RealGM

This summer, what if Houston traded Harden for LeBron (after he opted into his deal)?

Ripple effects
1. Shortened title window
2. Talent upgrade
3. Retain more of the teams depth (compared to the gymnastics of signing him outright)
4. Likely tied to paying CP3 a max deal long term
5. Transition of LeBron learning the offense
6. LeBron (& CP3) could start declining/needing more rest/become more injury prone with age
7. Possibly better cap flexibility

Thoughts? Edits? Love/hate/indifference?



(Harden signed an extension recently so I believe he can't be traded until early July.)

Hate it. Definitely would hate it.

Maybe one day Harden will get it, but there's no way in hell I'd trade for old LeBron at this point.

TMU wrote:Maybe one day Harden will get it, but there's no way in hell I'd trade for old LeBron at this point.

Lebron just had 50 in a Finals game on great efficiency. Also had 8 assists. Harden disappears when we need him the most. He has his whole career. How many great games from start to finish did Harden have this postseason? Like 2? I've always supported Harden but he's proven time and time again that he's just a regular season player. I'm convinced that he'll never get it.

Lebron probably still has 3 years of dominance left. I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

If Lebron wants to come here, he won't make it cost Harden. That would be really stupid when we have other options.

I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my utter disgust for self-hating Rockets fans...especially those who feel compelled to capitulate to other fanbases so they can be perceived as "objective".
True fandome is inherently biased. Embrace it.

I also have a special dislike for those who cave to the popular narrative just because it's popular. Grow a spine...and a brain.
Stop getting duped into dumping on your own team and stars. If that's too difficult, you always have 29 other options.

But seriously, I can't stand weak-ass fans.

To the original topic, no you don't do that deal.
The Rockets were one hamstring pull away from a trip to the Finals and likely a championship. In fact, one could argue if they were able to get anything more than a zero balance out of Luc Mbah a Moute and/or Ryan Anderson in the series or that stunning 0-12 night from Trevor Ariza in game seven, they still may have advanced.

The success of this season was largely built on Harden's back. As such, now just doesn't seem like a logical time to abandon the process, even for a great, but notably older, player.

BallerTalk wrote:I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my utter disgust for self-hating Rockets fans...especially those who feel compelled to capitulate to other fanbases so they can be perceived as "objective".
True fandome is inherently biased. Embrace it.

I also have a special dislike for those who cave to the popular narrative just because it's popular. Grow a spine...and a brain.
Stop getting duped into dumping on your own team and stars. If that's too difficult, you always have 29 other options.

Come on man, just admit it.

The FIT is terrible.

moofs wrote:

BallerTalk wrote:I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my utter disgust for self-hating Rockets fans...especially those who feel compelled to capitulate to other fanbases so they can be perceived as "objective".
True fandome is inherently biased. Embrace it.

I also have a special dislike for those who cave to the popular narrative just because it's popular. Grow a spine...and a brain.
Stop getting duped into dumping on your own team and stars. If that's too difficult, you always have 29 other options.

Come on man, just admit it.

The FIT is terrible.

You're right. Clearly a horrible fit.
The team was doomed from the start. Us fans were too blind to see what the naysayers did.
"Only one basketball"..."Defense matters"..."2 (Too) ball dominant"... it's all so clear now.

The Rockets really have no choice but to blow it up.
We all know the saying: "If it doesn't fit, you must...uh, quit.

BallerTalk wrote:

moofs wrote:

BallerTalk wrote:I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my utter disgust for self-hating Rockets fans...especially those who feel compelled to capitulate to other fanbases so they can be perceived as "objective".
True fandome is inherently biased. Embrace it.

I also have a special dislike for those who cave to the popular narrative just because it's popular. Grow a spine...and a brain.
Stop getting duped into dumping on your own team and stars. If that's too difficult, you always have 29 other options.

Come on man, just admit it.

The FIT is terrible.

You're right. Clearly a horrible fit.
The team was doomed from the start. Us fans were too blind to see what the naysayers did.
"Only one basketball"..."Defense matters"..."2 (Too) ball dominant"... it's all so clear now.

The Rockets really have no choice but to blow it up.
We all know the saying: "If it doesn't fit, you must...uh, quit.

I do have to admit that between the refs naturally swallowing their whistles in the playoffs, and Vegas and the NBA deciding to make the worst possible calls imaginable, and having his all-world teammate and team’s best defender and one of his best passing targets relegated to the bench by random injury, that Harden’s game is pretty negatively impacted in the playoffs.

