ImageImage

Melodrama

Moderators: ken6199, TMU

User avatar
MaxRider
RealGM
Posts: 44,473
And1: 5,805
Joined: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Choke City
 

Re: Melodrama 

Post#21 » by MaxRider » Tue Aug 1, 2017 5:49 pm

Where are we now? 1746th and 2?
User avatar
Clutch City Relic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 4,132
And1: 53
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Location: Texas
         

Re: Melodrama 

Post#22 » by Clutch City Relic » Tue Aug 1, 2017 6:11 pm

MaxRider wrote:Where are we now? 1746th and 2?


I imagine this will drag out until right before training camp starts. They won't want Melo in camp, but it seems like the Knicks and Morey are standing their ground. So it'll take a de facto deadline to get something done.

I'm putting my money on September 8th as they day he's traded or bought out.
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,578
And1: 404
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Melodrama 

Post#23 » by texasholdem » Tue Aug 1, 2017 7:50 pm

Anyone think Kings could be the third team? Ryan was born and raised in Sacto and went to college about an hour away at Berkeley. They signed Zach Randolph for 2 seasons but it's a reasonable contract and he's 36 already so they might be able to move him to a contending team at the deadline. Skal L. had a decent rookie season in only 33 games but he could probably share the center duties with Cauley-Stein if they move Big George.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6930490

Rockets get: Carmelo Anthony
Knicks get: Kosta Koufas, Garrett Temple, Georgios Papagiannis, Chinanu Onuaku, Shawn Long, Tim Quarterman
Kings get: Ryan Anderson, Rockets 1st round pick

Kings
F: Justin Jackson, Vince Carter
F: Ryan Anderson, Zach Randolph
C: Willie Cauley-Stein, Skal Labisierre, Harry Giles
G: George Hill, D'Aaron Fox
G: Buddy Hield, Bogdan Bogdanovich

Knicks
F: Lance Thomas, Mindaugus Kuzminskas
F: Kristaps Porzingis, Kosta Koufas, Kyle O'Quinn
C: Willy Hernangomez, Georgios Papagiannis, Joakim Noah, Chinanu Onuaku
G: Frank Ntiliknia, Garrett Temple, Chason Randle
G: Tim Hardaway Jr, Courtney Lee, Damyean Dotson
(Long, Quarterman - waived)

Knicks get the 13th overall drafted player in 2016 draft in Papagiannis. He had a bad fall in summer league but it doesn't seem like the injury is as serious as first thought. Koufas and Temple are only cheap $8m salaries and both have player options next summer so they could be expiring deals and/or pieces to be dealt later on. Both are serviceable role players.

Is it a big haul for the Knicks? no. But they get a player taken in last year's lottery who just turned 20 years old, some cap relief and pieces that can be moved later.

Kings get a hometown boy who can shoot , since Cauley Stein and Z-Bo can't shoot from distance.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
User avatar
Clutch City Relic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 4,132
And1: 53
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Location: Texas
         

Re: Melodrama 

Post#24 » by Clutch City Relic » Wed Aug 2, 2017 2:30 pm

texasholdem wrote:Anyone think Kings could be the third team? Ryan was born and raised in Sacto and went to college about an hour away at Berkeley. They signed Zach Randolph for 2 seasons but it's a reasonable contract and he's 36 already so they might be able to move him to a contending team at the deadline. Skal L. had a decent rookie season in only 33 games but he could probably share the center duties with Cauley-Stein if they move Big George.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6930490

Rockets get: Carmelo Anthony
Knicks get: Kosta Koufas, Garrett Temple, Georgios Papagiannis, Chinanu Onuaku, Shawn Long, Tim Quarterman
Kings get: Ryan Anderson, Rockets 1st round pick

Kings
F: Justin Jackson, Vince Carter
F: Ryan Anderson, Zach Randolph
C: Willie Cauley-Stein, Skal Labisierre, Harry Giles
G: George Hill, D'Aaron Fox
G: Buddy Hield, Bogdan Bogdanovich

Knicks
F: Lance Thomas, Mindaugus Kuzminskas
F: Kristaps Porzingis, Kosta Koufas, Kyle O'Quinn
C: Willy Hernangomez, Georgios Papagiannis, Joakim Noah, Chinanu Onuaku
G: Frank Ntiliknia, Garrett Temple, Chason Randle
G: Tim Hardaway Jr, Courtney Lee, Damyean Dotson
(Long, Quarterman - waived)

Knicks get the 13th overall drafted player in 2016 draft in Papagiannis. He had a bad fall in summer league but it doesn't seem like the injury is as serious as first thought. Koufas and Temple are only cheap $8m salaries and both have player options next summer so they could be expiring deals and/or pieces to be dealt later on. Both are serviceable role players.

Is it a big haul for the Knicks? no. But they get a player taken in last year's lottery who just turned 20 years old, some cap relief and pieces that can be moved later.

Kings get a hometown boy who can shoot , since Cauley Stein and Z-Bo can't shoot from distance.


I don't think Sacramento wants to have that much money invested in the PF position (with Z-Bo and Ryno) while they're trying to develop Labissiere. Unless they would play Z-Bo as the backup 5. But even if that was the case, I don't think a single 1st rounder gets them to take on Anderson's deal and give up Papagiannis after only one year.
User avatar
Mr. E
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 18,291
And1: 6,510
Joined: Apr 15, 2006
Location: Defending Planet Earth with a Jet-Pack & a Ray-Gun!
       

Re: Melodrama 

Post#25 » by Mr. E » Wed Aug 2, 2017 9:27 pm

Sacramento is an interesting situation, but I'm also not sure about them as a third team. Perhaps as a fourth team, though.

Woj reported that the deal may not happen until training camp (if it happens), and I think that has been what most have been expecting for a few weeks now. New York needs to decide what they want to do as it seems that Houston, Melo and Melo's Agent are not budging.
"A fanatic is one who can't change their mind and won't change the subject."
- Winston Churchill
Caramel_Anton
Junior
Posts: 259
And1: 97
Joined: Aug 02, 2017

Re: Melodrama 

Post#26 » by Caramel_Anton » Thu Aug 3, 2017 6:55 pm

Mr. E wrote:I'm not sure about the fit with Melo, either; and I'm pretty vocal that I'm OK running with Anderson and the upgraded lineup.

That said, K_chile22 raises a good point. Is this team - while definitely better - going to get past the Warriors? I do think that the additions of Paul, Tucker, M'Bah a Moute and Black to an already cohesive team probably gets the Rockets past the Spurs, but I'm not sure about the Warriors.

The GM of Toronto recently said that their job was to get past Cleveland. I don't like that mentality. Cleveland, while in their conference, is not on top of the hill. The goal for teams should be getting past the Champs. The Rockets, thankfully, are not one of the many NBA teams who have seemed to have shown their bellies and ceded the next few titles to the Warriors. The Rockets are at least approaching the upcoming season with the mentality that they can knock the Champs off of the mountain. In order to do this they may have to take that risk of hoping that Melo is Team USA Melo.

I'm not just speaking as a fan here; but I think that with the turmoil in Cleveland that Houston is the only team in the NBA with a chance of knocking off the Warriors. The Spurs did not get worse, but they did not get better. The Thunder added PG, but they have minimal depth. Boston...I don't know what to make of them if we are being honest. If Morey, Harden & Paul think that the final piece is Carmelo Anthony then I see why they want to go for it.


As a Knicks fan let me tell you two things. I've been pining to get Chris Paul to team up with Carmelo since Melo gutted our roster back in 2011. As a man who has been forced to watch Melo - and admittedly am a fan ultimately - Melo WILL be Team USA Melo on that Rockets lineup. If you need further proof - Just look at 2013 when the Knicks had Kidd running the point. Melo got scoring title & arguably the best season of his career almost taking the Knicks to the ECF if it wasn't for a disastrous showing by the former Mavs Tyson & Kidd against the Pacers.

