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Third option

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Third option 

Post#1 » by Dinky Bits » Tue May 6, 2008 1:03 am

There are several options out there. Personally, I won't be happy with anyone unless they're at least close to All Star calibre. If we only make small adjustments to the roster, I'll be even more pissed. We STILL have no second playmaker. T-Mac is responsible for about sixty percent of the offense, and it's wearing him out. Yao is responsible for the other fourty percent, and he's not looking too great from it, either. This third scorer has potential to do wonders for both of them, as well as their health.

Best options out there:

Ron Artest
Corey Maggette
Josh Howard
Mike Miller

Players who aren't good enough to be that third option:

Mickael Pietrus
Josh Childress

This could work several ways. The best, player-wise, would be Ron Artest for Battier, as Ron is equally as good of a defender, and a far superior offensive player. The problem is that Ron the person isn't in Battier's league. He also wants to play for New York, supposedly, but the guy changes his mind every five seconds, so who knows.

Josh Howard- same scenario, although he might be less of a headache than Ron. He'll also most likely be a lot tougher to get, and he smokes weed, which could be a problem.

Mike Miller and Maggette are both great offensive players, and can actually make plays for others as well, but we'd probably have to keep Battier, as we'd be losing too much defensively if he were to go.

Thoughts? Who would you prefer? If someone else, then state why, and how we could get them.
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Post#2 » by TiMacMania » Tue May 6, 2008 1:32 am

magette or artest


pleaseeeeeeeeeeee
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Post#3 » by TMACFORMVP » Tue May 6, 2008 1:45 am

I personally like Artest the most out of all those options (especially considering I think J-Ho is unrealistic). He's one of the elite two way players in the game and what I like is his ability to play in the post or stretch the D with the three. He's become more efficient offensively recently as well.
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Post#4 » by RoxFan08 » Tue May 6, 2008 2:13 am

I agree Artest is the best option, mostly because the most likely scenario in which we get him involves him opting out of his contract and signing for the MLE. He would make this team a true championship contender, and when we choose to go Artest/Battier at the 2/3 positions, we can completely shut down the other team's wings. However, the Kings are delusional and will never (seemingly) accept a rebuild so a trade would either be impossible might as well be (cost us way too much), so again he must opt out and sign here, or MAYBE a S&T.

Miller is the next best option, by far the best shooter of the bunch. Unfortunately, we don't have too many great pieces, as someone else can definitely put together a more competitive package, and Memphis seems "committed" to rebuilding around him, whatever the hell that means. Miller is the perfect Adelman player, however, being a pretty darn good creator and passer in his own right, along with lights out long range shooting and at least decent defense.

Maggette is a money chaser, he probably won't opt out and if he does he won't sign here.

Howard had a downer year, is a self-confessed pothead, and would cost us too much to get. Pietrus is overrated and a pretty dumb player. Childress is very solid, but a RFA for Atlanta. If they choose not to keep him, I would definitely look at him.
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Post#5 » by luhbron » Tue May 6, 2008 2:49 am

what about Gilbert Arenas?

I don't know how high Washington is on him anymore since they seem to play just as well, if not better, when the team plays without him.

What an awesome 3rd option that would be though. It seems all elite teams now have 3 options. It used to be that a 1-2 punch could make you a contender. I think its 1-2-3 now. See: Boston, San Antonio, Utah, New Orleans.
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Post#6 » by sweet_jesus » Tue May 6, 2008 3:31 am

Did something already happen to Scola while I've been wheeping the last few days?



A consistant 3 pt threat like Tracey's good friend Mike Miller would be nice but is it realistic?

What would the Grizz want for him Expiring contracts and our 1st rd draft pick?


I know most of those other guys that have been listed arent.


This team's core will stay intact, don't hold your breathe for some desparate attempt at bringing in 3rd wheel at the expense of the our limited depth.
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Post#7 » by A.J. » Tue May 6, 2008 3:33 am

I personally would like for us to get Mike Miller as a 3rd scorer. We are lacking that perimeter shooter and Miller is it. He can give us 17 a game and can take the shooting load off of T-Mac on some nights.