Clearly we need to trade him for Deron Williams and a first.

BallerTalk wrote:I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my utter disgust for self-hating Rockets fans...especially those who feel compelled to capitulate to other fanbases so they can be perceived as "objective".
True fandome is inherently biased. Embrace it.

I also have a special dislike for those who cave to the popular narrative just because it's popular. Grow a spine...and a brain.
Stop getting duped into dumping on your own team and stars. If that's too difficult, you always have 29 other options.

But seriously, I can't stand weak-ass fans.

To the original topic, no you don't do that deal.
The Rockets were one hamstring pull away from a trip to the Finals and likely a championship. In fact, one could argue if they were able to get anything more than a zero balance out of Luc Mbah a Moute and/or Ryan Anderson in the series or that stunning 0-12 night from Trevor Ariza in game seven, they still may have advanced.

The success of this season was largely built on Harden's back. As such, now just doesn't seem like a logical time to abandon the process, even for a great, but notably older, player.

I've been a huge Rockets fan for 25 years now. So if this post was in response to my post, yes I take offense to it. It's not about going with the popular narrative, or not having a spine or a brain. It's about not having blind faith in a player that disappoints every season. Harden disappoints every year, at this point that is almost a fact. You should go ahead and answer the question in my previous post... How many great games from start to finish did Harden have this postseason? Did he come through for us in game 7? No, he had a great first quarter and disappeared, as usual, through out the rest of the game. Yes we were "one hamstring injury away"... but this is Chris Paul we're talking about. When was the last time he played a complete postseason? Will this be our excuse when/if he gets injured next season again?

You can be a huge fan of your team and also criticize the players when it's necessary. You can have it both ways. I refuse to have blind and ignorant faith in Harden the way some of you guys do. It's not all or nothing. There is a middle ground. Only because I'm criticizing Harden now, after supporting him his entire career (including when he was in OKC), doesn't mean that I "hate" the Rockets or that I "hate" Harden. If you're too sensitive to realize that and get upset anytime someone criticizes your favorite player, then that's on you. Take your bull somewhere else man.

Lazy Faizy wrote:I've been a huge Rockets fan for 25 years now. So if this post was in response to my post, yes I take offense to it. It's not about going with the popular narrative, or not having a spine or a brain. It's about not having blind faith in a player that disappoints every season. Harden disappoints every year, at this point that is almost a fact. You should go ahead and answer the question in my previous post... How many great games from start to finish did Harden have this postseason? Did he come through for us in game 7? No, he had a great first quarter and disappeared, as usual, through out the rest of the game. Yes we were "one hamstring injury away"... but this is Chris Paul we're talking about. When was the last time he played a complete postseason? Will this be our excuse when/if he gets injured next season again?

You can be a huge fan of your team and also criticize the players when it's necessary. You can have it both ways. I refuse to have blind and ignorant faith in Harden the way some of you guys do. It's not all or nothing. There is a middle ground. Only because I'm criticizing Harden now, after supporting him his entire career (including when he was in OKC), doesn't mean that I "hate" the Rockets or that I "hate" Harden. If you're too sensitive to realize that and get upset anytime someone criticizes your favorite player, then that's on you. Take your bull somewhere else man.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I actually think part of Harden’s problem is that he isn’t mentally strong enough to overcome narrative, both within his own head and as a result of the consequences of that narrative in the heads of others.
I think his far bigger problem is his undying eternal love for large buttoxed strippers.

He does have a tendency to disappear in the playoffs. 2016 was fairly excusable. 2015 was not, though he did play some of the most beautiful basketball I’ve ever seen for 2 games. 2017 was not. 2018... I can excuse him for 2018, I think.

The big question is: if he was to go, who in the world could replace him? We’re talking a 3x MVP frontrunner, here. It’s likely Harden that’s significantly responsible for Capella becoming the offensive force he is. Teams don’t just swap guys of his caliber very often, and for good reason - if there is no problem with him, why did you want to trade him (FIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTT!!!!!!), and if there is one, why do we want him and why do you think you’re getting back equal value?

Forget criticism. Let’s just assume that’s valid. Think Barkley for Hornacek. That’s what we’d be looking at. Moses Malone for CALDWELL JONES. That’s how these work. I understand that our opinions on this don’t matter, I’m just saying that we’re stuck with him for at least 2-3 more years, for better or worse.

Lazy Faizy wrote:

BallerTalk wrote:I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my utter disgust for self-hating Rockets fans...especially those who feel compelled to capitulate to other fanbases so they can be perceived as "objective".
True fandome is inherently biased. Embrace it.