Melo has always been missing a playmaking facilitator. The reason Olympic Melo is a thing, is because Olympic Melo plays with real playmakers & facilitators, not because he's a patriot. Harden & Paul are hands down without a doubt the best backcourt in the NBA to put behind Carmelo. Period. You all should be praying he ends up on your roster because it will be the only chance you have at taking down the Warriors and you are delusional if you think otherwise. I honestly think that with Melo, OKC & HOU are the only two teams in the entire NBA to have a chance at taking down the Warriors. Of those two teams, Rockets have the best shot. Harden is incredible. AND MELO WANTS TO PLAY THERE. He WANTS to play under COTY MDA. He WANTS to take a secondary role to Harden. And considering the Rockets have arguably the BEST person in the entire NBA to keep Melo in line (CP3 - considering their friendship and Paul's on court demeanor and leadership), the Rockets need to make sure they get their 3rd star.

The other thing I wanted to tell you is that the Knicks are not taking on Anderson's albatross contract. So get used to the idea of trading away more than Anderson and a 1st round pick, because that 1st round pick is the MINIMUM it will take to dump Anderson. You don't get Melo for free. There are ways to do this without giving up Ariza & Gordon (players I agree that you would need in order to take down GSW and in turn would make a trade for Melo pointless if you're giving up other major assets to your push). Warm up to the idea that you are giving away multiple firsts and/or possibly some young talent you may want to keep.

Just as a Melo fan, I'd love to see him play with the Rockets and take down the GSW. With the addition to Paul, Rocket's would be my new favorite West Coast team to watch & root for. That being said - I'd be willing to give up more than most people on this board are claiming they are willing to give for Carmelo. You are seriously undervaluing him. He's 32 - not 36.
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,578
And1: 404
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Melodrama 

Post#27 » by texasholdem » Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:13 pm

Caramel_Anton wrote:
Mr. E wrote:I'm not sure about the fit with Melo, either; and I'm pretty vocal that I'm OK running with Anderson and the upgraded lineup.

That said, K_chile22 raises a good point. Is this team - while definitely better - going to get past the Warriors? I do think that the additions of Paul, Tucker, M'Bah a Moute and Black to an already cohesive team probably gets the Rockets past the Spurs, but I'm not sure about the Warriors.

The GM of Toronto recently said that their job was to get past Cleveland. I don't like that mentality. Cleveland, while in their conference, is not on top of the hill. The goal for teams should be getting past the Champs. The Rockets, thankfully, are not one of the many NBA teams who have seemed to have shown their bellies and ceded the next few titles to the Warriors. The Rockets are at least approaching the upcoming season with the mentality that they can knock the Champs off of the mountain. In order to do this they may have to take that risk of hoping that Melo is Team USA Melo.

I'm not just speaking as a fan here; but I think that with the turmoil in Cleveland that Houston is the only team in the NBA with a chance of knocking off the Warriors. The Spurs did not get worse, but they did not get better. The Thunder added PG, but they have minimal depth. Boston...I don't know what to make of them if we are being honest. If Morey, Harden & Paul think that the final piece is Carmelo Anthony then I see why they want to go for it.


As a Knicks fan let me tell you two things. I've been pining to get Chris Paul to team up with Carmelo since Melo gutted our roster back in 2011. As a man who has been forced to watch Melo - and admittedly am a fan ultimately - Melo WILL be Team USA Melo on that Rockets lineup. If you need further proof - Just look at 2013 when the Knicks had Kidd running the point. Melo got scoring title & arguably the best season of his career almost taking the Knicks to the ECF if it wasn't for a disastrous showing by the former Mavs Tyson & Kidd against the Pacers.

Melo has always been missing a playmaking facilitator. The reason Olympic Melo is a thing, is because Olympic Melo plays with real playmakers & facilitators, not because he's a patriot. Harden & Paul are hands down without a doubt the best backcourt in the NBA to put behind Carmelo. Period. You all should be praying he ends up on your roster because it will be the only chance you have at taking down the Warriors and you are delusional if you think otherwise. I honestly think that with Melo, OKC & HOU are the only two teams in the entire NBA to have a chance at taking down the Warriors. Of those two teams, Rockets have the best shot. Harden is incredible. AND MELO WANTS TO PLAY THERE. He WANTS to play under COTY MDA. He WANTS to take a secondary role to Harden. And considering the Rockets have arguably the BEST person in the entire NBA to keep Melo in line (CP3 - considering their friendship and Paul's on court demeanor and leadership), the Rockets need to make sure they get their 3rd star.

The other thing I wanted to tell you is that the Knicks are not taking on Anderson's albatross contract. So get used to the idea of trading away more than Anderson and a 1st round pick, because that 1st round pick is the MINIMUM it will take to dump Anderson. You don't get Melo for free. There are ways to do this without giving up Ariza & Gordon (players I agree that you would need in order to take down GSW and in turn would make a trade for Melo pointless if you're giving up other major assets to your push). Warm up to the idea that you are giving away multiple firsts and/or possibly some young talent you may want to keep.

Just as a Melo fan, I'd love to see him play with the Rockets and take down the GSW. With the addition to Paul, Rocket's would be my new favorite West Coast team to watch & root for. That being said - I'd be willing to give up more than most people on this board are claiming they are willing to give for Carmelo. You are seriously undervaluing him. He's 32 - not 36.


Capela is the only young talent that's untouchable. Actually he's really the only young talent they have left with Dekker gone. Ryan and a first are what's on the table. Don't expect to get even as much as Indiana or Chicago got for PG or JB.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
Caramel_Anton
Junior
Posts: 259
And1: 97
Joined: Aug 02, 2017

Re: Melodrama 

Post#28 » by Caramel_Anton » Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:48 pm

texasholdem wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:
Mr. E wrote:I'm not sure about the fit with Melo, either; and I'm pretty vocal that I'm OK running with Anderson and the upgraded lineup.

That said, K_chile22 raises a good point. Is this team - while definitely better - going to get past the Warriors? I do think that the additions of Paul, Tucker, M'Bah a Moute and Black to an already cohesive team probably gets the Rockets past the Spurs, but I'm not sure about the Warriors.

The GM of Toronto recently said that their job was to get past Cleveland. I don't like that mentality. Cleveland, while in their conference, is not on top of the hill. The goal for teams should be getting past the Champs. The Rockets, thankfully, are not one of the many NBA teams who have seemed to have shown their bellies and ceded the next few titles to the Warriors. The Rockets are at least approaching the upcoming season with the mentality that they can knock the Champs off of the mountain. In order to do this they may have to take that risk of hoping that Melo is Team USA Melo.

I'm not just speaking as a fan here; but I think that with the turmoil in Cleveland that Houston is the only team in the NBA with a chance of knocking off the Warriors. The Spurs did not get worse, but they did not get better. The Thunder added PG, but they have minimal depth. Boston...I don't know what to make of them if we are being honest. If Morey, Harden & Paul think that the final piece is Carmelo Anthony then I see why they want to go for it.


As a Knicks fan let me tell you two things. I've been pining to get Chris Paul to team up with Carmelo since Melo gutted our roster back in 2011. As a man who has been forced to watch Melo - and admittedly am a fan ultimately - Melo WILL be Team USA Melo on that Rockets lineup. If you need further proof - Just look at 2013 when the Knicks had Kidd running the point. Melo got scoring title & arguably the best season of his career almost taking the Knicks to the ECF if it wasn't for a disastrous showing by the former Mavs Tyson & Kidd against the Pacers.

Melo has always been missing a playmaking facilitator. The reason Olympic Melo is a thing, is because Olympic Melo plays with real playmakers & facilitators, not because he's a patriot. Harden & Paul are hands down without a doubt the best backcourt in the NBA to put behind Carmelo. Period. You all should be praying he ends up on your roster because it will be the only chance you have at taking down the Warriors and you are delusional if you think otherwise. I honestly think that with Melo, OKC & HOU are the only two teams in the entire NBA to have a chance at taking down the Warriors. Of those two teams, Rockets have the best shot. Harden is incredible. AND MELO WANTS TO PLAY THERE. He WANTS to play under COTY MDA. He WANTS to take a secondary role to Harden. And considering the Rockets have arguably the BEST person in the entire NBA to keep Melo in line (CP3 - considering their friendship and Paul's on court demeanor and leadership), the Rockets need to make sure they get their 3rd star.