Corey Maggette wouldnt be so bad also. He probably wont average 20 a game like he did with the Clippers but he could give us at least 18 a game.
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Post#8 » by Dinky Bits » Tue May 6, 2008 3:40 am

If this is the core that stays intact, then our first round records will also stay intact. All of the great teams have an All Star level third option. Lakers have Odom, Jazz have Okur/Kirilenko (who I guess equal one All Star) Celtics have Allen, Spurs have Manu/Parker, Pistons have Sheed, Billups, Rip. See a pattern?

We have plenty of scrubs who can net us a third option. Hell, even Bobby Jackson can be useful in a trade. We've needed another playmaker for a long time now, and if we keep leaning on Yao and McGrady as much as we do, then we're going to continue to get the same results we';ve had the past couple of years.
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Post#9 » by tisbee » Tue May 6, 2008 4:51 am

Portland's Martell Webster.(Ironic if was Francis-and cash to buy him out-and a First for Webster and one of their 08 Seconds. They might need to make room for Fernandez.)
Seattle's Damien Wilkins. Tho he does much better as SF than as SG.
Clips Quinton Ross. Good defender,not much offense,but I suspect he would be suprisingly effective in Adelman's motion O.
But I suspect Houston is going after a scoring SG/SF in the draft.

I imagine Adelman,while he would like a another scoring machine,prob feels his offense is the third scoring option. During the streak it was a diff player each night,Alston,Scola,Landry,Battier.
As to the third All-Star type player,Battier has been among top 3 defensive players past two yrs.
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Post#10 » by sweet_jesus » Tue May 6, 2008 5:24 am

In Morey I Trust.



I love the concept that we need a third allstar cause everyone else has one but this team has very little to offer to get someone on that level.



Memphis may let Miller go for Expirings (B-Jax and Head) combined with draft picks. They are in rebuilding mode but how many other playoff teams can match that offer or top it?


It's possible Artest or Maggette could be had for peanuts but I don't believe we have any former Rockets handleing those teams to get a Gasol-like deal


As far as the younger guys like Howard or Childress, i think they with will be unattainable with what we have.
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Post#11 » by McGrady2Head » Tue May 6, 2008 6:42 am

I agree 100 percent with dinky bits. A third scorer is not something we "might" need to go out and get, its something that we "must" go out and get. shaq-amare-nash, parker-duncan-ginobili, kobe-gasol-odom, allen-pierce-garnett, dirk-terry-howard, billups-sheed-rip, paul-west-peja, deron-boozer-okur, etc.

T-Mac is not Kobe. Yao is not Shaq. We can't just put any 3 players out there with them and expect to win. They won with very little talent (Rush, Fisher, Fox, Horry, Medvedenko, Samaki Walker, Madsen, D. George, etc). Most of those guys SUCK. Shaq and Kobe are so dominant, it didn't matter how bad there teammates were. This is not the case with T-Mac and Yao. They MUST have more help.

If you look around at all the team boards, you will notice that most fans overrate the players on their team that they love, and the underrate the players on there team that they hate. I was looking at the Dallas board, and they are talking like they want to trade Terry and Howard for a bag of chips. They believe they have no value. On the Utah board, they pretty much all hate Carlos Boozer. They are mad at those players, and now they are underrating there value. That is the same thing we do with ours. Our tradeable assets are.....

A- First Round Pick: These always carry value.

B- Luther Head: To us, this guy has no value, just like terry, howard, and boozer don't have value according to their respective teams. We watch Luther everynight, we all know he suxx. To someone on the outside, they might see a young, fairly athletic deadly three point shooter. Luckily in this league, GM's tend to only look at the positives, just like we did when we signed Swift for his "potential" or steve francis because he might turn in to "what he used to be." Luther Head carries value in a trade, and we should use this asset to our advantage.

