The $188 million gamble in Howard and Harden

baki · Post #1 » by **baki** » Sat May 3, 2014 11:46 am

So we have a center who is done with developing any new moves despite being in the league for 10 years, and we have a shooting guard that's afraid to defend, run or create moves other than 3 pointers and layups.

Seriously what kind of coach or solution do you know that can turn Howard into half as good as Shaq offensively and Harden into something useful like Pippen? Because these guys right now are not off the shelf solutions for any team at the moment.

ChokeFasncists · Post #2 » by **ChokeFasncists** » Sat May 3, 2014 11:55 am

It seems to me Dwight has improved his post game with Dream.

000001 · Post #3 » by **000001** » Sat May 3, 2014 12:05 pm

HARDEN AND HOWARD ARE GREAT TALENTS THEY JUST NEED MORE HELP

PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD

Zubby · Post #4 » by **Zubby** » Sat May 3, 2014 12:32 pm

Ok thanks?

Sent from my LG-P769 using RealGM Forums mobile app

baki · Post #5 » by **baki** » Sat May 3, 2014 1:30 pm

ChokeFasncists wrote:It seems to me Dwight has improved his post game with Dream.

Really? I see the same player he was back in Orlando.

10 years is a long time to improve on something, at least some kind of mid or bank shot.

baki · Post #6 » by **baki** » Sat May 3, 2014 1:32 pm

000001 wrote:HARDEN AND HOWARD ARE GREAT TALENTS THEY JUST NEED MORE HELP

PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD

They need more help personally, it is absurd to try and spend more money spoon feeding these guys with another 3rd overpaid starter because it'll never work with these guys. This thread is absolutely relevant because I don't want to spend the next 2-3 years watching these 2 guys.

Howard's scoring numbers will start to decline once a badly needed 3rd scoring option becomes a factor on this team, which is fine, but this would render him to rebounding and defensive duties which have already started to declined and for good reason, he is getting old. When you get older, you hurt more, you take shortcuts running the floor and playing the game. Unless Howard can improve to a 70-80% FT shooter and develop a dependable midrange shot that can open up the middle I see Houston babysitting for the most expensive baby in the world. I don't see any improvement if the past 10 years are any indication of what he has done as a player unless someone can suggest some legitimate solution.

Just where did all the Harden ISOs and drawing touch fouls on almost every drive go during the playoffs? That's right, this is the playoffs where none of that kiddy stuff works anymore. Remember when I said that his game is really boring to watch? Well the NBA thinks so too. What I never saw coming was how lazy he was as a defender and generally as a player because he was not like this back at OKC. He needs to improve tremendously on defense, as a ball snitch, shot blocker or whatever. He is arguably our most athletic player on the team, so at the very least he should be guarding the best player on the other team (ie. Lebron, Lillard etc). Harden also needs to learn how to post up. He is not a finesse type of shooter, but more of a slashing power shooter. He needs to man up and use his strength in other ways other than to camp at the 3 pointer line otherwise he is just another Rashard Lewis.

victorhe · Post #7 » by **victorhe** » Sat May 3, 2014 2:08 pm

If we can trade any of these guys for Durant or Lebron, I am all for it. Unfortunately, that's highly unlikely. hehe, so ya, think Rox gonna be stuck on this for a while. Eventhough we would like to stay optimistic, but it's hard for me to imagine with howard and Harden, we could win a championship. Howard after his season is on his decline as well, and Harden definitely needs to play better defense and play team game. No more ISOs please. Maybe a coach change will help.

Sunsdeuce · Post #8 » by **Sunsdeuce** » Sat May 3, 2014 2:18 pm

Outside perspective. I think a coaching change would work wonders for ur team. The rockets have some good players. Stay positive there are a lot of teams that would love to have the talent the rockets have. Maybe upgrade the pg position and your right there.

baki · Post #9 » by **baki** » Sat May 3, 2014 2:27 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:Outside perspective. I think a coaching change would work wonders for ur team. The rockets have some good players. Stay positive there are a lot of teams that would love to have the talent the rockets have. Maybe upgrade the pg position and your right there.

Like I said, getting in a big name 3rd scoring option is only going to reduce someone else's numbers. Assuming if that player was Lillard, will he be playing alongside an equivalent of LMA and Batum in Howard and Harden to still be as effective as he was in Portland? I doubt it, if anything, I think he will play more selfishly because Howard won't score like LMA and Harden won't defend or run the floor like Batum.