The other thing I wanted to tell you is that the Knicks are not taking on Anderson's albatross contract. So get used to the idea of trading away more than Anderson and a 1st round pick, because that 1st round pick is the MINIMUM it will take to dump Anderson. You don't get Melo for free. There are ways to do this without giving up Ariza & Gordon (players I agree that you would need in order to take down GSW and in turn would make a trade for Melo pointless if you're giving up other major assets to your push). Warm up to the idea that you are giving away multiple firsts and/or possibly some young talent you may want to keep.

Just as a Melo fan, I'd love to see him play with the Rockets and take down the GSW. With the addition to Paul, Rocket's would be my new favorite West Coast team to watch & root for. That being said - I'd be willing to give up more than most people on this board are claiming they are willing to give for Carmelo. You are seriously undervaluing him. He's 32 - not 36.


Capela is the only young talent that's untouchable. Actually he's really the only young talent they have left with Dekker gone. Ryan and a first are what's on the table. Don't expect to get even as much as Indiana or Chicago got for PG or JB.


You have Hartenstein, Zhou, Onuaku.. Those are talented prospects that don't affect your current title push.

Look, if you want to stick with that mentality of Anderson and a 1st - we are going to continue to hold Melo. That is an unreasonable offer. If Anderson's contract was neutral, then it's a different story. It's a terrible contract.

Morey can change his tune or watch the Rockets have another early playoff exit. Melo on the Knicks makes no difference, for one year, for two. KP6 loves Melo. Melo doesn't even affect our tank, the Knicks have no issues keeping him as has been made clear or at least it should be clear by now.

This isn't Indy or Chicago bud, Melo is the last remaining game changer that can be snagged up. You can continue to be unreasonable if you really think you are overpaying, it might work out eventually for Harden and the Rockets in like 4 years or so.
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,578
And1: 404
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Melodrama 

Post#29 » by texasholdem » Thu Aug 3, 2017 8:33 pm

Caramel_Anton wrote:
texasholdem wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:
As a Knicks fan let me tell you two things. I've been pining to get Chris Paul to team up with Carmelo since Melo gutted our roster back in 2011. As a man who has been forced to watch Melo - and admittedly am a fan ultimately - Melo WILL be Team USA Melo on that Rockets lineup. If you need further proof - Just look at 2013 when the Knicks had Kidd running the point. Melo got scoring title & arguably the best season of his career almost taking the Knicks to the ECF if it wasn't for a disastrous showing by the former Mavs Tyson & Kidd against the Pacers.

Melo has always been missing a playmaking facilitator. The reason Olympic Melo is a thing, is because Olympic Melo plays with real playmakers & facilitators, not because he's a patriot. Harden & Paul are hands down without a doubt the best backcourt in the NBA to put behind Carmelo. Period. You all should be praying he ends up on your roster because it will be the only chance you have at taking down the Warriors and you are delusional if you think otherwise. I honestly think that with Melo, OKC & HOU are the only two teams in the entire NBA to have a chance at taking down the Warriors. Of those two teams, Rockets have the best shot. Harden is incredible. AND MELO WANTS TO PLAY THERE. He WANTS to play under COTY MDA. He WANTS to take a secondary role to Harden. And considering the Rockets have arguably the BEST person in the entire NBA to keep Melo in line (CP3 - considering their friendship and Paul's on court demeanor and leadership), the Rockets need to make sure they get their 3rd star.

The other thing I wanted to tell you is that the Knicks are not taking on Anderson's albatross contract. So get used to the idea of trading away more than Anderson and a 1st round pick, because that 1st round pick is the MINIMUM it will take to dump Anderson. You don't get Melo for free. There are ways to do this without giving up Ariza & Gordon (players I agree that you would need in order to take down GSW and in turn would make a trade for Melo pointless if you're giving up other major assets to your push). Warm up to the idea that you are giving away multiple firsts and/or possibly some young talent you may want to keep.

Just as a Melo fan, I'd love to see him play with the Rockets and take down the GSW. With the addition to Paul, Rocket's would be my new favorite West Coast team to watch & root for. That being said - I'd be willing to give up more than most people on this board are claiming they are willing to give for Carmelo. You are seriously undervaluing him. He's 32 - not 36.


Capela is the only young talent that's untouchable. Actually he's really the only young talent they have left with Dekker gone. Ryan and a first are what's on the table. Don't expect to get even as much as Indiana or Chicago got for PG or JB.


You have Hartenstein, Zhou, Onuaku.. Those are talented prospects that don't affect your current title push.

Look, if you want to stick with that mentality of Anderson and a 1st - we are going to continue to hold Melo. That is an unreasonable offer. If Anderson's contract was neutral, then it's a different story. It's a terrible contract.

Morey can change his tune or watch the Rockets have another early playoff exit. Melo on the Knicks makes no difference, for one year, for two. KP6 loves Melo. Melo doesn't even affect our tank, the Knicks have no issues keeping him as has been made clear or at least it should be clear by now.

This isn't Indy or Chicago bud, Melo is the last remaining game changer that can be snagged up. You can continue to be unreasonable if you really think you are overpaying, it might work out eventually for Harden and the Rockets in like 4 years or so.


You can have Zhou, hartenstein and onuaku. I don't consider them young talents but young prospects since they were all second rounders who haven't played at all or very few minutes in the NBA.

I'm sick of the whole situation and just want it ended either way frankly. If you want to keep Melo by all means do so.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
Caramel_Anton
Junior
Posts: 259
And1: 97
Joined: Aug 02, 2017

Re: Melodrama 

Post#30 » by Caramel_Anton » Thu Aug 3, 2017 8:59 pm

I'd rather see him compete on the Rockets. As it stands, GSW is basically guaranteed to win again next year. I'd rather Melo to the Rockets cause it makes things interesting. Just not at the expense of MY TEAM. So, I hope yall figure out your priorities and present a fair offer. I'd take on Anderson for your 2020 unprotected and 2022 lotto protected or if you want to throw in stronger protections on it then throw in Zhou or Onuaku.

If yall win a title, you can resign Melo & CP3 and still bring on Lebron next year. You can probably still bring him on even if you don't win, as long as you have some bananas on the squad. You'll just be buried in luxury tax but hey, look at Golden State.
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,578
And1: 404
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Melodrama 

Post#31 » by texasholdem » Thu Aug 3, 2017 9:37 pm

:oops:
Caramel_Anton wrote:I'd rather see him compete on the Rockets. As it stands, GSW is basically guaranteed to win again next year. I'd rather Melo to the Rockets cause it makes things interesting. Just not at the expense of MY TEAM. So, I hope yall figure out your priorities and present a fair offer. I'd take on Anderson for your 2020 unprotected and 2022 lotto protected or if you want to throw in stronger protections on it then throw in Zhou or Onuaku.

If yall win a title, you can resign Melo & CP3 and still bring on Lebron next year. You can probably still bring him on even if you don't win, as long as you have some bananas on the squad. You'll just be buried in luxury tax but hey, look at Golden State.


I included onuaku in my trade proposal in this thread with sac as the third team where Anderson goes to kings. I don't think Morey is gonna give up two firsts but you never know with him.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
Caramel_Anton
Junior
Posts: 259
And1: 97
Joined: Aug 02, 2017

Re: Melodrama 

Post#32 » by Caramel_Anton » Thu Aug 3, 2017 10:36 pm

texasholdem wrote::oops:
Caramel_Anton wrote:I'd rather see him compete on the Rockets. As it stands, GSW is basically guaranteed to win again next year. I'd rather Melo to the Rockets cause it makes things interesting. Just not at the expense of MY TEAM. So, I hope yall figure out your priorities and present a fair offer. I'd take on Anderson for your 2020 unprotected and 2022 lotto protected or if you want to throw in stronger protections on it then throw in Zhou or Onuaku.

If yall win a title, you can resign Melo & CP3 and still bring on Lebron next year. You can probably still bring him on even if you don't win, as long as you have some bananas on the squad. You'll just be buried in luxury tax but hey, look at Golden State.


I included onuaku in my trade proposal in this thread with sac as the third team where Anderson goes to kings. I don't think Morey is gonna give up two firsts but you never know with him.


