Something that should NEVER be said when suggesting a trade

[moofs]

As a general tip with regard to something I see done quite frequently on this board:

We need a Derek Fisher-like point guard.

See the flaw?

There is no such thing as a "Derek Fisher-like" point guard. There is Derek Fisher. If you honestly mean Derek Fisher-like, you should specify who exactly you mean (and in this case, and most others, would be wrong. Very rarely do two players match up similarly enough in styles and abilities to be used in a comparison like this with any validity).

What this actually means is that
- You want to try and acquire Derek Fisher but are too lazy to suggest a realistic trade.
- Know that no realistic trade for Derek Fisher exists but want to suggest it anyway and leave it up to someone else to suggest the actual trade (which won't happen because there isn't one)
- You want to bluster that we could use an upgrade at point guard but don't want to take the time to look through lists of point guards around the NBA and figure up realistic options, so you pick a random name out of a hat of a guy who isn't paid too much (maybe), yet can shoot, pass, and play defense.
- Assume that the NBA is stocked with as many Derek Fisher-like players as a low budget restaurant's kitchen is with cockroaches (sorry to inform you that there's only one, unless you'd like to go find a Hakeem Olajuwon-like or Robert Horry-like player next)

No doubt there are other reasons this might be done, but yeah. In a nutshell, representing yourself with over-generalization and group-think is bad, and not just on basketball message boards. In this case, the best thing that can happen is that either no one will read/pay attention to it, or that someone else who isn't thinking critically will nod their head in agreement with you (and be just as wrong).

Ah, it's fun to rant.

[YoungMoney23]

fisher wont be going anywhere because the whole reason he left utah was to go to a city where he could get top care for his daughter

[hayden]

Hrmm, I wouldn't say Derek Fisher.. more of a Mike Bibby-like PG.

[moofs]

fisher wont be going anywhere because the whole reason he left utah was to go to a city where he could get top care for his daughter

..
Fisher was just an example of the point being made.

[BaYBaller]

I wish this board had more moofs-like rants.

[Ballfan24]

Fisher is untouchable! Id say Kobe is more obtainable then Fisher!

[Spartacus]

I kinda want a Steve Nash-like PG... with the hops of a Steve-Francis-in-his-prime-like PG... with the flashiness of a Baron Davis-like PG

[Optimism Prime]

I kinda want a Steve Nash-like PG... with the hops of a Steve-Francis-in-his-prime-like PG... with the flashiness of a Baron Davis-like PG

In a Deron Williams-like frame with Chris Paul-like quick hands, right?

[RaoulDuke79]

What we really need is a Rafer Alston-like PG who can shoot but with the body of a Deron Williams-like PG and quickness of a Chris Paul-like PG but with the Alien-like looks of a Sam Cassell-like PG only not as old, but with alot of experience.

I mean like, totally.

[moofs]

OMGZ ur so ttly rite!!!!

[CJballa14]

i think a dwight howard like player with tim duncan like touch and michael jordan like skills would be perfect next to yao...

[ballinforkeeps]

man i really hope this isnt gettin on your nerves. if i wanna say "we need a haslem like pf" im gonna say it. im not gonna take time and list a few more players just to be more specific. why should i? if i say i want haslem you should think of guys like foster, varajeo, etc.

i aint that into message boards as most of yall are. if you wanna take time out of your lives (hopefully most of you work, go to school, which means you have somewhat busy lives) to be more specific when you suggest a type of player you want, thats good, but ima keep sayin "i wanna haslem like big" cuz it dont matter how u say it.

be real, how many "derek fisher" pgs are there in every offseason? not a lot, theres not ot lot of any type of player in the offseason to sign from the free agency. so i should list fisher, delonte, AND watson even tho theyre the only 3 pgs that are similar to each other (example, dont take it literal).

if youre tryna be funny then thats cool too, just hope this stuff doesnt make u mad, cuz it shouldnt.

[tha_rock220]

I think a player with Yao like height with Redd like shooting, Howardish athleticism, and Duncan-esque post offense and defense would do wonders for our team.

fisher wont be going anywhere because the whole reason he left utah was to go to a city where he could get top care for his daughter

m.d. anderson kid.

[HoustonRockets]

^^^ word m.d. anderson is tops... either way i dont want a fisher like point guard on this team...

i want mike bibby and artest or miller... final

[King Roosk]

Derek Fisher was just an example.

I think a majority of people missed the point trying to be made by Moofs.

[TMU]

We need more moofs-like posters here. I find his rants hilarious.

I don't know moofs. You make a good point, but people are always going to make direct comparisons, and label one player as "____"-like. Now the term "____"-like is ambiguous as we have different perception of what each individual's strongest attribute is. But we still say it anyway.

[moofs]

I don't know moofs. You make a good point, but people are always going to make direct comparisons, and label one player as "____"-like. Now the term "____"-like is ambiguous as the way we perceive the player's strongest attribute differently. But we still say it anyway.

