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Rockets vs. Celtics

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Post#361 » by nyk_buc » Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:20 am

MaxRider wrote:Yao's playing time is up but he's not as effective as last year


it has nothing to do with it.

he can't get good position even in the first quarter. this has happened ever since the utah series.

even in his best game v. the spurs this year where he was mighty clutch, the shots he hit were FALLAWAYS.

he just has to get position. i don't know why he can't get it.
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Post#362 » by awhite » Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:45 am

I agree that he's not getting the same position. Some of it might be that it seems like opposing centers are being called for even less dislodging fouls than in previous seasons (and it isn't as if they've stopped pushing him). Some of it might also be that Adelman doesn't want him to waste too much time on positioning if it isn't there initially, and does run as many screens for him across the lane. We don't really know what Yao's being told to do.

I certainly would like to see him deep in the pain more often. Especially now that he's gotten dunk-happy.
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Post#363 » by nyk_buc » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:03 am

awhite wrote:I agree that he's not getting the same position. Some of it might be that it seems like opposing centers are being called for even less dislodging fouls than in previous seasons (and it isn't as if they've stopped pushing him). Some of it might also be that Adelman doesn't want him to waste too much time on positioning if it isn't there initially, and does run as many screens for him across the lane. We don't really know what Yao's being told to do.

I certainly would like to see him deep in the pain more often. Especially now that he's gotten dunk-happy.


that's a lame excuse. we all know yao gets pushed. we all see it. but ALL good scoring big men get that. shaq gets hacked on more than yao ever does but he fights back in subtle ways that would punish his defenders. yao has to do that.

and c'mon ADELMAN tells him not to fight for position? when ur coach tells a big man to post up, naturally all big men should think get ball deep and dunk.

yao just needs to be stronger.
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Post#364 » by Grunt » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:14 am

awhite wrote:Yao's jumper has been shaky all season, and it's been nonexistent since he sprained his right thumb. It's unfortunate that his offense isn't flowing, because I actually think he's really elevated the rest of his game.

Can anyone recall a single Yao layup off the glass since he called the team soft a while ago? I can't. He's been dunking it with authority whenever he's in position to do so...

+1

Yao is in somewhat of a shootingslump - that happens, its annoying, but you can't do much about it, except for making sure you dunk everything close to the basket.

I think Yao looks less hesitant every game, he reacts faster in the post and doesn't wait for the doubles, and at time just attacks the doubles! If only his jumper would come back around, then I'd say he has improved this year.

I like the way he picks when to run and when not to... its fine with me that he walks up the floor now and then, as it is clearly not an attitude problem with Yao, but a matter of preserving energy (Bill Russel, Shaq and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did the same).

The way the offense slows down around T-Mac is my main concern, don't think he fits in to the Adelmand offense so far. But the game against Boston has to leave people around here with a feeling of hope.

No, the Rockets didn't get the job done... but yes, they were right there, and they are playing their youngsters in Head and Brooks. If Yaos biggest problem is his jumper not falling, then the he is in good shape, that will come back around.
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Post#365 » by CuttingEdge » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:13 am

jackeyok wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Yao's numbers won't go up that much after T-mac.But I think he will be more efficient than right now.We still have time .and this team still mix the line up.without T-mac,we still have 9men rotation.that's deep.Once T-mc come back,we're fine.


I agree, Yao didn't have so much of a subpar game. How about those successful pick n rolls and putting the pressure on both Pollard and Perkins to eventually fouling out. Yao did an excellent job of trying to help out on defensive assignments that the other Rockets should of covered which left room for KG to score at the end. It was more about terh incompetence of the other Rockets that didn't help Yao. Sometimes it seems that the entire team expects Yao to do everything. Switch defense when they are right there to do it themselves, come on? Yao is a force but not when you over work him to the point of exhaustion. Yao has to do way too many things that the other guys just can't do. Some of the garbage players that don't do there part are guys like Luther Head leaving Yao to do more. Yao at the end would rather give up the KG jumpshots in an effort to protect teh paint towards the end. I thought the team did put in a effort in the comeback and eventual lead but not enought support at the end which costed the Rockets the game.

This is an incompetent team and Yao/Bonzi deserves a better supporting cast.
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Post#366 » by dontel » Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:52 am

yao kinda reminds of jermaine o neal. i dunno, jermaine's having a so-so season AFAIK
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Post#367 » by jove9 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:22 pm

awhite wrote:I agree that he's not getting the same position. Some of it might be that it seems like opposing centers are being called for even less dislodging fouls than in previous seasons (and it isn't as if they've stopped pushing him). Some of it might also be that Adelman doesn't want him to waste too much time on positioning if it isn't there initially, and does run as many screens for him across the lane. We don't really know what Yao's being told to do.

I certainly would like to see him deep in the pain more often. Especially now that he's gotten dunk-happy.


Me too. More pain, please.