It's a matter of whether or not he should though. That's why I posted on here. Cause he should. Rockets fans that are saying "Anderson & a 1st they can take it or leave it" are severely misguided. Ya'll need to be a bit more hungry for Carmelo. He's still a beast. I don't see a reason to be excited about a season that won't result in a title or an MVP. Since CP3 is definitely gonna step on Harden's MVP run while Kawhi and Lebron look poised to make a huge run at it.
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,578
And1: 404
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Melodrama 

Post#33 » by texasholdem » Thu Aug 3, 2017 11:00 pm

Caramel_Anton wrote:
texasholdem wrote::oops:
Caramel_Anton wrote:I'd rather see him compete on the Rockets. As it stands, GSW is basically guaranteed to win again next year. I'd rather Melo to the Rockets cause it makes things interesting. Just not at the expense of MY TEAM. So, I hope yall figure out your priorities and present a fair offer. I'd take on Anderson for your 2020 unprotected and 2022 lotto protected or if you want to throw in stronger protections on it then throw in Zhou or Onuaku.

If yall win a title, you can resign Melo & CP3 and still bring on Lebron next year. You can probably still bring him on even if you don't win, as long as you have some bananas on the squad. You'll just be buried in luxury tax but hey, look at Golden State.


I included onuaku in my trade proposal in this thread with sac as the third team where Anderson goes to kings. I don't think Morey is gonna give up two firsts but you never know with him.


It's a matter of whether or not he should though. That's why I posted on here. Cause he should. Rockets fans that are saying "Anderson & a 1st they can take it or leave it" are severely misguided. Ya'll need to be a bit more hungry for Carmelo. He's still a beast. I don't see a reason to be excited about a season that won't result in a title or an MVP. Since CP3 is definitely gonna step on Harden's MVP run while Kawhi and Lebron look poised to make a huge run at it.


This is like the 3rd time Morey has tried to bring Carmelo here so we're all a bit burned out on it. We thought Dwight would work out with Harden but he didn't so we don't know if adding two stars with him will even work. Agree with you though that the Rockets need to at least reach the conference finals to have a successful season (with Paul's history I'm skeptical of that happening)
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
User avatar
Mr. E
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 18,291
And1: 6,510
Joined: Apr 15, 2006
Location: Defending Planet Earth with a Jet-Pack & a Ray-Gun!
       

Re: Melodrama 

Post#34 » by Mr. E » Fri Aug 4, 2017 2:25 pm

Caramel_Anton wrote:As a Knicks fan let me tell you two things. I've been pining to get Chris Paul to team up with Carmelo since Melo gutted our roster back in 2011. As a man who has been forced to watch Melo - and admittedly am a fan ultimately - Melo WILL be Team USA Melo on that Rockets lineup. If you need further proof - Just look at 2013 when the Knicks had Kidd running the point. Melo got scoring title & arguably the best season of his career almost taking the Knicks to the ECF if it wasn't for a disastrous showing by the former Mavs Tyson & Kidd against the Pacers.

Melo has always been missing a playmaking facilitator. The reason Olympic Melo is a thing, is because Olympic Melo plays with real playmakers & facilitators, not because he's a patriot. Harden & Paul are hands down without a doubt the best backcourt in the NBA to put behind Carmelo. Period. You all should be praying he ends up on your roster because it will be the only chance you have at taking down the Warriors and you are delusional if you think otherwise. I honestly think that with Melo, OKC & HOU are the only two teams in the entire NBA to have a chance at taking down the Warriors. Of those two teams, Rockets have the best shot. Harden is incredible. AND MELO WANTS TO PLAY THERE. He WANTS to play under COTY MDA. He WANTS to take a secondary role to Harden. And considering the Rockets have arguably the BEST person in the entire NBA to keep Melo in line (CP3 - considering their friendship and Paul's on court demeanor and leadership), the Rockets need to make sure they get their 3rd star.

The other thing I wanted to tell you is that the Knicks are not taking on Anderson's albatross contract. So get used to the idea of trading away more than Anderson and a 1st round pick, because that 1st round pick is the MINIMUM it will take to dump Anderson. You don't get Melo for free. There are ways to do this without giving up Ariza & Gordon (players I agree that you would need in order to take down GSW and in turn would make a trade for Melo pointless if you're giving up other major assets to your push). Warm up to the idea that you are giving away multiple firsts and/or possibly some young talent you may want to keep.

Just as a Melo fan, I'd love to see him play with the Rockets and take down the GSW. With the addition to Paul, Rocket's would be my new favorite West Coast team to watch & root for. That being said - I'd be willing to give up more than most people on this board are claiming they are willing to give for Carmelo. You are seriously undervaluing him. He's 32 - not 36.


Thank you for your opinion, but I believe that you are fooling yourself through blind hope if you think that the Knicks will get back multiple first round picks for Carmelo Anthony at this point. I've seen some thoughts coming from the Knicks camp and it appears that many think that Melo - despite the fact that the Knicks organization has gone out of their way to hurt his vaule - think that a return close to what the team gave up for him is coming. That just isn't happening.

The Rockets are not bidding against anyone. If a first is sent out (and I think that it will be) then it will not go to the Knicks, but rather to a third or fourth team in a deal to make this happen.

Melo does not have to expand his NTC waiver list and he does not have to try to hurt the team that he is going to...but that said, NYC does not have to trade him. Right now it appears that the options are whatever deal Houston may put together with multiple teams or to keep Melo on the roster and hope that it is not a distraction.

New York's biggest concern that I see right now is that if they keep Melo then they are going back on their pledge to him that he would be traded to the Rockets. I know that there is new leadership; but the promise from the organization was made and I think that we all know that it does not matter who the GM of the Knicks is, it all comes down to James Dolan. Will Anthony and his agent be OK working for James Dolan for the next two seasons as the end of his career is spent on a team that is not challenging for the playoffs?

As for the Rockets young talent: I can see Hartenstein, Taylor or Onuaku moved. Anyone who thinks that Zhou would be moved just has not been paying attention to the Houston Rockets for the past 17 years.

I still think that the Rockets outgoing package (if it happens) will be Anderson, Onuaku, NGC's and the rights to a foreign player while the Knicks incoming will be a good player from a third team, NGC's and the rights to a foreign player.

What hurt the Knicks the most here (other than their own actions) seems to be the ongoing issues with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Because of their apparent implosion that took away the only chance the Knicks had at somewhat of a bidding war between the only two trade partners that were ever realistic for a guy who can veto any trade. I do not think that the Knicks would get a better deal from Cleveland; and I do not think that the Cleveland front office would be able to put together a multi-team deal the way that Houston could that would benefit NYC.

I am not taking this opinion in a gloating sort of way. I personally do not think that this trade is going to happen (at least not until training camp at the earliest), and I do not envy the Knicks in this situation. I think that their best course of action is to make the deal if the return is right; but if they do not then they've got to go into damage control with Melo's agent with eyes on future transactions.

I seriously doubt that we see another NTC like this given out for a long time. It is almost shocking just how much one power one player can yield in a situation where a franchise is at a crossroads.
"A fanatic is one who can't change their mind and won't change the subject."
- Winston Churchill
Caramel_Anton
Junior
Posts: 259
And1: 97
Joined: Aug 02, 2017

Re: Melodrama 

Post#35 » by Caramel_Anton » Fri Aug 4, 2017 2:42 pm

Mr. E wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:As a Knicks fan let me tell you two things. I've been pining to get Chris Paul to team up with Carmelo since Melo gutted our roster back in 2011. As a man who has been forced to watch Melo - and admittedly am a fan ultimately - Melo WILL be Team USA Melo on that Rockets lineup. If you need further proof - Just look at 2013 when the Knicks had Kidd running the point. Melo got scoring title & arguably the best season of his career almost taking the Knicks to the ECF if it wasn't for a disastrous showing by the former Mavs Tyson & Kidd against the Pacers.

