Isaiah Hartenstein

UcanUwill · Post #1 » by **UcanUwill** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:47 pm

I see a lot of cluch fans are really unhappy with this pick. A white Euro with back problems, that shoots 3s and is represented by B.J. Armstrong? Yeah, I see.

First I little bit context on me. Donatas Motiejunas is probably my least favorite Euro player of all time. Ok? Alright?

I really like this pick tho. I agree that Isaiah shares some similarities with Motiejunas, but I think the potential is there to be something special. First of all, first time hearing he has back problems. Not saying its bull, but he had zero injury problems in the past at least for what I know.
Guy is not a sure thing, very boom or bust pick, played for Euroleague team this past season, played is being generous, warmed the bench the whole time. Had his moments in Lithuanian domestic league, but often looked lost, fouling too much and just looking unready. That said, I dont think you can find a player in the middle of second round, with more upside than this guy. Showed flashes of brilliance in limited playing time, very versatile player who can do almost everything, but nothing particularly well at this point. But he just turned 19, one of the youngest players in draft, project. Guy can shoot from anywhere, has great footwork, very good passer and is 7'1. Can be a little bit soft on offense, which is my main gripe. Plays power forward position, but I am certain that he is future center for sure, when he adds needed weight and strength. His defense is very underrated part of his game. I love watching him on defense, since he is very active, covers ton of ground and his footwork on defense is rather amazing. Can easily switch and contain guards, at least Euro guards for a little bit. I think he has major potential as the defender, although not the most athletic bigman, but he has that Marc Gasol vibe. Good instincts on both ends, mobile for his height, star potential, what else do you need from a second rounder?

Floor - Donatas Motiejunas
Ceiling - Marc Gasol

BillyKingGM · Post #2 » by **BillyKingGM** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:50 pm

Agreed

MaxRider · Post #3 » by **MaxRider** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:21 pm

Yup. 7-footer left-handed European represent by BJ Armstrong. That is not a good sign.

K_chile22 · Post #4 » by **K_chile22** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:00 pm

First off, I agree with most of your post, he can very well never play an NBA minute because he just ends up not good enough, but he had the most upside available by far, and since the middle of the second round rarely turns out NBA players anyways, might as well risk it.

He doesn't remind me of Dmo at all, outside of his stature, plays hunched over like Dmo and both similar size. He does, however, have a positive wingspan. Dmo was 7 foot with a 6'11 wingspac, Hartenstien is 7' with a 7'1 wingspan.

Hartenstien seems like a MUCH better athlete in open space, mucg more fluid, has nicer, smoother, form on his shot (though it doesn't really go in yet) and can rebound/rim protect well enough to actually play 5 defensively, where as Dmo was a 5 on offense and a 4 on defense.

He doesn't have Dmo's passing or touch in the post/around the rim, but actually being a lob target who will dunk in the half court helps

To be honest I'm more excited about Cam Oliver. Loved him going into the draft and the Rockets were able to sign him as he went undrafted

Also Hartenstien is actually half black and from Oregon, so not really a white Euro lol

texasholdem · Post #5 » by **texasholdem** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:06 pm

We should have taken D.Dotson who was taken 44th by knicks. He was a great three point shooter at UH and a local product from Yates. Hopefully we don't regret it like we did with Jonathan Simmons.

K_chile22 · Post #6 » by **K_chile22** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:41 pm

Kevin Pelton had Hartenstien ranked 12th in this draft in his statistical projections.

His projections have nailed European bigs recently, having Capela, Jokic, and Nurkic much higher than their concencus rankings going into the draft.

K_chile22 · Post #7 » by **K_chile22** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:34 pm

texasholdem wrote:We should have taken D.Dotson who was taken 44th by knicks. He was a great three point shooter at UH and a local product from Yates. Hopefully we don't regret it like we did with Jonathan Simmons.

Draft Express had him going undrafted through the entire process. 44 was a hell of a reach for him

texasholdem · Post #8 » by **texasholdem** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:07 am

K_chile22 wrote:
texasholdem wrote:We should have taken D.Dotson who was taken 44th by knicks. He was a great three point shooter at UH and a local product from Yates. Hopefully we don't regret it like we did with Jonathan Simmons.

Draft Express had him going undrafted through the entire process. 44 was a hell of a reach for him

Draft express also had Isaiah Thomas going 54, 49, 52, 53 and finally 55. Of course he went 60th. So lowly ranked players can be Mvp candidates.

On the rockets, kyle wiltjer, troy Williams, isaiah Taylor were all going 60th or undrafted. Pat bev was projected 46th.

And can you really say 44 is a reach? At that point it usually doesn't even matter. There are probably more undrafted free agents who succeeded than players taken 44 to 60.

K_chile22 · Post #9 » by **K_chile22** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:05 am

texasholdem wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:
texasholdem wrote:We should have taken D.Dotson who was taken 44th by knicks. He was a great three point shooter at UH and a local product from Yates. Hopefully we don't regret it like we did with Jonathan Simmons.

Draft Express had him going undrafted through the entire process. 44 was a hell of a reach for him

Draft express also had Isaiah Thomas going 54, 49, 52, 53 and finally 55. Of course he went 60th. So lowly ranked players can be Mvp candidates.

On the rockets, kyle wiltjer, troy Williams, isaiah Taylor were all going 60th or undrafted. Pat bev was projected 46th.

And can you really say 44 is a reach? At that point it usually doesn't even matter. There are probably more undrafted free agents who succeeded than players taken 44 to 60.