On another note, if the league did not allow zone defenses Yao would be averaging 30 pts a game. Neither Dream nor Shaq (in his prime) nor Ewing nor Robinson had to deal with the double and triple teams before the entry pass. Either way, we should be content that Yao is getting similar numbers with more defensive attention.
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Post#368 » by moofs » Thu Jan 3, 2008 2:30 pm

compucomp wrote:I expect Yao to at least duplicate his production from last year. It was even an injury year. This year he has gotten significantly worse. He is playing more minutes, but he is producing less in more minutes.

I had hope when Yao came back in the fourth that he would deliver the game. I should have known that for whatever reason it just isn't going to happen for him this year. After 31 games I have come to the conclusion that this trash is what we are going to see from him this year. It's a lost year for him and a very down season. I believe it's Adelman's fault, but that doesn't change the fact that Yao is a huge underachiever this year. I don't see him coming out of it.

There's always next year. Maybe he'll get back to where he was.


You're looking at one player. Furthermore, it sounds like you're looking primarily at points and rebounds. Not saying you're necessarily wrong, but it really doesn't sound like you're considering much other than surface stats of one guy.
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Post#369 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 2:50 pm

fnasser wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




that is ridiculous. Yao is not having a horrible season at all . u have no idea what youre talkin about. go through his stats. his points are down, thats simply becuase were beginning to play with more options like bonzi and scola and head .
yes i know his minutes are up but since his turnover and pf per game hasnt increased then that is a good sign. the only stat down is pts and fg%, all the others are up escpecially rebounds and assists. dont go basing this a bad season based on a PER and a fg%


I've been Yao's fan even before he came into the league. This is probably the worst season of his career, modulo expectation and previous performance.

Really, I've tried to give him excuses for his putrid performances, but I'm done with that. He is going to put up this garbage for the rest of the year. I think Adelman's scheme is to blame but he is playing horribly, no doubt about that.

He was on a path towards a career very similar to Ewing's coming into this year. Right now he is dangerously close to devolving into a J. O'Neal/SAR/Juwan Howard type inefficient 20/10 player who puts up empty numbers.

Always next year... I hope he will recover his dominant performance next November. His career still has 4-5 good years left.
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Post#370 » by jove9 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 2:54 pm

There's just no reasoning with some people.

Ok. Have it your way.

Yao is having the worst season of his career. Even his rookie season was better!
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Post#371 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 3:03 pm

jove9 wrote:There's just no reasoning with some people.

Ok. Have it your way.

Yao is having the worst season of his career. Even his rookie season was better!


His rookie season was better because nobody expected him to come in and do anything. They thought he was a poor man's Shawn Bradley. In his rookie season he showed everyone that he had promise to be a very good center in the league, while everyone in the media was busy making racist Chinese jokes about how this guy was going to get owned. His rookie year was a success and exceeded expectations.

This year he started the season as the best center in the NBA, was healthy, and was expected to continue that performance. Well what have we seen? Borrowing Bonzi's term, "trash." His trashy stats speak for themselves. The team is not winning. If he gets abused by Dwight Howard tomorrow the fall will be complete.

Again, coming into this season he was on the way to a career like Ewing's. Right now he looks positively like Jermaine O'Neal, puts up 20/10, but inefficiently and is not dominant. He has taken many steps back.

Next year he might go back to where he was last year. That's the beauty in sports, there's always next year.
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Post#372 » by jove9 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 3:13 pm

You're misquoting Bonzi. He didn't say Yao was trash, he said Adelman's lineup in the 4th was trash.

Why do you want him to have a career like Ewing's?

Ewing averaged 21 and 9 for his career (and didn't win a title). I'd say Yao could do better. He's already at 18 and 9.

BTW, Jermaine is 14 and 7 for his career and only averaged 20 and 10 twice.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/patrick_ewing/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/yao_ming/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/index.html
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Post#373 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 3:33 pm

jove9 wrote:You're misquoting Bonzi. He didn't say Yao was trash, he said Adelman's lineup in the 4th was trash.

Why do you want him to have a career like Ewing's?

Ewing averaged 21 and 9 for his career (and didn't win a title). I'd say Yao could do better. He's already at 18 and 9.

BTW, Jermaine is 14 and 7 for his career and only averaged 20 and 10 twice.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/patrick_ewing/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/yao_ming/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/index.html


I was borrowing Bonzi's term. I'd call Yao's performance trash anyway but since Bonzi made it his buzzword I have to cite him.

Yao was not buried on the bench for 4 years like JO, and who knows how well he'll do at the end of his career. Career overall stats are a bit misleading.