Yeah, TV announcers tend to be just as guilty of this as anyone, so it's easy to see how the habit starts with regard to basketball. (I'd call them lazy too eh, that or deliberately polarizing)

In a similar vein, I have a friend who is VERY political minded (he tracks politics the way I memorize NBA stats tables). He tends to harp on me when I get a bit idealistic (frequently). Really if you boil it down, idealism is nothing more than saying you have an abstract idea that you want to mold reality to, but typically end up mapping out maybe a square foot of the football field sized mold you actually need to have (and considering the scope of most political systems, even that mold would just barely get you started). Whether it's due to laziness, ignorance, or whatever have you, the fact remains that idealism tends to ignore reality (which is also why reality is often shaped by fools).

Derek Fisher was just an example.

I think a majority of people missed the point trying to be made by Moofs.

In other words, just another day at the office...

[Tyler_Durden76]

I suggest getting TJ Ford or Andre Miller, here is a possible scenario of TJ Ford to Houston:
Milwaukee Bucks--

Incoming Players
Jason Collins
Salary: $6,100,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 1.4 REB: 2.1 AST: 0.4 PER: 2.05

Tracy McGrady
Salary: $18,257,750 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 21.9 REB: 5.0 AST: 5.4 PER: 19.98

Shane Battier
Salary: $5,883,600 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 8.6 REB: 5.0 AST: 1.8 PER: 11.49

Marc Gasol
Salary: $0 Years Remaining: 0

Outgoing Players: Dan Gadzuric, Aurelijius Zukauskas, Yi Jianlian, Charlie Bell, Michael Redd, Szymon Szewczyk

Projected Depth Chart:
PF Villanueva, Ruffin
SF Battier, Mason
C Bogut, Collins
SG McGrady, Simmons
PG MoWilliams, Ivey

Why it makes sense:
There has been noise that the owner is impatient with this perenial lottery team. There is bad blood among teamates, Milwaukee has been shopping Redd around and Houston has been rumored to be interested with a TMac swap. They too want to dump Gadzuric's salary but only Memphis has cap space to do this, but in order to entice Memphis, Milwaukee may have to send some draft rights, a future first round pick, some cash considerations and Charlie Bell to help Gay with the scoring for the rest of the season. TMac coming to Milwaukee may give the team its much needed superstar power, the publicity and economic revenue windfalls it sorely needs. Battier will be a defensive asset the team need especially on the wing spot.

Why it may not work:
To do this deal Milwaukee may have to trade Yi, the most attractive asset they have. With Yi playing badly lately and Kohl not so enamored with the rookie preferring CV, I can see this happening despite hometown fan displeasure.

-----------------------

Toronto Raptors--

Incoming Players
Mike Miller
Salary: $8,376,194 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 17.0 REB: 6.7 AST: 3.7 PER: 15.98

Kwame Brown
Salary: $9,075,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 5.7 REB: 5.6 AST: 1.2 PER: 9.63

Hakim Warrick
Salary: $1,376,040 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 7.5 REB: 3.1 AST: 0.4 PER: 15.69

Juan Carlos Navarro
Salary: $538,090 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 10.8 REB: 2.4 AST: 2.2 PER: 12.35

Kyle Lowry
Salary: $1,087,680 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 8.7 REB: 3.4 AST: 3.5 PER: 12.95

Outgoing Players: Juan Dixon, Joey Graham, T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, Jason Kapono, Jorge Garbajosa

Projected Depth Chart:
PF Bosh, Humphries
SF Miller, Moon, Warrick
C Bargnani, KBrown
SG Parker, Navarro
PG Calderon, Lowry

Why it makes sense:
Toronto needs a shake up after all they are on a dooldrum to be a so so middle round playoff team. BC may opt for flexibility for next season by trading off volatile assets such as TJ and Garbo as well as correcting a mistake such as the Kapono signing in the offseason, shoring up the small forward spot with a more reliable shooter in Mike Miller. Getting a disgruntled Navarro to replace Dixon while checking out Lowry as a Ford replacement. Brown is a huge expiring salary replacement to Rasho, plus BC gets to test him out as a possible banger in the inside, slightly better upgrade to Rasho overall. Warrick maybe another junkyard dog off the bench. The best thing for this trade is that the Raptors would be able to sign Calderon for the free agent extension next season, bring in Ukic from Europe for cheap at the same time able to swim into the free agent market to snag a marquee player to make the Raptors into a legit contender.

Why it wont work:
Memphis may want more from the raps to give up some of its cap this year. This may require a first round pick. So BC should evaluate if giving up a first rounder is worth it to get such a deal like this be done. Fans may have a hard time to swallow the loss of such a spark plug like Ford. Plus this deal may show case that the team have decided to take a step backward temporarily to retool in order to be stronger in the future.

