ImageImage

Harden + ? For ?

Moderators: ken6199, TMU

texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,571
And1: 401
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#21 » by texasholdem » Thu May 30, 2019 4:09 pm

1. Harden to Knicks for Mitchell Robinson, Lance Thomas, Frank Ntilikina and pick #3 in the draft.

Knicks can still sign Kevin Durant as a UFA.
Rockets get trade exception and youth.

2. Paul and a first rounder to Dallas Mavericks for Tim Hardaway Jr and Courtney Lee. Dallas needs a veteran to lead Doncic and Porzingis. Lee is expiring and hardaway has 2 years left with a player option in year 2.

3. Clint capela to Atlanta for miles plumlee and pick #8 and pick #10. Capela gives Trae Young a good assist target.

4. Eric Gordon to Orlando for Timofey Mozgov and pick #16

5. PJ Tucker to Spurs for pick #19

Rockets give up harden, paul., capela, Gordon and tucker

Rockets get 5 picks in this draft. #3, #8, #10, #16, #19 along with a solid young player in Robinson and out of 3 long term expensive deals.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
Darthlukey
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,255
And1: 645
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
         

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#22 » by Darthlukey » Sat Jun 1, 2019 2:53 am

TMU wrote:Harden to the Knicks for Zion Williamson and future assets

This one is good lol
Darthlukey
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,255
And1: 645
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
         

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#23 » by Darthlukey » Sat Jun 1, 2019 2:59 am

texasholdem wrote:If Boston fails to get Anthony Davis and Kyrie leaves as expected...

Harden + Paul to Boston for Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart and Aron Baynes.

Rockets
F: Tatum, House? Green?
F: Tucker, Faried?
C: Capela, Baynes
G: Gordon, Smart
G: Hayward, Rivers?
undrafted possibilities: Corey Davis, Jr. (UH)
free agent possibilities: Patrick Beverley (UFA)

Celtics
F: Brown
F: Morris? Ojeleye
C: Horford? Williams
G: Paul, Rozier
G: Harden,

Celtics would still have a young player in Jaylen Brown who they can build around or trade.
Tatum had a down second season and playoffs but just turned 21.
Hayward's contract is big but shorter than either Harden's or Paul's.

Celtics fan here. In a vacuum i don't dislike that deal. The problem being that there may be bad blood between cp3 and harden, they would need to be split up, with perhaps cp3 sent to a third team like suns or lakers
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,571
And1: 401
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#24 » by texasholdem » Sat Jun 1, 2019 4:00 am

Darthlukey wrote:
texasholdem wrote:If Boston fails to get Anthony Davis and Kyrie leaves as expected...

Harden + Paul to Boston for Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart and Aron Baynes.

Rockets
F: Tatum, House? Green?
F: Tucker, Faried?
C: Capela, Baynes
G: Gordon, Smart
G: Hayward, Rivers?
undrafted possibilities: Corey Davis, Jr. (UH)
free agent possibilities: Patrick Beverley (UFA)

Celtics
F: Brown
F: Morris? Ojeleye
C: Horford? Williams
G: Paul, Rozier
G: Harden,

Celtics would still have a young player in Jaylen Brown who they can build around or trade.
Tatum had a down second season and playoffs but just turned 21.
Hayward's contract is big but shorter than either Harden's or Paul's.

Celtics fan here. In a vacuum i don't dislike that deal. The problem being that there may be bad blood between cp3 and harden, they would need to be split up, with perhaps cp3 sent to a third team like suns or lakers


YesI made that trade suggestion 2 weeks ago before the story came out this week about harden and Paul fighting during and after game 6. In light of that this obviously wouldn't work.

Who had a more disappointing season Boston or Houston? Both teams went to the conference finals last year. This year both finished 4th in their conference and swept their first round series then lost to the #1 seed in the second round.

But basically the crux of this deal was Harden at 30 for Tatum at 21-22 years old.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
User avatar
red96
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,815
And1: 2,055
Joined: Oct 09, 2008
Location: Where hope is still alive.

