness are giving up orebs.

I was thinking the same thing. Obviously TJones has put up much better stats, and still deserves to start...plus he's getting better and better. But DMo in the last couple of his games, his activity has been great, he's boxing out better than TJones IMO, and he's found the range, which TJones doesn't have in his game right now. Dwight had so much room on those moves in the post last game. Reggie kept talking about quick moves, but he was also able to make those quick moves, b/c our spacing was excellent last night.

When Bev stinks it up soon with no assists in 32 minutes and scores 3 points (on 1 for 6 from three because that's the only shot he's got)....as he has before...the critics will rule the day. For Bev fans and LOH'ers, enjoy the day. Last night was for you.

And Bev should start. And he should continue to play big minutes if he can consistently knock down the three like he did last night (this has yet to be seen). I'm one of Lin's biggest fans...I've even said he's the guy I root for the most on the team to play well, because I like him, and his talent. But right now, he hasn't played well lately, and I really liked what I saw from him in a bench role earlier this season - ESPECIALLY when he plays with Beverely in the backcourt. And, doesn't anyone kinda get the sense that Lin plays better when he has to prove himself? Off the bench, that sort of motivation is always there x10...and when he was coming off the bench and putting up big games, he was finishing games. That's how it should be. Whoever is playing better should finish. Both are likely to play similar-ish minutes, and both are crucially important for determining our success this season.

Hank7 wrote:When Bev stinks it up soon with no assists in 32 minutes and scores 3 points (on 1 for 6 from three because that's the only shot he's got)....as he has before...the critics will rule the day. For Bev fans and LOH'ers, enjoy the day. Last night was for you.

Bev is playing for defensive purpose
doesn't matter if his assist is 0

Hank7 wrote:When Bev stinks it up soon with no assists in 32 minutes and scores 3 points (on 1 for 6 from three because that's the only shot he's got)....as he has before...the critics will rule the day. For Bev fans and LOH'ers, enjoy the day. Last night was for you.

Last night was for fans of the Houston Rockets who enjoyed watching their team get a quality victory over a good opponent on national TV.

Talkin' 'bout bias. But hey he's the owner of the site so he can do whatever that pleases him, freedom of speech be damned; silencing of the opposing voices, controlling the opinions of the masses are the order.

This person has a lot of power in his hands and he knows how to abuse it. It's a case of modern micro totalitarianism. Dark times for Rockets fans indeed. It's funny how every one of his minions just clap without critical thinking. (they sometimes call it circle jerk) And then the mob goes on and proclaim, "how dare you challenge il Duce! You deserve to be banished! We love ourselves! Kill you all!"

Luckily he doesn't have monopoly over the entire internet and we have RealGM!

Anyways, enough of the venting on the dark side of human nature and back to b-ball talk, one important factor that is missing in this "article" is: Lin hasn't been allowed to play his game when he started, therefore the data extracted from this situation isn't exactly pertinent. In other words, the math isn't absolutely scientific, it's man made.

Some other insights in response that aren't exactly being considered in this article but has real life consequences: Lin clearly had a swagger before being mistreated by the coaching staff, Lin's defense has been great, D12 needs a good passing PG to maximize his game and in order to be a contender we need him to be dominant, it's not healthy for Harden to shoulder all burdens offensively and not be a two way player, it's a good strategy against bad teams but can't work against great teams in the playoffs.

EDIT: And talki' 'bout small sample size. One game and someone comes with this this kind of pomposity, no wonder the fanbase/website is so divided, with so much hate and bickering going on.

ChokeFasncists wrote:Talkin' 'bout bias. But hey he's the owner of the site so he can do whatever that pleases him, freedom of speech be damned; silencing of the opposing voices, controlling the opinions of the masses are the order.

This person has a lot of power in his hands and he knows how to abuse it. It's a case of modern micro totalitarianism. Dark times for Rockets fans indeed. It's funny how every one of his minions just clap without critical thinking. (they sometimes call it circle jerk) And then the mob goes on and proclaim, "how dare you challenge il Duce! You deserve to be banished! We love ourselves! Kill you all!"

Luckily he doesn't have monopoly over the entire internet and we have RealGM!

Anyways, enough of the venting on the dark side of human nature and back to b-ball talk, one important factor that is missing in this "article" is: Lin hasn't been allowed to play his game when he started, therefore the data extracted from this situation isn't exactly pertinent. In other words, the math isn't absolutely scientific, it's man made.