I also have a special dislike for those who cave to the popular narrative just because it's popular. Grow a spine...and a brain.
Stop getting duped into dumping on your own team and stars. If that's too difficult, you always have 29 other options.

But seriously, I can't stand weak-ass fans.

To the original topic, no you don't do that deal.
The Rockets were one hamstring pull away from a trip to the Finals and likely a championship. In fact, one could argue if they were able to get anything more than a zero balance out of Luc Mbah a Moute and/or Ryan Anderson in the series or that stunning 0-12 night from Trevor Ariza in game seven, they still may have advanced.

The success of this season was largely built on Harden's back. As such, now just doesn't seem like a logical time to abandon the process, even for a great, but notably older, player.

I've been a huge Rockets fan for 25 years now. So if this post was in response to my post, yes I take offense to it. It's not about going with the popular narrative, or not having a spine or a brain. It's about not having blind faith in a player that disappoints every season. Harden disappoints every year, at this point that is almost a fact. You should go ahead and answer the question in my previous post... How many great games from start to finish did Harden have this postseason? Did he come through for us in game 7? No, he had a great first quarter and disappeared, as usual, through out the rest of the game. Yes we were "one hamstring injury away"... but this is Chris Paul we're talking about. When was the last time he played a complete postseason? Will this be our excuse when/if he gets injured next season again?

You can be a huge fan of your team and also criticize the players when it's necessary. You can have it both ways. I refuse to have blind and ignorant faith in Harden the way some of you guys do. It's not all or nothing. There is a middle ground. Only because I'm criticizing Harden now, after supporting him his entire career (including when he was in OKC), doesn't mean that I "hate" the Rockets or that I "hate" Harden. If you're too sensitive to realize that and get upset anytime someone criticizes your favorite player, then that's on you. Take your bull somewhere else man.

Thanks for exemplifying everything I wrote.

Luc MbAh a Moute, who had been a gem for the Rockets all season, became arguably the worst player in the playoffs after a second shoulder separation destroyed him mentally. BUT HARDEN CHOKED.

Ryan Anderson was essentially unplayable in a series where his most exceptional skill, shooting, should have been at a premium. BUT HARDEN CHOKED.

Trevor Ariza, whose contributions to the team night in and night out are usually indispensable, went 0-12 fg in game seven, including 0-9 from three point range. BUT HARDEN CHOKED.

Eric Gordon, who I still believe is the best bench player in the NBA, went 2-12 from three point range in game seven. BUT HARDEN CHOKED.

Even when you look back on the season as a whole:
The Rockets blazed through the regular season, setting a franchise record for wins, led by the likely MVP, then rolled through the first few rounds of the playoffs before eventually putting the reigning champs on the brink of elimination.
Then they unfortunately lost HALF of everything their team was predicated upon due to an untimely injury, which resulted in them losing a competitive seven game series to a team many consider the most stacked squad in NBA history.

But yeah, clearly HARDEN CHOKED.



I have no problem with fans who have legitimate criticisms. That's an innate part of being a fan as well.
But I think it's fair to expect a supposed fan of the team to offer more informed insight than simply regurgitating half-baked hot takes from talking heads.

It's that lazy parroting of shallow analysis that I disdain. The clueless chatter of individuals easily snookered in by superficial group-think.
There's enough of that idiocy on the general board.

So, sorry if my comment rustled your jimmies but I stand by every word. I have zero respect for capitulating fans, including those who perpetuate hollow narratives as justification.

I completely understand why you would disagree.

BallerTalk wrote:

Lazy Faizy wrote:

BallerTalk wrote:I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my utter disgust for self-hating Rockets fans...especially those who feel compelled to capitulate to other fanbases so they can be perceived as "objective".
True fandome is inherently biased. Embrace it.

I also have a special dislike for those who cave to the popular narrative just because it's popular. Grow a spine...and a brain.
Stop getting duped into dumping on your own team and stars. If that's too difficult, you always have 29 other options.

But seriously, I can't stand weak-ass fans.

To the original topic, no you don't do that deal.
The Rockets were one hamstring pull away from a trip to the Finals and likely a championship. In fact, one could argue if they were able to get anything more than a zero balance out of Luc Mbah a Moute and/or Ryan Anderson in the series or that stunning 0-12 night from Trevor Ariza in game seven, they still may have advanced.

The success of this season was largely built on Harden's back. As such, now just doesn't seem like a logical time to abandon the process, even for a great, but notably older, player.