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#25 » by red96 » Sat Jun 1, 2019 4:40 am

I get guys are down, but this is the best era of Rockets basketball since Hakeem. Some of yall act like yall miss the Maloney, Francis, and Kevin Martin era's. Hakeem was older, had more down seasons, and was with Houston longer than Harden when he finally brought home the gold. It took the Warriors 40 years to get where they are. WTH is wrong with yall?
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
-baki "the Rockets fan"
Darthlukey
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,255
And1: 645
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
         

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#26 » by Darthlukey » Sat Jun 1, 2019 4:44 am

texasholdem wrote:
Darthlukey wrote:
texasholdem wrote:If Boston fails to get Anthony Davis and Kyrie leaves as expected...

Harden + Paul to Boston for Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart and Aron Baynes.

Rockets
F: Tatum, House? Green?
F: Tucker, Faried?
C: Capela, Baynes
G: Gordon, Smart
G: Hayward, Rivers?
undrafted possibilities: Corey Davis, Jr. (UH)
free agent possibilities: Patrick Beverley (UFA)

Celtics
F: Brown
F: Morris? Ojeleye
C: Horford? Williams
G: Paul, Rozier
G: Harden,

Celtics would still have a young player in Jaylen Brown who they can build around or trade.
Tatum had a down second season and playoffs but just turned 21.
Hayward's contract is big but shorter than either Harden's or Paul's.

Celtics fan here. In a vacuum i don't dislike that deal. The problem being that there may be bad blood between cp3 and harden, they would need to be split up, with perhaps cp3 sent to a third team like suns or lakers


YesI made that trade suggestion 2 weeks ago before the story came out this week about harden and Paul fighting during and after game 6. In light of that this obviously wouldn't work.

Who had a more disappointing season Boston or Houston? Both teams went to the conference finals last year. This year both finished 4th in their conference and swept their first round series then lost to the #1 seed in the second round.

But basically the crux of this deal was Harden at 30 for Tatum at 21-22 years old.

As a Celtics fan, I think ours was worse. Absolute mess of chemistry. You guys lost to gsw, which is not unexpected, but you lost in the 2nd round instead of the wcf.
User avatar
trending
Sophomore
Posts: 229
And1: 138
Joined: Apr 20, 2019
Location: midland, ontario
   

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#27 » by trending » Sat Jun 1, 2019 8:14 am

is there anything the raptors can offer ? can he play any other positions ?
theedgeam.com every saturday night
Detroit Pistons 2020 east conference champions.
Darthlukey
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,255
And1: 645
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
         

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#28 » by Darthlukey » Sat Jun 1, 2019 9:49 am

texasholdem wrote:
Darthlukey wrote:
texasholdem wrote:If Boston fails to get Anthony Davis and Kyrie leaves as expected...

Harden + Paul to Boston for Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart and Aron Baynes.

Rockets
F: Tatum, House? Green?
F: Tucker, Faried?
C: Capela, Baynes
G: Gordon, Smart
G: Hayward, Rivers?
undrafted possibilities: Corey Davis, Jr. (UH)
free agent possibilities: Patrick Beverley (UFA)

Celtics
F: Brown
F: Morris? Ojeleye
C: Horford? Williams
G: Paul, Rozier
G: Harden,

Celtics would still have a young player in Jaylen Brown who they can build around or trade.
Tatum had a down second season and playoffs but just turned 21.
Hayward's contract is big but shorter than either Harden's or Paul's.

Celtics fan here. In a vacuum i don't dislike that deal. The problem being that there may be bad blood between cp3 and harden, they would need to be split up, with perhaps cp3 sent to a third team like suns or lakers


YesI made that trade suggestion 2 weeks ago before the story came out this week about harden and Paul fighting during and after game 6. In light of that this obviously wouldn't work.

Who had a more disappointing season Boston or Houston? Both teams went to the conference finals last year. This year both finished 4th in their conference and swept their first round series then lost to the #1 seed in the second round.

But basically the crux of this deal was Harden at 30 for Tatum at 21-22 years old.

If both teams were deadset on shaking things up, I would be keen on some sort of capella for horford derivative. Al gives rockets a great team defender and shooter at the 5. Celtics get younger, though would require a revamped offence
User avatar
red96
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,815
And1: 2,055
Joined: Oct 09, 2008
Location: Where hope is still alive.

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#29 » by red96 » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:50 pm

Darthlukey wrote:
texasholdem wrote:
Darthlukey wrote:Celtics fan here. In a vacuum i don't dislike that deal. The problem being that there may be bad blood between cp3 and harden, they would need to be split up, with perhaps cp3 sent to a third team like suns or lakers


YesI made that trade suggestion 2 weeks ago before the story came out this week about harden and Paul fighting during and after game 6. In light of that this obviously wouldn't work.