Some other insights in response that aren't exactly being considered in this article but has real life consequences: Lin clearly had a swagger before being mistreated by the coaching staff, Lin's defense has been great, D12 needs a good passing PG to maximize his game and in order to be a contender we need him to be dominant, it's not healthy for Harden to shoulder all burdens offensively and not be a two way player, it's a good strategy against bad teams but can't work against great teams in the playoffs.

EDIT: And talki' 'bout small sample size. One game and someone comes with this this kind of pomposity, no wonder the fanbase/website is so divided, with so much hate and bickering going on.

Hardisty (Clutch) has always been biased so no surprise here with the knee-jerk article. I heard that he went on a purging spree of most Lin fans including the level-headed ones so yeah he can control the opinions on his site to whatever direction he pleases. I was a member there early on and once questioned why he would make a completely separate thread singling out a "dumb" question by Chinese reporter to McHale w/video and everything. I asked him why it was necessary to create a thread for that, obviously Lin is going to have a bunch of questionable reporters with limited basketball knowledge supporting him. I was banned for that, but it was clear to me that Clutch had a thing against Lin fans very early on and since then all he has done was create a culture of hate between the so called factions, LOFs and LOHs, and siding with one group. Pretty sad and disappointing for a site owner to take this stance, I haven't had an account there since and have very little respect for him as being someone impartial.

Now onto the article, he may have a point that Beverley may be a better "fit" with the starters on this team albeit relatively small sample size. But the way that he makes this out to be a slam dunk case was totally unnecessary and immature imo. But that's Clutch for you, the tone of the article is spiteful just like his website.

At the start of the season I was neutral who started since the numbers last year had them both performing nearly identically, both offensive and defensive statistics. This year the stats are much more tilted toward bev.

The thing is though you can't even make the argument Lin is being used incorrectly. The premise there is Lin should be put into more PnRs, but Harden is a far better PnR player than Lin. And as the 3rd option, Lin is taking away shots from Parsons, who is having another breakout season, and the stats also reflect this. A much stronger argument is that Lin IS in fact being used correctly, and it's really just folks who are completely biased toward wanting Lin to start and somehow undeservedly be featured as a focal point of the offense left trying to grasp at straws.

It's pretty funny, but imagine if Lin was never released and Linsanity never happened. I think everybody would just see Lin as young player who is providing solid minutes to the ballclub (and would be on a steal of a contract as well).

Lin as a stater the team is 13-6
Beverley as a starter the team is 15-9

These are the only stats that need to be taken into account. and there is nothing clear about what that guy who runs his site with a bias so clear it's embarrassing makes it out to be. One guy is sacrificing and playing out of position the other is not.

BaYBaller wrote:At the start of the season I was neutral who started since the numbers last year had them both performing nearly identically, both offensive and defensive statistics. This year the stats are much more tilted toward bev.

The thing is though you can't even make the argument Lin is being used incorrectly. The premise there is Lin should be put into more PnRs, but Harden is a far better PnR player than Lin. And as the 3rd option, Lin is taking away shots from Parsons, who is having another breakout season, and the stats also reflect this. A much stronger argument is that Lin IS in fact being used correctly, and it's really just folks who are completely biased toward wanting Lin to start and somehow undeservedly be featured as a focal point of the offense left trying to grasp at straws.

It's pretty funny, but imagine if Lin was never released and Linsanity never happened. I think everybody would just see Lin as young player who is providing solid minutes to the ballclub (and would be on a steal of a contract as well).

The real issue is one guy is being put in a position to fail because he's being played away from his strong suits and the other guy isn't. Lin is an energy player who thrives with the ball in his hands, attacking the basket when the team needs him most... how many times in Houston this year has he been put in that situation? once maybe twice... How many times have you seen him play in Houston with the energy, passion, and intensity he played with in NY? I would guess a handful. That spirit is still in him because it's a naturally inherent characteristic built into the person and that doesn't go away it's stifled.

If Houston holds onto Lin throughout the duration of the contract it won't ever be any more clear that he's being treated as a gimmick and a PR decision. Move him and Asik.. trade them.. their (Houston's) personnel moves thereafter the original RFA signings are proof enough the franchise didn't really believe in them.

Morey made the two deals out of desperation. He clearly viewed Asik as a stop gap to Howard and Lin as a good PR move to make himself look good for cutting him the first time and to at the very least sell him to the Asian markets if he didn't pan out.