C- Bobby Jackson: First off, most people are going to remember his days in Sac town where he was a very good guard. Next, they are going to see he was a part of a 22 game win streak this year. Sure, we saw him everynight, and we know he isnt really great, but teams will take a chance on him. He's still a decent guard. Not to mention, he will be on the last year of his contract, which makes his value sky-rocket.

D- Shane Battier: I like Battier as much as the next guy, but come on. If a 3rd option is out there for the taking, and Battier has to be part of the deal, we would be stupid not to do it. Battier isn't as valuable to us as he once was. The additions of the highly energized duo of Landry and Scola and lowered Shane's value. They bring just as much energy, and they can be the "glue guy" just as well as Battier can. A spot on the all defensive team will give Battier alot of value this off-season, lets take advantage of it or else we will be sitting here this time next year watching Battier not help at all on the offensive end of the court, and not really shutting down anybody on the defensive end either, and wondering who a great 3rd option could be next to T-Mac and Yao for the next year. Battier has been to two playoffs with us, and hasnt shut down anybody yet. He's a great regular season player like Dirk, but when it comes to the playoffs, he isn't built for it.

a 1st Round Pick, Luther Head, Bobby Jackson (expiring contract), and Shane Battier are more than enough to get us a 3rd scorer. I really think if we call the Clippers and offer up Battier for Maggette, they would do it. That would be an amazing deal for us. Maggette drives to the hole plus hes a great shooter. This would be a great start......

Alston/Brooks
T-Mac
Maggette
Scola/Landry
Yao

Not counting Brooks, that's 6 REALLY good players we would be taking into the playoffs next year. Thats a well rounded team, and would be very tough to beat.
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Post#12 » by McGrady2Head » Tue May 6, 2008 6:49 am

Shane B: 9.3 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 1.9 APG, 42.8 FG%, 74.3 FT%, 37.7 3P%
Corey M: 22.1PPG, 5.6 RPG, 2.7 APG, 45.8 FG%, 81.2 FT%, 38.4 3P%

LOL i mean come on, I don't care how much of a "team player" or "defensive stopper" battier is, Maggette is a MAJOR upgrade
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Post#13 » by Amel » Tue May 6, 2008 1:40 pm

lol at some stacking up for Artest

wasnt there a hate thread about artest, how he's this and that

the guy can straight out play, I dont care if he goes nuts occasionally, I'll rather have that than someone who dissapears in 4th quarter, has some kind of an injury every game and wants to retire at the age of 26
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Post#14 » by moofs » Tue May 6, 2008 2:27 pm

McGrady2Head wrote:Shane B: 9.3 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 1.9 APG, 42.8 FG%, 74.3 FT%, 37.7 3P%
Corey M: 22.1PPG, 5.6 RPG, 2.7 APG, 45.8 FG%, 81.2 FT%, 38.4 3P%

LOL i mean come on, I don't care how much of a "team player" or "defensive stopper" battier is, Maggette is a MAJOR upgrade


One thing about Maggette is that he's been known to stop ball movement. I don't know if that'd be a problem with us, but it's a consideration. Past that, I don't know how his defense is and he only shoots about 33% for his career on 3's. Seems like I've read that he's prone to sulking and complaining about minutes as well. Might be minor things, might not be.
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Post#15 » by BaYBaller » Tue May 6, 2008 2:50 pm

You can't just look at good scorers and say that's who we need. At this point, with this roster, you also need a good fit. You need somebody who can put up 12-15 points a night who isn't doesn't have to dominate the ball. For example, I think Maggette and Artest would dominate the ball too much to get their points.

Ideally, in terms of a scorer, we could really use a sharp-shooting PG since your PG will always get up a decent amount of shots up having the ball in his hands so much. Calderon would've been a great fit, however TOR will not let him go after the season he's had. If we can't get a PG (and maybe management has high hopes for Brooks), then we need to at least address the lack of a sharp shooter. Miller is the most obvious answer there. If the team got Miller without giving up a key piece I would say that, on paper, the team is a legit contender.
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Post#16 » by McGrady2Head » Tue May 6, 2008 3:12 pm

moofs wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



One thing about Maggette is that he's been known to stop ball movement. I don't know if that'd be a problem with us, but it's a consideration. Past that, I don't know how his defense is and he only shoots about 33% for his career on 3's. Seems like I've read that he's prone to sulking and complaining about minutes as well. Might be minor things, might not be.