Look at Yao last year, and Yao this year. If you took Yao's stats last year they would be close to a year in Ewing's prime. If you take Yao's stats this year, they are very close to JO in his "prime". He has taken steps back and it has not been pretty.
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Post#374 » by Grunt » Thu Jan 3, 2008 4:05 pm

compucomp, I dont see how Dwight Howard has anything to do with Yaos season!

compucomp wrote:
This year he started the season as the best center in the NBA, was healthy, and was expected to continue that performance. Well what have we seen? Borrowing Bonzi's term, "trash." His trashy stats speak for themselves. The team is not winning. If he gets abused by Dwight Howard tomorrow the fall will be complete.

Again, coming into this season he was on the way to a career like Ewing's. Right now he looks positively like Jermaine O'Neal, puts up 20/10, but inefficiently and is not dominant. He has taken many steps back.

Last night the Rockets beat the Celtics for three quarters on their floor, sure it doesn't cut it, but Yao still carried the team dispite his shooting slump.

You can be dissapointed with this team, as they just keep loosing at too high a clip. But you cannot say that Yao is having a lousy season and that his 20/10 is empty, worthless statpadding stats.

Yao played a very strong game yesterday, only problem being his low FG%. All players, stars, superstars and scrubs go through shooting slumps, it doesn't all of a sudden make Yao a bad player!
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Post#375 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:26 pm

Grunt wrote:compucomp, I dont see how Dwight Howard has anything to do with Yaos season!

compucomp wrote:
This year he started the season as the best center in the NBA, was healthy, and was expected to continue that performance. Well what have we seen? Borrowing Bonzi's term, "trash." His trashy stats speak for themselves. The team is not winning. If he gets abused by Dwight Howard tomorrow the fall will be complete.

Again, coming into this season he was on the way to a career like Ewing's. Right now he looks positively like Jermaine O'Neal, puts up 20/10, but inefficiently and is not dominant. He has taken many steps back.

Last night the Rockets beat the Celtics for three quarters on their floor, sure it doesn't cut it, but Yao still carried the team dispite his shooting slump.

You can be dissapointed with this team, as they just keep loosing at too high a clip. But you cannot say that Yao is having a lousy season and that his 20/10 is empty, worthless statpadding stats.

Yao played a very strong game yesterday, only problem being his low FG%. All players, stars, superstars and scrubs go through shooting slumps, it doesn't all of a sudden make Yao a bad player!


No, Yao did not play well yesterday. He hasn't played well all season. His FG% is at a career low. His efficiency is at its worst since his rookie season. He is producing less in more minutes and looking like trash doing it. If he gets dominated by Howard tomorrow, it will only be an exclamation point on how horrible he has been this season. I truly wish that doesn't happen but at this point I'm resigned to that possibility.

Yao has downgraded from Ewing to Jermaine O'Neal.

There's always next year. Maybe he'll play better next November. Yao still has about 4-5 good years left in him. But this is a lost season for him. I won't hold my breath waiting for him to play better this year because he probably won't.

BTW don't bother calling me a Yao hater, everyone here knows I might be Yao's biggest fan on the board. It's just realism talking.
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Post#376 » by jove9 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:34 pm

compucomp wrote:It's just realism talking.


Nothing you've said is realistic. Why pretend?

Oh wait... I'm supposed to be with you...

Yao is having his worst year ever!
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Post#377 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:38 pm

jove9 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Nothing you've said is realistic. Why pretend?

Oh wait... I'm supposed to be with you...

Yao is having his worst year ever!


I guess you must not think Yao is a very good player if you think this is a decent season. If Yao is indeed only as good as Jermaine O'Neal, this is indeed a decent season. I know he is better than that, he showed us last season. That's why I am disappointed and think this is the worst year of his career.
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Post#378 » by jove9 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:55 pm

I never said this is a decent season, and in an earlier post I mentioned that he is better than Ewing AND Jermaine.

I don't see where you're getting a "this is a good season" argument from what I've said.

I'm disappointed that the team isn't playing as expected, but Yao is not having the worst season of his career. It's not Yao's fault that we suck.

...I mean...

He IS having the worst season of his career. You're right! It IS Yao's fault!
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Post#379 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:06 pm

jove9 wrote:I never said this is a decent season, and in an earlier post I mentioned that he is better than Ewing AND Jermaine.

I don't see where you're getting a "this is a good season" argument from what I've said.

I'm disappointed that the team isn't playing as expected, but Yao is not having the worst season of his career. It's not Yao's fault that we suck.

...I mean...

He IS having the worst season of his career. You're right! It IS Yao's fault!


Worst season of his career may be an overstatement, fine. I suppose JO is/was still a very good player and to play like JO should not be considered terrible.

But my main point still stands, that this is a very down year for Yao. I feel it is a lost year because I just don't think he'll recapture that dominance. I'm already looking to next year. It's been a down year for Yao, for McGrady, for the whole team (except maybe Bonzi who might as well have a dollar sign tattooed on his chest)

Edit: Yeah, bad typo there.
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Post#380 » by jove9 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:12 pm

You mean, "overstatement," right?

Anyway, you're right about the team... and Bonzi.

Or is it "Bon$i"?

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