One Love · Post #10 » by **One Love** » Sat May 3, 2014 2:34 pm

I am not trolling but D Coward is very limited... He is a bad passer, has limited moves and isn't a winner... Harden is a Baller... Your team is young and needs time to develop... I thought you guys had that game... I would have hung unto Asik and used your money elsewhere... In today's NBAa center just needs to rebound and protect the rim...

baki · Post #11 » by **baki** » Sat May 3, 2014 2:41 pm

Not trolling at all, you guys had Howard so how did that go? ;-)

I'd agree about Howard, but who is your benchmark for Harden? Because I wouldn't say Kobe, Kobe is far more athletic and a better player altogether. I agree with holding onto Asik in case Howard runs away again but we were expecting Asik to develop under the best big man development coach in the business, McHale :roll:

CraZyPraiZ · Post #12 » by **CraZyPraiZ** » Sat May 3, 2014 3:16 pm

First of all this a is a very good post. Howard played as well as he could and was very good. As a Magic Fan I was actually rooting hard for you guys and have moved on from Dwight. Dwight is what he is. You can all see it. My concern is Harden. This guy is just too damn lazy on defense or he just does not care. I would like to know if he is a team player as I get the feeling that he thinks he is better than everyone. Late in the game right before an inbound, Parsons was speaking to Harden and it seemed like Harden was completely blowing him off. Left a bad taste in my mouth. I am wondering if you guys feel you have enough with Parsons and adding by subtracting Harden or am I reading this guy wrong?

MaxRider · Post #13 » by **MaxRider** » Sat May 3, 2014 3:17 pm

come on only first season they are playing together
it is a big disappointment we didn't advance to 2nd round
this is mainly due to lack of experience coaches and players
hopefully mchale can use twin towers more next season

DirkIsNBA · Post #14 » by **DirkIsNBA** » Sat May 3, 2014 3:54 pm

Not enough players willing to do the dirty work. You need some more guys who accept the less glamorous roles of defending the other team's best offensive player or setting good picks or being an extension of the coach in making teammates totally aware of critical in-game situations. Your roster is full talented guys, but is it the right mix to win a championship?

inquisitive · Post #15 » by **inquisitive** » Sat May 3, 2014 3:55 pm

howard is just fine...this time hakeem is in his backyard as opposed to other years...and he showed why he is the best center this post season. i do think mchale needs to change his system or whatever you call it...or a new coach is needed along with some players that are shooters who can D up. Harden will need to work on his D this summer which i think he will along with losing some weight like mario ellie said.

13th Man · Post #16 » by **13th Man** » Sat May 3, 2014 4:05 pm

inquisitive wrote:howard is just fine...this time hakeem is in his backyard as opposed to other years...and he showed why he is the best center this post season. i do think mchale needs to change his system or whatever you call it...or a new coach is needed along with some players that are shooters who can D up. Harden will need to work on his D this summer which i think he will along with losing some weight like mario ellie said.

I'm pleased with Howard's performance this year and thought that he got progressively better as the season went on. Harden is always potent on offense but his defense has been totally exposed this year. We need a coach that will hold him accountable to moving his feet on D instead of getting blown by and doing the reach around swipe thing that he does. He also needs to guard his man, not just watch the ball while his guy roams free.

MaxRider · Post #17 » by **MaxRider** » Sat May 3, 2014 4:40 pm

problem is perimeter defense
we get blow by so easily then big man inside need to help out and the pf rotate too slow and we gave up offesive rebound too easily
haren need to improve his d
lin need to learn how to fight over screen
beverley need to learn when to pull back
sometime he go over aggressive it is just asking ref to blow the whistle

KungFuJoe · Post #18 » by **KungFuJoe** » Sat May 3, 2014 5:03 pm

Howard is fine....he did what everyone expected him to. He was the ONLY Rocket to show up every game. Not his fault that he tended to get frozen out by Harden going full ISO mode in the 2nd half of several of the games in this series.

The problem is 100% between McHale and Harden.

McHale is just a horrible coach. So bad, I'm not even sure how this guy got a coaching gig in the first place. I think he's mostly just a figurehead...he got the job based on legacy alone. Either way, his time is done here and probably anywhere else.

And Harden...wow...what a cancer. Swap him for someone like Matthews and this team automatically gets a lot better. If they had Afflalo instead of Harden, this team is a contender.

But this team could be the '95 Bulls and wouldn't have won a chip if McHale was the head coach.

YoungMoney23 · Post #19 » by **YoungMoney23** » Sat May 3, 2014 5:19 pm

Quit blaming Dwight, we would have been swept if it weren't for him...

YoungMoney23 · Post #20 » by **YoungMoney23** » Sat May 3, 2014 5:23 pm

baki wrote:So we have a center who is done with developing any new moves despite being in the league for 10 years, and we have a shooting guard that's afraid to defend, run or create moves other than 3 pointers and layups.

Seriously what kind of coach or solution do you know that can turn Howard into half as good as Shaq offensively and Harden into something useful like Pippen? Because these guys right now are not off the shelf solutions for any team at the moment.

We would have been swept if it weren't for Dwight... With the nba as soft as it is today, Shaq would have been called for so many offensive fouls you would lucky to stay on the floor for 10 minutes...