Using rare exceptions to the norm does no prove a point.

I can also nearly guarantee you Taylor and Wiltjer will be waived and probably won't find new teams

I also promise you that last part isn't true

Black-Jack · Post #10 » by **Black-Jack** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:04 am

K_chile22 wrote:Kevin Pelton had Hartenstien ranked 12th in this draft in his statistical projections.

His projections have nailed European bigs recently, having Capela, Jokic, and Nurkic much higher than their concencus rankings going into the draft.

If is back problems are really nothing to worry about (as he said), Hartenstein could become a steal.
His career so far is not what you expect from a top prospect, warming the bench in Germany's first division, grabbing some minutes in German third division and finally garbage time in Lituania. Nothing special.
But is year on year development is quite impressive. From dominating the kids in youth leagues he came back after the summer with a men's basketball ready body and skill set.

His biggest problem is his bad decision making. He need playing routine, needs to find the best decisions on the court. If Kaunas/Rockets can teach him that, he can be a very good player. He's fast, agile and has range - everything you need as a nowadays big.

UcanUwill · Post #11 » by **UcanUwill** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:36 am

Black-Jack wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Kevin Pelton had Hartenstien ranked 12th in this draft in his statistical projections.

His projections have nailed European bigs recently, having Capela, Jokic, and Nurkic much higher than their concencus rankings going into the draft.

If is back problems are really nothing to worry about (as he said), Hartenstein could become a steal.
His career so far is not what you expect from a top prospect, warming the bench in Germany's first division, grabbing some minutes in German third division and finally garbage time in Lituania. Nothing special.
But is year on year development is quite impressive. From dominating the kids in youth leagues he came back after the summer with a men's basketball ready body and skill set.

His biggest problem is his bad decision making. He need playing routine, needs to find the best decisions on the court. If Kaunas/Rockets can teach him that, he can be a very good player. He's fast, agile and has range - everything you need as a nowadays big.

I honestly probably like him more than Markannen who was drafted 7th. I think Rockets got an absolute steal. In junior tournaments he showed a lot of skills, I wouldn't worry about him not getting minutes in Lithuania, because he was on a good Euroleague team that has one of the best veteral PFs in Europe in their rotation. Put most college stars on that team, and they would warm the bench also probably.

Joel Embust · Post #12 » by **Joel Embust** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:23 pm

K_chile22 wrote:Also Hartenstien is actually half black and from Oregon, so not really a white Euro lol

I thought his father was half black.

EuropeanBball · Post #13 » by **EuropeanBball** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:14 pm

Probably best solution, he will not have big minutes anywhere (anywhere - in at least solid club) in Europe and Rockets will have him under eye if he sign with Rockets affiliate in G League.

Read on Twitter

Post #14 » by **Mr. E** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:56 pm

Interesting move. I like it.

But I guess that this counts against the cap?

UcanUwill · Post #15 » by **UcanUwill** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:04 pm

Mr. E wrote:Interesting move. I like it.

But I guess that this counts against the cap?

I am not sure. Sources says that he is still under contract with Zalgiris. Zalgiris expected him to leave, but when he didn't get NBA contract wich both sides expected, Zalgiris decided to put him on a loan. Maybe they loaned him straight to gatorade league? That does sound plausible, I havent heard anything of Rockets buying him out from Zalgiris.

MaxRider · Post #16 » by **MaxRider** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:29 pm

Mr. E wrote:Interesting move. I like it.

But I guess that this counts against the cap?

Two way contract? How many can we have?

Post #17 » by **Mr. E** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:44 pm

MaxRider wrote:
Mr. E wrote:Interesting move. I like it.

But I guess that this counts against the cap?

Two way contract? How many can we have?

2, I think.

I do not know how those things work. I need to read up on this.

MaxRider · Post #18 » by **MaxRider** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:45 pm

I think team can have two two-way contracts per season. From what I read, two way contracts give the team 16th and 17th players. My guess is two. They can spend maximum 45 days in the NBA. I don't know how they will count against the salary cap. They will make 75k (G League contract) and plus whatever number of days they are in the NBA (based on minimum contract divide by number of days in season, bunches of math stuff here).

EuropeanBball · Post #19 » by **EuropeanBball** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:25 pm

"Players under a two-way contract aren’t counted against the salary cap, and will be restricted free agents after their deal expires."

As i know, Demetrius Jackson is only Houston player on two-way contract so if there is another spot, Hartenstein could be that second choice for two-way contract.

If both spots for two-way contracts are not available, dont know what are possible solutions because i dont know if loans are allowed for G League teams (for example, Zalgiris to loan Hartenstein to RGV Vippers for next season so they can get buyout next season if Hartenstein signs with Houston). I guess this is not allowed.

Zalgiris will not just let him for nothing, they wanna that buyout money for sure.

Post #20 » by **Mr. E** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:31 pm

EuropeanBball wrote:"Players under a two-way contract aren’t counted against the salary cap, and will be restricted free agents after their deal expires."

As i know, Demetrius Jackson is only Houston player on two-way contract so if there is another spot, Hartenstein could be that second choice for two-way contract.

If both spots for two-way contracts are not available, dont know what are possible solutions because i dont know if loans are allowed for G League teams (for example, Zalgiris to loan Hartenstein to RGV Vippers for next season so they can get buyout next season if Hartenstein signs with Houston). I guess this is not allowed.

Zalgiris will not just let him for nothing, they wanna that buyout money for sure.

I haven't heard anything about loans with the G-League; but I'd love to see that sort of system between the NBA and other leagues.