Who had a more disappointing season Boston or Houston? Both teams went to the conference finals last year. This year both finished 4th in their conference and swept their first round series then lost to the #1 seed in the second round.

But basically the crux of this deal was Harden at 30 for Tatum at 21-22 years old.

If both teams were deadset on shaking things up, I would be keen on some sort of capella for horford derivative. Al gives rockets a great team defender and shooter at the 5. Celtics get younger, though would require a revamped offence

Capela for Horford is a no-brainer for Boston. Capela is much younger, $10 million cheaper, and is locked into a good contract. While Horford is on the decline and could leave after next season. Horford's superior shooting doesn't close that gap.

I dont think the Rockets want another old man in their rotation playing heavy minutes, so he and Paul can wear suits, watching each others games waste away. While Capela will still be sprinting down court, catching alleys, and playing well against every team but GS.
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
-baki "the Rockets fan"
Darthlukey
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,255
And1: 645
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
         

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#30 » by Darthlukey » Mon Jun 3, 2019 8:09 pm

red96 wrote:
Darthlukey wrote:
texasholdem wrote:
YesI made that trade suggestion 2 weeks ago before the story came out this week about harden and Paul fighting during and after game 6. In light of that this obviously wouldn't work.

Who had a more disappointing season Boston or Houston? Both teams went to the conference finals last year. This year both finished 4th in their conference and swept their first round series then lost to the #1 seed in the second round.

But basically the crux of this deal was Harden at 30 for Tatum at 21-22 years old.

If both teams were deadset on shaking things up, I would be keen on some sort of capella for horford derivative. Al gives rockets a great team defender and shooter at the 5. Celtics get younger, though would require a revamped offence

Capela for Horford is a no-brainer for Boston. Capela is much younger, $10 million cheaper, and is locked into a good contract. While Horford is on the decline and could leave after next season. Horford's superior shooting doesn't close that gap.

I dont think the Rockets want another old man in their rotation playing heavy minutes, so he and Paul can wear suits, watching each others games waste away. While Capela will still be sprinting down court, catching alleys, and playing well against every team but GS.

All valid points. On the flip side though, the fact there is only 1 year left on that contract is possibly a good thing to help with luxury tax issues. Tough to replace him if he leaves though
User avatar
red96
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,815
And1: 2,055
Joined: Oct 09, 2008
Location: Where hope is still alive.

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#31 » by red96 » Mon Jun 3, 2019 9:51 pm

Darthlukey wrote:
red96 wrote:
Darthlukey wrote:If both teams were deadset on shaking things up, I would be keen on some sort of capella for horford derivative. Al gives rockets a great team defender and shooter at the 5. Celtics get younger, though would require a revamped offence

Capela for Horford is a no-brainer for Boston. Capela is much younger, $10 million cheaper, and is locked into a good contract. While Horford is on the decline and could leave after next season. Horford's superior shooting doesn't close that gap.

I dont think the Rockets want another old man in their rotation playing heavy minutes, so he and Paul can wear suits, watching each others games waste away. While Capela will still be sprinting down court, catching alleys, and playing well against every team but GS.

All valid points. On the flip side though, the fact there is only 1 year left on that contract is possibly a good thing to help with luxury tax issues. Tough to replace him if he leaves though

Exactly. Even without his salary, the Rockets would still have limited cap space, if any, to bring in any difference maker. I wouldn't be surprised if Capela was clearly better than Horford next season. Father time is undefeated.
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
-baki "the Rockets fan"
Darthlukey
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,255
And1: 645
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
         

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#32 » by Darthlukey » Tue Jun 4, 2019 12:54 am

red96 wrote:
Darthlukey wrote:
red96 wrote:Capela for Horford is a no-brainer for Boston. Capela is much younger, $10 million cheaper, and is locked into a good contract. While Horford is on the decline and could leave after next season. Horford's superior shooting doesn't close that gap.

I dont think the Rockets want another old man in their rotation playing heavy minutes, so he and Paul can wear suits, watching each others games waste away. While Capela will still be sprinting down court, catching alleys, and playing well against every team but GS.