Maggette has played with Cassell, Mobley, and Brand at the same time, and they had a great season, and he had a great season. He is a really tough defender too. And about his complaining for minutes, that wouldnt be a problem because he would get more than enough here, because he would be starting next to tmac, and we dont really have a backup for them except head, so he might be playing more than he wants too lol
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Post#17 » by moofs » Tue May 6, 2008 4:55 pm

luhbron wrote:what about Gilbert Arenas?

I don't know how high Washington is on him anymore since they seem to play just as well, if not better, when the team plays without him.

What an awesome 3rd option that would be though. It seems all elite teams now have 3 options. It used to be that a 1-2 punch could make you a contender. I think its 1-2-3 now. See: Boston, San Antonio, Utah, New Orleans.


I wish people would stop mentioning him. Arenas is going to be either a sign and trade or the MLE. If he's the MLE, he's either going to be after Landry, which means he'll be in the 2-3 MILLION range, or Landry will get moved to the LLE, which would make him a danger to get snapped up by another team. Regardless, this isn't happening because Arenas is NOT signing for the MLE or less.

That leaves Sign & Trade. Who are we gonna give up to match the ~15 million Arenas will probably get? See you, [Yao | McGrady | half our roster]!

We might as well go for LeBron (in terms of likelihood, not talent).

BayBaller wrote:You can't just look at good scorers and say that's who we need. At this point, with this roster, you also need a good fit. You need somebody who can put up 12-15 points a night who isn't doesn't have to dominate the ball. For example, I think Maggette and Artest would dominate the ball too much to get their points.

Ideally, in terms of a scorer, we could really use a sharp-shooting PG since your PG will always get up a decent amount of shots up having the ball in his hands so much. Calderon would've been a great fit, however TOR will not let him go after the season he's had. If we can't get a PG (and maybe management has high hopes for Brooks), then we need to at least address the lack of a sharp shooter. Miller is the most obvious answer there. If the team got Miller without giving up a key piece I would say that, on paper, the team is a legit contender.


Exactly. Just between those two even, Maggette isn't the better player, but he should have higher value anyway simply because he doesn't bring as much baggage. Their current salaries already reflect that to a degree.

Too bad a lot of teams want Miller. It's probably going to come down to who has the best draft picks + cheapest expirings (minimum of about 6.8mil) on the table with him - still assuming Memphis really wants to get rid of him.

If we can't get him, I'm still hoping we at least get a good 6'5"+ 3 point threat or two. Come on Toronto, you know you want to give us Calderon, Kapono and/or Parker for Head and Jackson. Share the wealth!! I mean... come on, we're giving you Head! Do we have to get on our knees and beg too?

Please?


Pretty please?






With ketchup on top?

McGrady2Head wrote:Maggette has played with Cassell, Mobley, and Brand at the same time, and they had a great season, and he had a great season. He is a really tough defender too. And about his complaining for minutes, that wouldnt be a problem because he would get more than enough here, because he would be starting next to tmac, and we dont really have a backup for them except head, so he might be playing more than he wants too lol


I'm not saying Maggette would necessarily be terrible here, he might be great. I do think that it's more likely he ends up as BayBaller said, trying to dominate the ball too much, however. If we got Maggette, I would really want to still have Battier so he could be a backup, which is going to be a hard deal to swing unless the Clips want to dump salary or something (Donald, DONALD!! This is your very small conscience speaking! It is 1998, and you are spending more than 45 million on payroll, unacceptable!)
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Post#18 » by DraftBoy10 » Tue May 6, 2008 5:18 pm

It really is so dependent upon which 3rd star we get.

