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Rockets vs. Celtics

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Post#381 » by RoxFan08 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:58 pm

jove9 wrote:You mean, "overstatement," right?

Anyway, you're right about the team... and Bonzi.

Or is it "Bon$i"?


Lets not forget Ra$hard Lewi$
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Post#382 » by nyk_buc » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:41 pm

compucomp wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



No, Yao did not play well yesterday. He hasn't played well all season. His FG% is at a career low. His efficiency is at its worst since his rookie season. He is producing less in more minutes and looking like trash doing it. If he gets dominated by Howard tomorrow, it will only be an exclamation point on how horrible he has been this season. I truly wish that doesn't happen but at this point I'm resigned to that possibility.

Yao has downgraded from Ewing to Jermaine O'Neal.

There's always next year. Maybe he'll play better next November. Yao still has about 4-5 good years left in him. But this is a lost season for him. I won't hold my breath waiting for him to play better this year because he probably won't.

BTW don't bother calling me a Yao hater, everyone here knows I might be Yao's biggest fan on the board. It's just realism talking.


no, it's your stupidity talking. this year yao has to do a lot more and we simply are seeing that he's not a franchise player. your expectations are just too high. yao is still playing at an all-star level. he was only a superstar last yr for stretches. but again, superstars perform in the playoffs b/c they exceed their reg. season's performance and yao hasn't done that.

if we put it in perspective and see yao as an all-star, he's doing fine. just need to work on some stuff but every player can get better as the season goes aong.

but your sarcasm is easily read b/c you're the same person who said tmac and houston are covering up something "behind-the-scenes" when it's as simple as he's injured.
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Post#383 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:51 pm

nyk_buc wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



no, it's your stupidity talking. this year yao has to do a lot more and we simply are seeing that he's not a franchise player. your expectations are just too high. yao is still playing at an all-star level. he was only a superstar last yr for stretches. but again, superstars perform in the playoffs b/c they exceed their reg. season's performance and yao hasn't done that.

if we put it in perspective and see yao as an all-star, he's doing fine. just need to work on some stuff but every player can get better as the season goes aong.

but your sarcasm is easily read b/c you're the same person who said tmac and houston are covering up something "behind-the-scenes" when it's as simple as he's injured.


He looked like a franchise player last year when McGrady was out, he looked like a franchise player and a superstar all year. 25/9/2/2, you could do a lot worse for a franchise player. Like making Jermaine O'Neal your franchise player.

That's the thing with you. Since you are a Yao hater and don't think Yao is any good you think he's doing OK. You're fine with J. O'Neal type production out of him. I am not. I know he is capable of more. You treat last year as if it has vanished. I still wish he can get back to that level. Maybe next year.

I would not be surprised if Keith Jones were pressured by Morey to make up some injury so that the trade rumors would die down. For the record McGrady is not a franchise player nor a superstar player either by your standard; it's been 3 years since he's been one.

Sarcasm? What?
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Post#384 » by nyk_buc » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:14 pm

[quote="compucomp"][/quote]

yao put up #s last yr when tmac was out but the team LOST. and tmac was out for only 10 games. franchise players don't just play superstar level for 10 games. so moot point. tmac put up #s in his last yr in orlando but that was his worst season EVER. #s don't mean jack if your team couldn't even beat a struggling warriors or blazers earlier in the season last yr.

and jermaine o'neal has never had a season as good as the season yao is having THIS YEAR. jermaine o'neal was never more than a decent all-star. he would never make the all-star team if he was in the west. and he would never make the all-star team now. what are you smoking with this kind of comparison?? yao can play better of course, but he needs another all-star with him. the role players have stepped up for yao like they did last yr for tmac, but he's not performing like a franchise player b/c he's not. he's an all-star. what's bad about that?

and i'm a yao hater? maybe you're just a yao lover that thinks yao can be superhuman. it's like tmac lovers expect tmac to be a superstar right now when he can't. our stars are not superstars. tmac CAN BE if he never gets injured. but at this stage of his career, that's not the case. we've tried to make yao the centerpiece of this team whenever tmac has been out this year and he has not performed consistently. in fact he has been worse. that's not a sign of a superstar/franchise player. that's why i have been preaching TRADE BOTH AND REBUILD. if you're a true rox fan, u know these 2 guys will never be able to lead us to a championship.