All valid points. On the flip side though, the fact there is only 1 year left on that contract is possibly a good thing to help with luxury tax issues. Tough to replace him if he leaves though

Exactly. Even without his salary, the Rockets would still have limited cap space, if any, to bring in any difference maker. I wouldn't be surprised if Capela was clearly better than Horford next season. Father time is undefeated.

And the warriors may look very different. If durant leaves, the ability to totally nullify Cap does get reduced a little
YoungMoney23
Starter
Posts: 2,197
And1: 123
Joined: May 06, 2007
Location: Chandler, Arizona
         

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#33 » by YoungMoney23 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 12:20 am

Darthlukey wrote:
red96 wrote:
Darthlukey wrote:All valid points. On the flip side though, the fact there is only 1 year left on that contract is possibly a good thing to help with luxury tax issues. Tough to replace him if he leaves though

Exactly. Even without his salary, the Rockets would still have limited cap space, if any, to bring in any difference maker. I wouldn't be surprised if Capela was clearly better than Horford next season. Father time is undefeated.

And the warriors may look very different. If durant leaves, the ability to totally nullify Cap does get reduced a little


Morey doesn't let cap space stop him, he creates it
A Blog on the unsolved - http://coldcasefiles.wordpress.com/
User avatar
inquisitive
RealGM
Posts: 16,683
And1: 2,617
Joined: Aug 27, 2010

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#34 » by inquisitive » Sun Jun 9, 2019 9:04 pm

Cp3 for the all the lakers role players
KARD "You n Me " Mnet Countdown
www.youtube.com/watch?v=77b3zg3OhgI
User avatar
ken6199
Forum Mod - Rockets
Forum Mod - Rockets
Posts: 10,478
And1: 13,688
Joined: Jan 05, 2015
Location: St James' Park
   

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#35 » by ken6199 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:45 am

This is nuts. I wouldn't trade Harden 1on1 for anyone. Curry can't carry us, KD is gone, Kawhi needs load management, Lebeon is aging, Giannis maybe but idk, what if he never develops his shooting?

Harden right now is in his prime and it looks like he is going to improve further. I know it sounds crazy, but I do believe he will pick up some new skills this summer. The guy is just simply too talented.

No trade involves Harden is a good trade for us. NONE.
RealGM loves you, Melissa.
texasholdem
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,571
And1: 401
Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#36 » by texasholdem » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:43 pm

ken6199 wrote:This is nuts. I wouldn't trade Harden 1on1 for anyone. Curry can't carry us, KD is gone, Kawhi needs load management, Lebeon is aging, Giannis maybe but idk, what if he never develops his shooting?

Harden right now is in his prime and it looks like he is going to improve further. I know it sounds crazy, but I do believe he will pick up some new skills this summer. The guy is just simply too talented.

No trade involves Harden is a good trade for us. NONE.


Harden is a great regular season player but has had some bad playoff games when it really counted.

I just hope we don't end up like Tmac situation where we waited too late to trade him to get enough value back.
Harden is still a work-in-progress. He can score, but he can't help his teammate that much - Yao Ming
User avatar
ken6199
Forum Mod - Rockets
Forum Mod - Rockets
Posts: 10,478
And1: 13,688
Joined: Jan 05, 2015
Location: St James' Park
   

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#37 » by ken6199 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:20 pm

texasholdem wrote:
ken6199 wrote:This is nuts. I wouldn't trade Harden 1on1 for anyone. Curry can't carry us, KD is gone, Kawhi needs load management, Lebeon is aging, Giannis maybe but idk, what if he never develops his shooting?

Harden right now is in his prime and it looks like he is going to improve further. I know it sounds crazy, but I do believe he will pick up some new skills this summer. The guy is just simply too talented.

No trade involves Harden is a good trade for us. NONE.


Harden is a great regular season player but has had some bad playoff games when it really counted.

I just hope we don't end up like Tmac situation where we waited too late to trade him to get enough value back.


I don't deny those bad playoff games, however considering the amount of playoff games played, or the good playoff games he had, that's really not much. It's a combination of Harden's bad games being really really bad (e.g. game 6, 11 TO game, etc) + his bad games not getting overlooked like Curry's because he had the others to save the game for him (Harden had once, that Clippers game 6) + media narratives of Harden being a playoff choker also killed him.