Melo has always been missing a playmaking facilitator. The reason Olympic Melo is a thing, is because Olympic Melo plays with real playmakers & facilitators, not because he's a patriot. Harden & Paul are hands down without a doubt the best backcourt in the NBA to put behind Carmelo. Period. You all should be praying he ends up on your roster because it will be the only chance you have at taking down the Warriors and you are delusional if you think otherwise. I honestly think that with Melo, OKC & HOU are the only two teams in the entire NBA to have a chance at taking down the Warriors. Of those two teams, Rockets have the best shot. Harden is incredible. AND MELO WANTS TO PLAY THERE. He WANTS to play under COTY MDA. He WANTS to take a secondary role to Harden. And considering the Rockets have arguably the BEST person in the entire NBA to keep Melo in line (CP3 - considering their friendship and Paul's on court demeanor and leadership), the Rockets need to make sure they get their 3rd star.

The other thing I wanted to tell you is that the Knicks are not taking on Anderson's albatross contract. So get used to the idea of trading away more than Anderson and a 1st round pick, because that 1st round pick is the MINIMUM it will take to dump Anderson. You don't get Melo for free. There are ways to do this without giving up Ariza & Gordon (players I agree that you would need in order to take down GSW and in turn would make a trade for Melo pointless if you're giving up other major assets to your push). Warm up to the idea that you are giving away multiple firsts and/or possibly some young talent you may want to keep.

Just as a Melo fan, I'd love to see him play with the Rockets and take down the GSW. With the addition to Paul, Rocket's would be my new favorite West Coast team to watch & root for. That being said - I'd be willing to give up more than most people on this board are claiming they are willing to give for Carmelo. You are seriously undervaluing him. He's 32 - not 36.


Thank you for your opinion, but I believe that you are fooling yourself through blind hope if you think that the Knicks will get back multiple first round picks for Carmelo Anthony at this point. I've seen some thoughts coming from the Knicks camp and it appears that many think that Melo - despite the fact that the Knicks organization has gone out of their way to hurt his vaule - think that a return close to what the team gave up for him is coming. That just isn't happening.

The Rockets are not bidding against anyone. If a first is sent out (and I think that it will be) then it will not go to the Knicks, but rather to a third or fourth team in a deal to make this happen.

Melo does not have to expand his NTC waiver list and he does not have to try to hurt the team that he is going to...but that said, NYC does not have to trade him. Right now it appears that the options are whatever deal Houston may put together with multiple teams or to keep Melo on the roster and hope that it is not a distraction.

New York's biggest concern that I see right now is that if they keep Melo then they are going back on their pledge to him that he would be traded to the Rockets. I know that there is new leadership; but the promise from the organization was made and I think that we all know that it does not matter who the GM of the Knicks is, it all comes down to James Dolan. Will Anthony and his agent be OK working for James Dolan for the next two seasons as the end of his career is spent on a team that is not challenging for the playoffs?

As for the Rockets young talent: I can see Hartenstein, Taylor or Onuaku moved. Anyone who thinks that Zhou would be moved just has not been paying attention to the Houston Rockets for the past 17 years.

I still think that the Rockets outgoing package (if it happens) will be Anderson, Onuaku, NGC's and the rights to a foreign player while the Knicks incoming will be a good player from a third team, NGC's and the rights to a foreign player.

What hurt the Knicks the most here (other than their own actions) seems to be the ongoing issues with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Because of their apparent implosion that took away the only chance the Knicks had at somewhat of a bidding war between the only two trade partners that were ever realistic for a guy who can veto any trade. I do not think that the Knicks would get a better deal from Cleveland; and I do not think that the Cleveland front office would be able to put together a multi-team deal the way that Houston could that would benefit NYC.

I am not taking this opinion in a gloating sort of way. I personally do not think that this trade is going to happen (at least not until training camp at the earliest), and I do not envy the Knicks in this situation. I think that their best course of action is to make the deal if the return is right; but if they do not then they've got to go into damage control with Melo's agent with eyes on future transactions.

I seriously doubt that we see another NTC like this given out for a long time. It is almost shocking just how much one power one player can yield in a situation where a franchise is at a crossroads.


The way I look at it is like this: If you guys wanted to dump Ryan Anderson just on your own - you'd be giving up at least 1 pick or taking back a smaller bad contract in return for Anderson being a fit someplace (like Leonard from POR). Since the Rockets can't take on any additional contracts in a Melo trade, then you have to think.

Somehow, the Rockets need to dump Ryno, keep Ariza & Gordon yet incentivize a third team to sweeten the pot for Melo all while giving up just one 1st round pick and possibly NGC's & Hartenstein/Onuaku.

I don't expect a King's Ransom by any stretch of the imagination for Carmelo. I do expect what equates to at least one 1st rounder and cap relief for future seasons. Which means, no bad contracts in return. I was saying, if you want to dump Ryno on the Knicks then it's going to cost multiple picks. A trade I don't see happening from the Rockets end. Which ultimately is why I don't see a trade happening either.

My point coming on here though, was to remind you all that you do need Melo. You avoided this portion of the discussion in your response, which is fine, but the fact of the matter remains. If you don't get Carmelo, your team does not have a shot in hell at beating the Golden State Warriors. It'll still be a long shot even with Melo, but at least you will have a season you can cheer for and have hope for. With your current roster, despite fans "having faith" in the team as it stands, you are terribly misguided. You have no shot without Melo.

I didn't come on here to preach about how you need to offer more, let Morey be Morey. Hold out for the best deal, by all means. I would if I was GM. But at the end of the day, a LOT of Rockets fans are severely undervaluing and underestimating the impact Melo would have on this roster. He fit's absolutely perfectly, and would be surrounded by people he likes, on a team he really wants to play for. Don't be fools. The Knicks are in a sticky situation but that doesn't mean the Rockets are not as well. You guys are dead in the water without making a trade for Melo happen. The Knicks know it too, which poses an even bigger problem for you. Anyone who says otherwise is a delusional fan.

All that stuff about the Knicks making a promise to Carmelo is bologna. What about Melo's promise to waive his NTC for CLE as well as HOU? He changed his tune, so why can't we? If there is a deal that could be made that benefits the Knicks and Melo mutually with the Rockets, it will be made. That is the promise, and the Knicks will keep that promise once a deal like that is presented to them. Ryan Anderson & a 1st round pick is literally a slap in the face and honestly the type of trade offer that would make me block Morey's number and keep Melo on the roster until he opens up his potential destinations. It's a ridiculous offer.
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,578
And1: 404
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Melodrama 

Post#36 » by texasholdem » Fri Aug 4, 2017 5:19 pm

Caramel_Anton wrote:
Mr. E wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:As a Knicks fan let me tell you two things. I've been pining to get Chris Paul to team up with Carmelo since Melo gutted our roster back in 2011. As a man who has been forced to watch Melo - and admittedly am a fan ultimately - Melo WILL be Team USA Melo on that Rockets lineup. If you need further proof - Just look at 2013 when the Knicks had Kidd running the point. Melo got scoring title & arguably the best season of his career almost taking the Knicks to the ECF if it wasn't for a disastrous showing by the former Mavs Tyson & Kidd against the Pacers.

Melo has always been missing a playmaking facilitator. The reason Olympic Melo is a thing, is because Olympic Melo plays with real playmakers & facilitators, not because he's a patriot. Harden & Paul are hands down without a doubt the best backcourt in the NBA to put behind Carmelo. Period. You all should be praying he ends up on your roster because it will be the only chance you have at taking down the Warriors and you are delusional if you think otherwise. I honestly think that with Melo, OKC & HOU are the only two teams in the entire NBA to have a chance at taking down the Warriors. Of those two teams, Rockets have the best shot. Harden is incredible. AND MELO WANTS TO PLAY THERE. He WANTS to play under COTY MDA. He WANTS to take a secondary role to Harden. And considering the Rockets have arguably the BEST person in the entire NBA to keep Melo in line (CP3 - considering their friendship and Paul's on court demeanor and leadership), the Rockets need to make sure they get their 3rd star.

The other thing I wanted to tell you is that the Knicks are not taking on Anderson's albatross contract. So get used to the idea of trading away more than Anderson and a 1st round pick, because that 1st round pick is the MINIMUM it will take to dump Anderson. You don't get Melo for free. There are ways to do this without giving up Ariza & Gordon (players I agree that you would need in order to take down GSW and in turn would make a trade for Melo pointless if you're giving up other major assets to your push). Warm up to the idea that you are giving away multiple firsts and/or possibly some young talent you may want to keep.