Now assuming we choose to stand pat as much as we can --- as in getting another backup big since Deke may leave, developing our youth even more.

We can then package Bobby Jackson, Luther Head, our 25th pick and possibly the 49th pick or cash considerations for that "3rd option". Where it really falls out of place is....which 3rd star?

If we land Corey Maggette. He's going to want to start, and is probably the least likely the fit, yet arguably the most attractive piece to get.

If we land Ron Artest. He's going to want to start, negates having Battier around, and we could cash out on Shane Battier or just keep him as our 6th man and limit his minutes to about 25-30, but in that type of role with Ronnie already on board- we'd want a more scoring oriented option.

If we land Mike Miller. He can be an ideal 6th man, he's played with Battier & McGrady before. Would cost us exactly what we could give most likely, but there's a catch to it. You'd assume Memphis would bite at that offer, but after being anally raped by LA there going to have to make up for it and Mike Miller is what they will use to attempt to rape a team with, but we'll see if that actually happens.

I agree if we really want to make it happen, we need to land a legit 3rd star from these 3. The best would be Artest cause of his ability to play the 2-4 on offense & defense, and really bring that over the top identity. Can you imagine teams trying to play physical with the most physical wing out there? Not only that the best thing about Sacramento is the use of Martin-Artest. Here'd it be better...McGrady-Artest. You HAVE to put your BIGGEST defender on Artest, that's the #1 defensive tactic, becasue you cannot afford to get murdered inside and make this a FT-game. Yet at the same time, you cannot put your lesser defender on Tracy McGrady. That's why Bonzi & Mac worked well at times, and Bonzi & Artest worked very well.

The thing is I highly doubt Sacramento changes their stance--they still want Aaron Brooks. And truthfully, I think it'd be fine handing over the 25th pick, Aaron Brooks, Luther Head and Bobby Jackson for Ron Artest if we here to ask to come here, that is. (his salary could start 9.8 million and work it's way up & be fine).

At the same time dealing for Artest has its consequences, and the inevitable idea of trading Shane Battier would have to be worked out. For all we know, if we make Battier available we could pull out very lucky, I know the Clippers would like Battier for Maggette, but I highly doubt Maggette would take a backup role. Battier for Terry?
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Post#19 » by DraftBoy10 » Tue May 6, 2008 5:23 pm

moofs wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



One thing about Maggette is that he's been known to stop ball movement. I don't know if that'd be a problem with us, but it's a consideration. Past that, I don't know how his defense is and he only shoots about 33% for his career on 3's. Seems like I've read that he's prone to sulking and complaining about minutes as well. Might be minor things, might not be.


It's debatable and all about roles. Maggette is an immature player, and there's no way around that. However, the role he'd have here I'd think he'd be very happy about. I'd assume he'd start, and he's the type of player where if he's happy, he'll do better overall(like play defense cause his build is certainly for it).

Offensively, he is a ball-stopper, doesn't pass it, but at the same time he gets the FT line a load. But remember his injury problems, do really want that?

I'm for Mike Miller or Ron Artest, personally. I'd be thrilled to have either, and just by subtracting Brooks, Luther, Bobby, our 1st. And then managing to sign a consistent backup PG/backup big(veterans preferabbly so they come cheaper), we could even entertain the idea of not possibly using the MLE this off-season.
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Post#20 » by moofs » Tue May 6, 2008 5:29 pm

One thing nobody's really gone into is how we'd get Artest as a possible UFA. We're looking at a similar problem to what we have with Arenas there, although he's only going to command 7-10.5 million, probably closest to 9.5 - some increase on his current salary, but not as much as possible.

Or is he still a UFA? Did he exercise his option yet? How long does he have to decide whether to do that or not? I wouldn't expect it until after the season is completely over, but don't know the rules for it.

DraftBoy, your presentation of Artest is definitely very intriguing from a strictly basketball standpoint, but I'd still be very, very, VERY nervous about his tendency to implode at any time. Defensively, especially if we somehow managed to keep Battier, we'd be a nightmare, but I don't trust him at all.

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