Harden's playoff stats, both basic and advanced, are top tier. I think if you list him as a league top 5 - 10 player, or 3 - 5, he did what he was supposed to do, which is to win every single playoff series against a lower seed except for 2018 WCF without Paul for G6 and G7.

We waited too long to trade Tmac is primarily because of his health went down, not because he became a worse talent or his play went down. Tmac's body started to break down 2-3 seasons after we traded for him. Even in those 2 Utah series you can visibly see Tmac struggle physically, and that was even during his prime in Houston. Harden has been through 7 seasons of grinding with us, all as THE guy with a huge load he has had to carry, and so far he looked durable AF. Barring a series career altering injury, I think his game will age pretty well, so we shouldn't have this "Tmac convern" on him.
RealGM loves you, Melissa.
User avatar
RaoulDuke79
General Manager
Posts: 8,655
And1: 1,571
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
Location: purchasing stunning amounts of pudding.

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#38 » by RaoulDuke79 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:46 pm

ken6199 wrote:I don't deny those bad playoff games, however considering the amount of playoff games played, or the good playoff games he had, that's really not much. It's a combination of Harden's bad games being really really bad (e.g. game 6, 11 TO game, etc) + his bad games not getting overlooked like Curry's because he had the others to save the game for him (Harden had once, that Clippers game 6) + media narratives of Harden being a playoff choker also killed him.

Harden's playoff stats, both basic and advanced, are top tier. I think if you list him as a league top 5 - 10 player, or 3 - 5, he did what he was supposed to do, which is to win every single playoff series against a lower seed except for 2018 WCF without Paul for G6 and G7.

We waited too long to trade Tmac is primarily because of his health went down, not because he became a worse talent or his play went down. Tmac's body started to break down 2-3 seasons after we traded for him. Even in those 2 Utah series you can visibly see Tmac struggle physically, and that was even during his prime in Houston. Harden has been through 7 seasons of grinding with us, all as THE guy with a huge load he has had to carry, and so far he looked durable AF. Barring a series career altering injury, I think his game will age pretty well, so we shouldn't have this "Tmac convern" on him.


Holy tits, it really has been 7 seasons already hasn't it? Time flies by so fast...now I really feel old.

:cry:

Good post, btw.
We watched the tragedy unfold. We did as we were told, we bought and sold. It was the greatest show on Earth...but then it was over.
User avatar
ken6199
Forum Mod - Rockets
Forum Mod - Rockets
Posts: 10,478
And1: 13,688
Joined: Jan 05, 2015
Location: St James' Park
   

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#39 » by ken6199 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:45 am

You don't say. The man covered with beard all over his face might make you think he hasn't aged a bit lol but he's 7 years older.

That was the year I got work relocated to Houston which explained my unhealthy harden fandom (been a Rockets fan from EU since 94 though). You look at Harden today, the stuff he is doing on the court, and you look at him 7 years ago, and the same for Curry/KD/Westbrook, it's amazing by how much this guy has improved.
RealGM loves you, Melissa.
User avatar
moofs
General Manager
Posts: 8,076
And1: 538
Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Location: "if the warriors win the title this season ill tattoo their logo in my di ck" -- 000001
Contact:

Re: Harden + ? For ? 

Post#40 » by moofs » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:45 am

red96 wrote:I get guys are down, but this is the best era of Rockets basketball since Hakeem. Some of yall act like yall miss the Maloney, Francis, and Kevin Martin era's. Hakeem was older, had more down seasons, and was with Houston longer than Harden when he finally brought home the gold. It took the Warriors 40 years to get where they are. WTH is wrong with yall?


I get this argument, and don’t disagree that Harden right now is a top 5 player, indisputably.

My point is about timelines and contracts and the other indisputable fact that he’s 30, Paul is 34, Tucker is 34, and we’re on the cap.

If Morey doesn’t figure out a way to get AD or Kahwi here, and that’d EASILY be his greatest magic trick yet, how do we build a team in 1 year around 32 year old Harden in 2 years when CP’s contract becomes an expiring deal?

Maybe I don’t know all the details, but that one really seems like his first real whiff, and it couldn’t have happened at a worse time, really.

Texasholdem is clearly for a tank-and-draft game. I don’t know anything about this year’s draft yet, but that’s ALWAYS highly risky.
Morey 2020.

Q:How are they experts when they're always wrong?
A:Ask a stock market analyst or your financial advisor

Return to Houston Rockets