Just as a Melo fan, I'd love to see him play with the Rockets and take down the GSW. With the addition to Paul, Rocket's would be my new favorite West Coast team to watch & root for. That being said - I'd be willing to give up more than most people on this board are claiming they are willing to give for Carmelo. You are seriously undervaluing him. He's 32 - not 36.


Thank you for your opinion, but I believe that you are fooling yourself through blind hope if you think that the Knicks will get back multiple first round picks for Carmelo Anthony at this point. I've seen some thoughts coming from the Knicks camp and it appears that many think that Melo - despite the fact that the Knicks organization has gone out of their way to hurt his vaule - think that a return close to what the team gave up for him is coming. That just isn't happening.

The Rockets are not bidding against anyone. If a first is sent out (and I think that it will be) then it will not go to the Knicks, but rather to a third or fourth team in a deal to make this happen.

Melo does not have to expand his NTC waiver list and he does not have to try to hurt the team that he is going to...but that said, NYC does not have to trade him. Right now it appears that the options are whatever deal Houston may put together with multiple teams or to keep Melo on the roster and hope that it is not a distraction.

New York's biggest concern that I see right now is that if they keep Melo then they are going back on their pledge to him that he would be traded to the Rockets. I know that there is new leadership; but the promise from the organization was made and I think that we all know that it does not matter who the GM of the Knicks is, it all comes down to James Dolan. Will Anthony and his agent be OK working for James Dolan for the next two seasons as the end of his career is spent on a team that is not challenging for the playoffs?

As for the Rockets young talent: I can see Hartenstein, Taylor or Onuaku moved. Anyone who thinks that Zhou would be moved just has not been paying attention to the Houston Rockets for the past 17 years.

I still think that the Rockets outgoing package (if it happens) will be Anderson, Onuaku, NGC's and the rights to a foreign player while the Knicks incoming will be a good player from a third team, NGC's and the rights to a foreign player.

What hurt the Knicks the most here (other than their own actions) seems to be the ongoing issues with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Because of their apparent implosion that took away the only chance the Knicks had at somewhat of a bidding war between the only two trade partners that were ever realistic for a guy who can veto any trade. I do not think that the Knicks would get a better deal from Cleveland; and I do not think that the Cleveland front office would be able to put together a multi-team deal the way that Houston could that would benefit NYC.

I am not taking this opinion in a gloating sort of way. I personally do not think that this trade is going to happen (at least not until training camp at the earliest), and I do not envy the Knicks in this situation. I think that their best course of action is to make the deal if the return is right; but if they do not then they've got to go into damage control with Melo's agent with eyes on future transactions.

I seriously doubt that we see another NTC like this given out for a long time. It is almost shocking just how much one power one player can yield in a situation where a franchise is at a crossroads.


The way I look at it is like this: If you guys wanted to dump Ryan Anderson just on your own - you'd be giving up at least 1 pick or taking back a smaller bad contract in return for Anderson being a fit someplace (like Leonard from POR). Since the Rockets can't take on any additional contracts in a Melo trade, then you have to think.

Somehow, the Rockets need to dump Ryno, keep Ariza & Gordon yet incentivize a third team to sweeten the pot for Melo all while giving up just one 1st round pick and possibly NGC's & Hartenstein/Onuaku.

I don't expect a King's Ransom by any stretch of the imagination for Carmelo. I do expect what equates to at least one 1st rounder and cap relief for future seasons. Which means, no bad contracts in return. I was saying, if you want to dump Ryno on the Knicks then it's going to cost multiple picks. A trade I don't see happening from the Rockets end. Which ultimately is why I don't see a trade happening either.

My point coming on here though, was to remind you all that you do need Melo. You avoided this portion of the discussion in your response, which is fine, but the fact of the matter remains. If you don't get Carmelo, your team does not have a shot in hell at beating the Golden State Warriors. It'll still be a long shot even with Melo, but at least you will have a season you can cheer for and have hope for. With your current roster, despite fans "having faith" in the team as it stands, you are terribly misguided. You have no shot without Melo.

I didn't come on here to preach about how you need to offer more, let Morey be Morey. Hold out for the best deal, by all means. I would if I was GM. But at the end of the day, a LOT of Rockets fans are severely undervaluing and underestimating the impact Melo would have on this roster. He fit's absolutely perfectly, and would be surrounded by people he likes, on a team he really wants to play for. Don't be fools. The Knicks are in a sticky situation but that doesn't mean the Rockets are not as well. You guys are dead in the water without making a trade for Melo happen. The Knicks know it too, which poses an even bigger problem for you. Anyone who says otherwise is a delusional fan.

All that stuff about the Knicks making a promise to Carmelo is bologna. What about Melo's promise to waive his NTC for CLE as well as HOU? He changed his tune, so why can't we? If there is a deal that could be made that benefits the Knicks and Melo mutually with the Rockets, it will be made. That is the promise, and the Knicks will keep that promise once a deal like that is presented to them. Ryan Anderson & a 1st round pick is literally a slap in the face and honestly the type of trade offer that would make me block Morey's number and keep Melo on the roster until he opens up his potential destinations. It's a ridiculous offer.


Proposal #6931897
Knicks get: Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert from Cavs
Cavs get: Frank Ntilikina and first rounder from Knicks + Dwyane Wade from Bulls
Rockets get: Carmelo Anthony
Bulls get: Ryan Anderson, Chinanu Onuaku, Shawn Long, Tim Quarterman, first rounder from Rockets + first rounder from Knicks

Would Knicks give up Frank + 2 future firsts (and take on Shump's contract) for 2-3 years of Prime Kyrie and his Bird rights?

Trading for Anderson means the Bulls don't have to re-sign Mirotic, who put up similar stats (but is 3 years younger than Ryno)
but it will take some convincing, hence the the two picks coming in to the Bulls.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
Caramel_Anton
Junior
Posts: 259
And1: 97
Joined: Aug 02, 2017

Re: Melodrama 

Post#37 » by Caramel_Anton » Fri Aug 4, 2017 5:58 pm

texasholdem wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:
Mr. E wrote:
Thank you for your opinion, but I believe that you are fooling yourself through blind hope if you think that the Knicks will get back multiple first round picks for Carmelo Anthony at this point. I've seen some thoughts coming from the Knicks camp and it appears that many think that Melo - despite the fact that the Knicks organization has gone out of their way to hurt his vaule - think that a return close to what the team gave up for him is coming. That just isn't happening.

The Rockets are not bidding against anyone. If a first is sent out (and I think that it will be) then it will not go to the Knicks, but rather to a third or fourth team in a deal to make this happen.

Melo does not have to expand his NTC waiver list and he does not have to try to hurt the team that he is going to...but that said, NYC does not have to trade him. Right now it appears that the options are whatever deal Houston may put together with multiple teams or to keep Melo on the roster and hope that it is not a distraction.

New York's biggest concern that I see right now is that if they keep Melo then they are going back on their pledge to him that he would be traded to the Rockets. I know that there is new leadership; but the promise from the organization was made and I think that we all know that it does not matter who the GM of the Knicks is, it all comes down to James Dolan. Will Anthony and his agent be OK working for James Dolan for the next two seasons as the end of his career is spent on a team that is not challenging for the playoffs?

As for the Rockets young talent: I can see Hartenstein, Taylor or Onuaku moved. Anyone who thinks that Zhou would be moved just has not been paying attention to the Houston Rockets for the past 17 years.

I still think that the Rockets outgoing package (if it happens) will be Anderson, Onuaku, NGC's and the rights to a foreign player while the Knicks incoming will be a good player from a third team, NGC's and the rights to a foreign player.

What hurt the Knicks the most here (other than their own actions) seems to be the ongoing issues with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Because of their apparent implosion that took away the only chance the Knicks had at somewhat of a bidding war between the only two trade partners that were ever realistic for a guy who can veto any trade. I do not think that the Knicks would get a better deal from Cleveland; and I do not think that the Cleveland front office would be able to put together a multi-team deal the way that Houston could that would benefit NYC.