and your STUPIDITY rises again with a NEW THEORY that you now think of: keith jones is pressured by morey to make up injury rumors. no, they have ACTUAL TESTS. LICENSED DOCTORS (if lied would have their licenses revoked) performed the tests and confirmed the injury.

keith jones is a trainer, not a doctor.

and you're right tmac is not a franchise player or a superstar anymore like i said above for the past 3 yrs b/c of injuries. injuries can do that to u. but when he's healthy, he is. but at this stage of his career, we can only pray that he can be healthy.

yao's at the prime of his career. he's healthy, improves his stamina... so no excuses.

yao has always been a very very good player. the moment i knew yao is not a superstar was when he couldn't destroy okur 1-on-1 in the playoffs. when tmac was struggling MIGHTILY, that presented the stage for yao to prove that he was the superstar we all were waiting for by making that series his own and showing the world that he has arrived. instead, him and tmac both struggled mightily and prove how overrated both of them are.
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Post#385 » by DorfonCeltics » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:15 pm

I don't mean to get in the middle of your fight here but I wanted to add my two cents. As a Celtics fan who has only seen the Rockets play once or maybe twice other than last night's game, I thought Yao played great. He really made the Celtics defense have to focus on him. Hell he got both Perk and Pollard to foul out. We couldn't stop him on the pick and roll. I thought his defense was pretty solid too. I don't think Yao lost the game for the Rockets, I think KG won the game for the Celtics. Again, just my two cents. It was a great game to watch though and hopefully T-Mac is healthy for the March 18th game in Houston.
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Post#386 » by nyk_buc » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:19 pm

DorfonCeltics wrote:I don't mean to get in the middle of your fight here but I wanted to add my two cents. As a Celtics fan who has only seen the Rockets play once or maybe twice other than last night's game, I thought Yao played great. He really made the Celtics defense have to focus on him. Hell he got both Perk and Pollard to foul out. We couldn't stop him on the pick and roll. I thought his defense was pretty solid too. I don't think Yao lost the game for the Rockets, I think KG won the game for the Celtics. Again, just my two cents. It was a great game to watch though and hopefully T-Mac is healthy for the March 18th game in Houston.


nobody said yao is a bad player if you think the argument is about that. yao is a great all-star. and he's a great offensive player. the team is glad to have him. but we need to acknowledge his deficiencies and find better role players (since we're not trading any of our stars).

hopefully bonzi and scola will continue their play, along w/ brooks and head when tmac returns.
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Post#387 » by MaxRider » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:56 pm

our players need to learn how to play off of Yao
Alston/Battier/Head basically just spotting for 3 to spread the court (JVG's offense)
Wells tend to like to go 1-on-1
he needs to do some cutting
imo the others need to play their game when Yao got the ball in the low post
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Post#388 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 9:12 pm

Did you forget that Yao was player of the month in November last year and ignoring the game where he played 6 minutes because he got injured he put up 26.8/9.7/2.1/2.2 before the injury? McGrady was in a massive sh*thole, but Yao lead the team to a very respectable record, we were about 5 games above .500 when Yao was injured. Again you can do a LOT worse than this for a franchise player or a superstar.

I only want to see Yao produce like he was producing then. He's done it before, why shouldn't I expect to see him do it again? Even the overall 25/9.4/2/2 from last year is great production that he isn't sniffing this year.

I'm not giving Yao any excuses. I said "this is a lost year for him and maybe he'll do better next year." I personally believe that Adelman is largely at fault, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a dismal year for him.

Even when healthy McGrady is not a franchise player or a superstar by your definition. What was he doing out there against Utah? Do I need to really get into how he was contained by Derek Fisher? Was he injured for most of last year? No he wasn't.