-------------------

Houston Rockets

Incoming Players
Yi Jianlian
Salary: $2,777,760 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 9.6 REB: 5.8 AST: 0.9 PER: 12.46

T.J. Ford
Salary: $8,275,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 13.5 REB: 1.9 AST: 6.6 PER: 21.80

Michael Redd
Salary: $14,520,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 23.0 REB: 4.7 AST: 3.6 PER: 20.45

Jason Kapono
Salary: $5,356,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 8.3 REB: 1.7 AST: 0.9 PER: 12.02

Outgoing Players: Tracy McGrady, Shane Battier, Mike James

Projected Depth Chart:
PF Scola, Yi, Hayes
SF Kapono, Wells
C Yao, Mutombo, Butler
SG Redd, Head
PG Ford, Alston, Brooks

Why it makes sense:
Houston isnt going anywhere with the roster it has, the lack of a passing point guard is a struggle for the team that has to put proper pieces around Yao. The team's lack of consistent shooters especially someone providing 3s when Yao is double teamed is killing them. Kapono is the proper answer, lingering on the bench of Toronto, he would be useful in a lineup with Yao. Also for Adelman who may want to switch to a running gear may utilize Ford a pushing point guard to an athletic forward in Yi. It may help Yi blossom as well with the tutelage of compatriot Yao, Yi may become a superstar in the making in a running 2nd unit for the Rockets.

Why it may not work:
Houston brass may have to swallow their pride to admit that the Gay and Swift for Battier deal is a disaster. It also means that the TMac and Yao experiment is over. This may set back the rockets slightly for this year, it would be an admission this year is a wash. (which it is)

-----------------------

Memphis Grizzlies

Incoming Cash
*Cash compensation received from Milwaukee

Incoming Players
Dan Gadzuric
Salary: $5,751,130 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 3.1 REB: 2.5 AST: 0.3 PER: 11.75

Aurelijius Zukauskas
Salary: $0 Years Remaining: 0

Charlie Bell
Salary: $3,106,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 6.4 REB: 2.6 AST: 3.1 PER: 9.37

Offer Matched When a team exercises the right of first refusal to keep a Restricted Free Agent cannot trade the player for 1 year without the player's consent. The player cannot be traded to the team that gave the offer sheet. (Heat).

Juan Dixon
Salary: $2,550,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.6 REB: 1.3 AST: 1.8 PER: 11.72

Joey Graham
Salary: $1,596,600 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 3.9 REB: 2.1 AST: 0.3 PER: 8.75

Rasho Nesterovic
Salary: $7,840,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.1 REB: 3.9 AST: 1.0 PER: 12.80

Mike James
Salary: $5,826,893 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 6.9 REB: 1.6 AST: 1.7 PER: 10.43

Szymon Szewczyk
Salary: $0 Years Remaining: 0

Jorge Garbajosa
Salary: $4,000,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 3.1 REB: 2.1 AST: 0.4 PER: 10.70


Outgoing Players: Jason Collins, Mike Miller, Kwame Brown, Hakim Warrick, Juan Carlos Navarro, Kyle Lowry

Probable Depth Chart:
PF Milicic, Cardinal
SF Bell, Graham
C Gadzuric, Nesterovic
SG Gay, Crittenton, Dixon
PG Conley, James

Why it makes sense:
The team is for sale and hence needs to firesale as much assets to speed up rebuilding, a draft pick each from Milwaukee and Toronto should help the process. Still getting the expiring contracts equivalent to Kwame's via Rasho and Dixon at the same time the possible insurance reimbursement via Garbajosa's contract while getting back 2 year contracts of James and Graham ensures that Rudy Gay should get some decent scoring help with the loss of Miller.

Why it wont work:
This means freeing up cap to the max this year would be partially delayed a year via acquisition of Bell, James and Graham. Plus they have to swallow Gadzuric's contract just to get Milwaukee's pick.

---------------------

I think this deal is perfect for all the teams involved, everyone ends up to be winners at the end of the day getting each of the GM's objectives for the team attained.

Such a blockbuster is difficult to pull, so chances are it is slim such a trade above will happen but in a fantasy world I think the above deal solves all the problems for the 4 teams involved.

[jove9]

What the hell? Didn't you post this trade on the trade board?

Man, way to hijack the thread.

EDIT: Here's the link.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=759951

[jove9]

man i really hope this isnt gettin on your nerves. if i wanna say "we need a haslem like pf" im gonna say it. im not gonna take time and list a few more players just to be more specific. why should i? if i say i want haslem you should think of guys like foster, varajeo, etc.

i aint that into message boards as most of yall are. if you wanna take time out of your lives (hopefully most of you work, go to school, which means you have somewhat busy lives) to be more specific when you suggest a type of player you want, thats good, but ima keep sayin "i wanna haslem like big" cuz it dont matter how u say it.

be real, how many "derek fisher" pgs are there in every offseason? not a lot, theres not ot lot of any type of player in the offseason to sign from the free agency. so i should list fisher, delonte, AND watson even tho theyre the only 3 pgs that are similar to each other (example, dont take it literal).

if youre tryna be funny then thats cool too, just hope this stuff doesnt make u mad, cuz it shouldnt.

This from a guy who's made almost 8000 posts since July '06. This averages out to a little over 13 posts a day.