I am not taking this opinion in a gloating sort of way. I personally do not think that this trade is going to happen (at least not until training camp at the earliest), and I do not envy the Knicks in this situation. I think that their best course of action is to make the deal if the return is right; but if they do not then they've got to go into damage control with Melo's agent with eyes on future transactions.

I seriously doubt that we see another NTC like this given out for a long time. It is almost shocking just how much one power one player can yield in a situation where a franchise is at a crossroads.


The way I look at it is like this: If you guys wanted to dump Ryan Anderson just on your own - you'd be giving up at least 1 pick or taking back a smaller bad contract in return for Anderson being a fit someplace (like Leonard from POR). Since the Rockets can't take on any additional contracts in a Melo trade, then you have to think.

Somehow, the Rockets need to dump Ryno, keep Ariza & Gordon yet incentivize a third team to sweeten the pot for Melo all while giving up just one 1st round pick and possibly NGC's & Hartenstein/Onuaku.

I don't expect a King's Ransom by any stretch of the imagination for Carmelo. I do expect what equates to at least one 1st rounder and cap relief for future seasons. Which means, no bad contracts in return. I was saying, if you want to dump Ryno on the Knicks then it's going to cost multiple picks. A trade I don't see happening from the Rockets end. Which ultimately is why I don't see a trade happening either.

My point coming on here though, was to remind you all that you do need Melo. You avoided this portion of the discussion in your response, which is fine, but the fact of the matter remains. If you don't get Carmelo, your team does not have a shot in hell at beating the Golden State Warriors. It'll still be a long shot even with Melo, but at least you will have a season you can cheer for and have hope for. With your current roster, despite fans "having faith" in the team as it stands, you are terribly misguided. You have no shot without Melo.

I didn't come on here to preach about how you need to offer more, let Morey be Morey. Hold out for the best deal, by all means. I would if I was GM. But at the end of the day, a LOT of Rockets fans are severely undervaluing and underestimating the impact Melo would have on this roster. He fit's absolutely perfectly, and would be surrounded by people he likes, on a team he really wants to play for. Don't be fools. The Knicks are in a sticky situation but that doesn't mean the Rockets are not as well. You guys are dead in the water without making a trade for Melo happen. The Knicks know it too, which poses an even bigger problem for you. Anyone who says otherwise is a delusional fan.

All that stuff about the Knicks making a promise to Carmelo is bologna. What about Melo's promise to waive his NTC for CLE as well as HOU? He changed his tune, so why can't we? If there is a deal that could be made that benefits the Knicks and Melo mutually with the Rockets, it will be made. That is the promise, and the Knicks will keep that promise once a deal like that is presented to them. Ryan Anderson & a 1st round pick is literally a slap in the face and honestly the type of trade offer that would make me block Morey's number and keep Melo on the roster until he opens up his potential destinations. It's a ridiculous offer.


Proposal #6931897
Knicks get: Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert from Cavs
Cavs get: Frank Ntilikina and first rounder from Knicks + Dwyane Wade from Bulls
Rockets get: Carmelo Anthony
Bulls get: Ryan Anderson, Chinanu Onuaku, Shawn Long, Tim Quarterman, first rounder from Rockets + first rounder from Knicks

Would Knicks give up Frank + 2 future firsts (and take on Shump's contract) for 2-3 years of Prime Kyrie and his Bird rights?

Trading for Anderson means the Bulls don't have to re-sign Mirotic, who put up similar stats (but is 3 years younger than Ryno)
but it will take some convincing, hence the the two picks coming in to the Bulls.


You are asking the Knicks to trade Carmelo Anthony, Frank Ntilikina, 2 future 1sts AND take on Shumpert's contract for Irving?

Never in 80,000,000,000 years.

The reason the Knicks don't want to include Frank in any trade for Kyrie is because we would need Frank to counter-balance Kyrie. We can't have a backcourt of Kyrie & THjr. That would be a disaster. Frank is a pass first- high IQ defender. He'd run point and Kyrie would play the 2 in any scenario in which Kyrie comes to NY. Remove Frank from the trade to make the Knicks consider. Cavs would then say no, though. Bulls get too good a value here, maybe let Rockets keep Onuaku and then send Zhou Qi to Cavs and this trade works. NY picks would have to be unp in the sooner of the two and lotto protected on the later pick.
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,578
And1: 404
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Melodrama 

Post#38 » by texasholdem » Fri Aug 4, 2017 7:44 pm

Caramel_Anton wrote:
texasholdem wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:
The way I look at it is like this: If you guys wanted to dump Ryan Anderson just on your own - you'd be giving up at least 1 pick or taking back a smaller bad contract in return for Anderson being a fit someplace (like Leonard from POR). Since the Rockets can't take on any additional contracts in a Melo trade, then you have to think.

Somehow, the Rockets need to dump Ryno, keep Ariza & Gordon yet incentivize a third team to sweeten the pot for Melo all while giving up just one 1st round pick and possibly NGC's & Hartenstein/Onuaku.

I don't expect a King's Ransom by any stretch of the imagination for Carmelo. I do expect what equates to at least one 1st rounder and cap relief for future seasons. Which means, no bad contracts in return. I was saying, if you want to dump Ryno on the Knicks then it's going to cost multiple picks. A trade I don't see happening from the Rockets end. Which ultimately is why I don't see a trade happening either.

My point coming on here though, was to remind you all that you do need Melo. You avoided this portion of the discussion in your response, which is fine, but the fact of the matter remains. If you don't get Carmelo, your team does not have a shot in hell at beating the Golden State Warriors. It'll still be a long shot even with Melo, but at least you will have a season you can cheer for and have hope for. With your current roster, despite fans "having faith" in the team as it stands, you are terribly misguided. You have no shot without Melo.

I didn't come on here to preach about how you need to offer more, let Morey be Morey. Hold out for the best deal, by all means. I would if I was GM. But at the end of the day, a LOT of Rockets fans are severely undervaluing and underestimating the impact Melo would have on this roster. He fit's absolutely perfectly, and would be surrounded by people he likes, on a team he really wants to play for. Don't be fools. The Knicks are in a sticky situation but that doesn't mean the Rockets are not as well. You guys are dead in the water without making a trade for Melo happen. The Knicks know it too, which poses an even bigger problem for you. Anyone who says otherwise is a delusional fan.

All that stuff about the Knicks making a promise to Carmelo is bologna. What about Melo's promise to waive his NTC for CLE as well as HOU? He changed his tune, so why can't we? If there is a deal that could be made that benefits the Knicks and Melo mutually with the Rockets, it will be made. That is the promise, and the Knicks will keep that promise once a deal like that is presented to them. Ryan Anderson & a 1st round pick is literally a slap in the face and honestly the type of trade offer that would make me block Morey's number and keep Melo on the roster until he opens up his potential destinations. It's a ridiculous offer.


Proposal #6931897
Knicks get: Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert from Cavs
Cavs get: Frank Ntilikina and first rounder from Knicks + Dwyane Wade from Bulls
Rockets get: Carmelo Anthony
Bulls get: Ryan Anderson, Chinanu Onuaku, Shawn Long, Tim Quarterman, first rounder from Rockets + first rounder from Knicks

Would Knicks give up Frank + 2 future firsts (and take on Shump's contract) for 2-3 years of Prime Kyrie and his Bird rights?

Trading for Anderson means the Bulls don't have to re-sign Mirotic, who put up similar stats (but is 3 years younger than Ryno)
but it will take some convincing, hence the the two picks coming in to the Bulls.


You are asking the Knicks to trade Carmelo Anthony, Frank Ntilikina, 2 future 1sts AND take on Shumpert's contract for Irving?

Never in 80,000,000,000 years.

The reason the Knicks don't want to include Frank in any trade for Kyrie is because we would need Frank to counter-balance Kyrie. We can't have a backcourt of Kyrie & THjr. That would be a disaster. Frank is a pass first- high IQ defender. He'd run point and Kyrie would play the 2 in any scenario in which Kyrie comes to NY. Remove Frank from the trade to make the Knicks consider. Cavs would then say no, though. Bulls get too good a value here, maybe let Rockets keep Onuaku and then send Zhou Qi to Cavs and this trade works. NY picks would have to be unp in the sooner of the two and lotto protected on the later pick.