You don't think Yao is capable of being a superstar, so his performance is fine. I disagree. His performance last year shows that he is capable but this year he has descended to Jermaine O'Neal level production. That's why I am very disappointed with him. Why can't I expect Yao to match his production from last year?
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Post#389 » by nyk_buc » Thu Jan 3, 2008 9:38 pm

compucomp wrote:Did you forget that Yao was player of the month in November last year and ignoring the game where he played 6 minutes because he got injured he put up 26.8/9.7/2.1/2.2 before the injury? McGrady was in a massive sh*thole, but Yao lead the team to a very respectable record, we were about 5 games above .500 when Yao was injured. Again you can do a LOT worse than this for a franchise player or a superstar.

I only want to see Yao produce like he was producing then. He's done it before, why shouldn't I expect to see him do it again? Even the overall 25/9.4/2/2 from last year is great production that he isn't sniffing this year.

I'm not giving Yao any excuses. I said "this is a lost year for him and maybe he'll do better next year." I personally believe that Adelman is largely at fault, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a dismal year for him.

Even when healthy McGrady is not a franchise player or a superstar by your definition. What was he doing out there against Utah? Do I need to really get into how he was contained by Derek Fisher? Was he injured for most of last year? No he wasn't.

You don't think Yao is capable of being a superstar, so his performance is fine. I disagree. His performance last year shows that he is capable but this year he has descended to Jermaine O'Neal level production. That's why I am very disappointed with him. Why can't I expect Yao to match his production from last year?


mac avg 32.1, 6.5, 5.5 in 02-03, do i expect him to do it again?
kobe avg 35.4 ppg in one year, do i expect him to do it again?

sometimes lower stats don't mean you're not doing it as well. kobe's stats are down all across the board but his team is WINNING. it's b/c his teammates have stepped up.

yao's stats were great last yr but that didn't mean he was a superstar either. redd had a great statistical year 2 yrs ago but nobody considered him more than a great all-star. ray allen was no more than a great all-star.

again, u LOOK AT STATS TOO DAMN MUCH. stats don't mean jack if in the grand scheme of things don't lead to wins.

yao avg 25 and 10 v. utah in the playoffs but was not very dominant at all.
tmac avg 25 and 7 v. utah but was not very dominant outside of 3 games.

those are "superstar-like" stats u can say, but are they really superstar performances by those 2 guys?

get a grip. u keep bringing up stats. yao can avg 25 and 11 this yr and if the team keeps playing this way, he's still not a superstar.

and please, stop comparing him to jermaine o'neal. yao is better than he ever was.
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Post#390 » by BaYBaller » Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:07 pm

nyk pretty much hit the nail on the head and I've been saying the same thing since this offense has started to turn around. Stats don't mean anything without the W, period. End of f'ing arguement. You're not a Rockets fan if you think otherwise.

All the elite teams have a balanced offense. TD, KG, etc. could put up monster stats every night if they wanted to but they don't for the betterment of the team. We've rode the T-Mac/Yao duo offense and it has gotten us nowhere, and management feels the same way with the Adelman hiring. To rag on Adelman to try to change the offensive culture of this club is both naive and short-sighted. Even if he fails, the gamble was worth it because the alternative would probably be another first-round exit.

This game is another example of that, they went away from what was working and tried to force it into Yao.
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Post#391 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:20 pm

BaYBaller wrote:nyk pretty much hit the nail on the head and I've been saying the same thing since this offense has started to turn around. Stats don't mean anything without the W, period. End of f'ing arguement. You're not a Rockets fan if you think otherwise.

All the elite teams have a balanced offense. TD, KG, etc. could put up monster stats every night if they wanted to but they don't for the betterment of the team. We've rode the T-Mac/Yao duo offense and it has gotten us nowhere, and management feels the same way with the Adelman hiring. To rag on Adelman to try to change the offensive culture of this club is both naive and short-sighted. Even if he fails, the gamble was worth it because the alternative would probably be another first-round exit.

This game is another example of that, they went away from what was working and tried to force it into Yao.


Yep, everyone on the team is underperforming except Bon$i, and we know why he is really motivated this year, and it's not because he desperately wants to see the team win. Great work by Adelman, huh?

By your standard there are about 5 superstars in the league. Kobe, Lebron, Wade, KG, and Duncan, and Wade would be very borderline right now. McGrady has NOT been a superstar since his first year here, if you refuse to consider what Yao did last year as superstar production.