I've been a huge Rockets fan for 25 years now. So if this post was in response to my post, yes I take offense to it. It's not about going with the popular narrative, or not having a spine or a brain. It's about not having blind faith in a player that disappoints every season. Harden disappoints every year, at this point that is almost a fact. You should go ahead and answer the question in my previous post... How many great games from start to finish did Harden have this postseason? Did he come through for us in game 7? No, he had a great first quarter and disappeared, as usual, through out the rest of the game. Yes we were "one hamstring injury away"... but this is Chris Paul we're talking about. When was the last time he played a complete postseason? Will this be our excuse when/if he gets injured next season again?

You can be a huge fan of your team and also criticize the players when it's necessary. You can have it both ways. I refuse to have blind and ignorant faith in Harden the way some of you guys do. It's not all or nothing. There is a middle ground. Only because I'm criticizing Harden now, after supporting him his entire career (including when he was in OKC), doesn't mean that I "hate" the Rockets or that I "hate" Harden. If you're too sensitive to realize that and get upset anytime someone criticizes your favorite player, then that's on you. Take your bull somewhere else man.

Thanks for exemplifying everything I wrote.

Luc MbAh a Moute, who had been a gem for the Rockets all season, became arguably the worst player in the playoffs after a second shoulder separation destroyed him mentally. BUT HARDEN CHOKED.

Ryan Anderson was essentially unplayable in a series where his most exceptional skill, shooting, should have been at a premium. BUT HARDEN CHOKED.

Trevor Ariza, whose contributions to the team night in and night out are usually indispensable, went 0-12 fg in game seven, including 0-9 from three point range. BUT HARDEN CHOKED.

Eric Gordon, who I still believe is the best bench player in the NBA, went 2-12 from three point range in game seven. BUT HARDEN CHOKED.

Even when you look back on the season as a whole:
The Rockets blazed through the regular season, setting a franchise record for wins, led by the likely MVP, then rolled through the first few rounds of the playoffs before eventually putting the reigning champs on the brink of elimination.
Then they unfortunately lost HALF of everything their team was predicated upon due to an untimely injury, which resulted in them losing a competitive seven game series to a team many consider the most stacked squad in NBA history.

But yeah, clearly HARDEN CHOKED.



I have no problem with fans who have legitimate criticisms. That's an innate part of being a fan as well.
But I think it's fair to expect a supposed fan of the team to offer more informed insight than simply regurgitating half-baked hot takes from talking heads.

It's that lazy parroting of shallow analysis that I disdain. The clueless chatter of individuals easily snookered in by superficial group-think.
There's enough of that idiocy on the general board.

So, sorry if my comment rustled your jimmies but I stand by every word. I have zero respect for capitulating fans, including those who perpetuate hollow narratives as justification.

I completely understand why you would disagree.

Well judging by this post of yours it's pretty clear to me that you're just immature and have to resort to calling people "weak-ass fans" when someone doesn't agree with your point of view. You can stick by everything you said and I'll stick by mine. It doesn't really matter if the role players came through or not, it's game 7 and we need our regular season MVP (emphasis on regular season) to show up for more than just the first quarter. You still haven't answered my question about Harden. I won't ask it again because I've already done so twice. Ariza played amazing defense all through out the series and was exhausted and that's the main reason he shot poorly. Ryan Anderson was injured and barely played any minutes even during the Jazz series, and you expected him of all people to show up and play well against the Warriors, especially being the defensive liability that he is? Come on man, you're really showing your true lack of basketball knowledge here. And this is something that I truly dislike, not only about Rockets fans but fans in general, is when they constantly come up with excuses to defend their best/favorite player on the team. It's like in real life, which is something that you'll find out with experience (don't know how old you are, but judging by how upset you seem to be by a simple criticism, you can't be older than your early twenties), is that you have to stop making excuses at some point. Seriously, stop being so damn sensitive and grow a pair. Hold your favorite player to a higher standard and expect more out of him.

You can call it group thinking all you want, or you can dig through my countless posts of defending Harden through out the last few years on the general board. But at this point I'm going with the "wait and see" approach when it comes to Harden. That's a decision I've made on my own and it's not due to "superficial group-thinking" or whatever you want to call it. If I've come to the conclusion that Harden chokes, it's my conclusion and mine alone, not influenced by anything that anyone else has said about him.

Calm down, have a drink, it's not that serious. Have a good night and a good off-season. Keep having blind faith in your MVP and prepare to be disappointed again next year.