OK, what if NYK can keep Frank but they'll have to send Willy to CLE instead. Onuaku and Hartenstein can go to NY then. Zhou probably stays in HOU in case Yao and other Chinese investors are interested in buying the team from Les.

Kyrie is in his prime at 25 and a NBA champion, Gold medalist, 4x all star in 6 seasons. Knicks are gonna have to give up a lot to get him, vs Carmelo who is 33 and on the downside of his career.

Some kind of deal involving Anderson/Irving/Anthony needs to happen for all teams involved. CHI is a good landing spot for Anderson since they are so under the cap.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
Caramel_Anton
Junior
Posts: 259
And1: 97
Joined: Aug 02, 2017

Re: Melodrama 

Post#39 » by Caramel_Anton » Fri Aug 4, 2017 8:07 pm

texasholdem wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:
texasholdem wrote:
Proposal #6931897
Knicks get: Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert from Cavs
Cavs get: Frank Ntilikina and first rounder from Knicks + Dwyane Wade from Bulls
Rockets get: Carmelo Anthony
Bulls get: Ryan Anderson, Chinanu Onuaku, Shawn Long, Tim Quarterman, first rounder from Rockets + first rounder from Knicks

Would Knicks give up Frank + 2 future firsts (and take on Shump's contract) for 2-3 years of Prime Kyrie and his Bird rights?

Trading for Anderson means the Bulls don't have to re-sign Mirotic, who put up similar stats (but is 3 years younger than Ryno)
but it will take some convincing, hence the the two picks coming in to the Bulls.


You are asking the Knicks to trade Carmelo Anthony, Frank Ntilikina, 2 future 1sts AND take on Shumpert's contract for Irving?

Never in 80,000,000,000 years.

The reason the Knicks don't want to include Frank in any trade for Kyrie is because we would need Frank to counter-balance Kyrie. We can't have a backcourt of Kyrie & THjr. That would be a disaster. Frank is a pass first- high IQ defender. He'd run point and Kyrie would play the 2 in any scenario in which Kyrie comes to NY. Remove Frank from the trade to make the Knicks consider. Cavs would then say no, though. Bulls get too good a value here, maybe let Rockets keep Onuaku and then send Zhou Qi to Cavs and this trade works. NY picks would have to be unp in the sooner of the two and lotto protected on the later pick.


OK, what if NYK can keep Frank but they'll have to send Willy to CLE instead. Onuaku and Hartenstein can go to NY then. Zhou probably stays in HOU in case Yao and other Chinese investors are interested in buying the team from Les.

Kyrie is in his prime at 25 and a NBA champion, Gold medalist, 4x all star in 6 seasons. Knicks are gonna have to give up a lot to get him, vs Carmelo who is 33 and on the downside of his career.

Some kind of deal involving Anderson/Irving/Anthony needs to happen for all teams involved. CHI is a good landing spot for Anderson since they are so under the cap.


To be honest, not saying Melo, Willy & two 1sts are an unfair trade, the value seems good there.. From a fan standpoint, and from what the front office has promised us this time around, I'd say that is too high of an asking price for us to bet on Kyrie.

Kyrie has been my favorite player in the NBA (aside from Porzingis now taking that spot) since he came into the league. I'd still say no to Carmelo, Willy & two 1sts to get him. It's too reminiscent of the Melo trade and he's too much like Melo when we got him. He doesnt bother with defense, and is a 1 dimension player. He does what he does very good - and could arguably average 30 a game on a Knicks roster next season. But... I don't know. I like the path we are on. Collecting young talent, letting them grow together. Willy & KP6 are very close - and Doncic is our target for next years draft. Another guy who is already friends with Kp6 Willy & Frank. Euro squad, baby!

Only way you convince me to take Kyrie, honestly, is if Cavs take Carmelo, Lee, O'Quinn and 2 firsts. They can even unload a contract on us too, like Shump.

What I see happening in terms of Ryno would be something along the lines of:
Ryno to POR.
Melo to HOU.
Harkless, Turner & a HOU unp 1st to NYK.

I don't want that to happen, but I can see the Knicks FO doing something like that just to get a deal done. Turner isn't a player who couldn't be flipped when he has 1 or 2 years on his contract, his contract is just long and bad right now.

Another scenario just for the sake of having you get an idea of what to expect in a Ryno / Melo trade:
Ryno, Onuaku to MIL.
Melo to HOU.
Teletovic, Parker, HOU NGC's and a HOU 1st to NYK.

^ I'd be cool with that as a Knick fan.

A Melo/Irving/Ryno deal is never going to happen, and good riddance.
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,578
And1: 404
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Melodrama 

Post#40 » by texasholdem » Sat Aug 5, 2017 5:19 am

Caramel_Anton wrote:
texasholdem wrote:
Caramel_Anton wrote:
You are asking the Knicks to trade Carmelo Anthony, Frank Ntilikina, 2 future 1sts AND take on Shumpert's contract for Irving?

Never in 80,000,000,000 years.

The reason the Knicks don't want to include Frank in any trade for Kyrie is because we would need Frank to counter-balance Kyrie. We can't have a backcourt of Kyrie & THjr. That would be a disaster. Frank is a pass first- high IQ defender. He'd run point and Kyrie would play the 2 in any scenario in which Kyrie comes to NY. Remove Frank from the trade to make the Knicks consider. Cavs would then say no, though. Bulls get too good a value here, maybe let Rockets keep Onuaku and then send Zhou Qi to Cavs and this trade works. NY picks would have to be unp in the sooner of the two and lotto protected on the later pick.


OK, what if NYK can keep Frank but they'll have to send Willy to CLE instead. Onuaku and Hartenstein can go to NY then. Zhou probably stays in HOU in case Yao and other Chinese investors are interested in buying the team from Les.

Kyrie is in his prime at 25 and a NBA champion, Gold medalist, 4x all star in 6 seasons. Knicks are gonna have to give up a lot to get him, vs Carmelo who is 33 and on the downside of his career.

Some kind of deal involving Anderson/Irving/Anthony needs to happen for all teams involved. CHI is a good landing spot for Anderson since they are so under the cap.


To be honest, not saying Melo, Willy & two 1sts are an unfair trade, the value seems good there.. From a fan standpoint, and from what the front office has promised us this time around, I'd say that is too high of an asking price for us to bet on Kyrie.

Kyrie has been my favorite player in the NBA (aside from Porzingis now taking that spot) since he came into the league. I'd still say no to Carmelo, Willy & two 1sts to get him. It's too reminiscent of the Melo trade and he's too much like Melo when we got him. He doesnt bother with defense, and is a 1 dimension player. He does what he does very good - and could arguably average 30 a game on a Knicks roster next season. But... I don't know. I like the path we are on. Collecting young talent, letting them grow together. Willy & KP6 are very close - and Doncic is our target for next years draft. Another guy who is already friends with Kp6 Willy & Frank. Euro squad, baby!

Only way you convince me to take Kyrie, honestly, is if Cavs take Carmelo, Lee, O'Quinn and 2 firsts. They can even unload a contract on us too, like Shump.

What I see happening in terms of Ryno would be something along the lines of:
Ryno to POR.
Melo to HOU.
Harkless, Turner & a HOU unp 1st to NYK.

I don't want that to happen, but I can see the Knicks FO doing something like that just to get a deal done. Turner isn't a player who couldn't be flipped when he has 1 or 2 years on his contract, his contract is just long and bad right now.

Another scenario just for the sake of having you get an idea of what to expect in a Ryno / Melo trade:
Ryno, Onuaku to MIL.
Melo to HOU.
Teletovic, Parker, HOU NGC's and a HOU 1st to NYK.

^ I'd be cool with that as a Knick fan.

A Melo/Irving/Ryno deal is never going to happen, and good riddance.


The concept of not wanting your favorite player in the entire league on your favorite/home team is so bizarre to me, but whatever. Thanks for dropping by and good luck to your tank season.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming

Return to Houston Rockets