Again, I want to rip Adelman's head off because what he's doing to Yao, but the problem goes beyond that. Look at our crunch-time execution. Luther Head completely botches a post entry pass. The defense comes off KG at the top of the key and nobody rotates. Nobody boxes out Ray freaking Allen and lets him get 2 crucial offensive rebounds. What is this? BAD COACHING. Consistently poor crunchtime execution is evidence of BAD COACHING.

I'm bitterly disappointed in Yao's production because he performed better LAST YEAR, not five years ago, and last year was an injury year, so now that his injury healed he should at least be able to duplicate it? Apparently not. It's a lost year for him. Call him Jermaine O'Neal, Rik Smits, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, or whatever you want. He deserves it this year. He was producing like a superstar last year, and with McGrady out was pushing 30ppg and would be a strong MVP candidate. This year, he's producing like Jermaine O'Neal and looks like utter garbage with McGrady out.

Maybe next year will be better.
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Post#392 » by jove9 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:29 pm

You've been essentially saying the same thing since early this morning. Aren't you tired?
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Post#393 » by compucomp » Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:31 pm

jove9 wrote:You've been essentially saying the same thing since early this morning. Aren't you tired?


Never. 8)
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Post#394 » by BaYBaller » Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:47 pm

compucomp wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Yep, everyone on the team is underperforming except Bon$i, and we know why he is really motivated this year, and it's not because he desperately wants to see the team win. Great work by Adelman, huh?


Do you watch the games or just the box scores? And I'm being serious here. Both Alston and Luther are performing very well as of late. Battier is coming around showing more of his offensive game. The only person who has seriously underperformed is Mike James, and that isn't Adelman's fault. And no, you don't have to pull their season stats for me, just rewatch (or I guess in your case watch for the first time) the last couple of games. Not to mention Scola and Brooks are playing very well as well.

By your standard there are about 5 superstars in the league. Kobe, Lebron, Wade, KG, and Duncan, and Wade would be very borderline right now. McGrady has NOT been a superstar since his first year here, if you refuse to consider what Yao did last year as superstar production.


Superstar is just some media-created term to help them sell papers. There is not a single player in the NBA who can carry a team by himself. If you really are that concerned about Yao getting recognition then you should be rooting for the Rockets to win regardless of his production because at the end of the day if the Rockets are an elite team then T-Mac and Yao will get the credit for it. It's just what the media does.

Again, I want to rip Adelman's head off because what he's doing to Yao, but the problem goes beyond that. Look at our crunch-time execution. Luther Head completely botches a post entry pass. The defense comes off KG at the top of the key and nobody rotates. Nobody boxes out Ray freaking Allen and lets him get 2 crucial offensive rebounds. What is this? BAD COACHING. Consistently poor crunchtime execution is evidence of BAD COACHING.


Now you're just being silly. If your pro-basketball coach has to tell a player to box your man out for a defensive rebound or how to make a proper pass then the coach is not your problem. That's middle-school stuff.

I'm bitterly disappointed in Yao's production because he performed better LAST YEAR, not five years ago, and last year was an injury year, so now that his injury healed he should at least be able to duplicate it? Apparently not. It's a lost year for him. Call him Jermaine O'Neal, Rik Smits, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, or whatever you want. He deserves it this year. He was producing like a superstar last year, and with McGrady out was pushing 30ppg and would be a strong MVP candidate. This year, he's producing like Jermaine O'Neal and looks like utter garbage with McGrady out.

Maybe next year will be better.


The only reason Yao produced more statistically last year was because he was more of a focus on the offense. The team is clearly playing better lately with T-Mac out than last year, even though Yao is producing less statistically, which is a good thing.
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Post#395 » by Grunt » Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:25 am

compucomp, you state that Yao had a horrible game against the Celtics, and then go straight to his FG%.

Basketball is about more than FG% and point totals. Yaos rebounding and defense looks good, he is less hesitant in double teams and attacks the basket aggressively. He dunks on everything he has a chance to. In a lot of ways he played a good game, his shots just werent falling... which is annoying, but it happens to Kobe too!

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