RealGM

If we are offered a 3rd Scoring Option for Battier, jackson, and Head, which one would you choose.....

A package involving Battier, Head and Jax has more value than a few of the players in the list.

Jefferson is the best one listed.

Vince Carter easily. He was the best 2 guard statistically in the East last season. What's even more amazing about it is the fact he did it all on one leg - and that his stats *and* efficiency went up when Kidd left. How could anyone choose RJ as the best one listed? Carter does anything anyone on that list does better.

I really doubt the Nets would do it though. Just to give you guys an idea the impact this guy has on the games.. He put up a +12 +/- for them (Possibly the best +/- in the league - higher than Kobe or Lebron) yet the Nets were a losing team. When he sat, the Nets would go down BIG and lose games; when he plays the Nets would outplay the other team.

I can't even imagine what kind of damage a big three of T-Mac/Carter/Yao would be capable of. That would be the best big 3 this league has seen in this era. Of course it's wishful thinking; it isn't going to happen.

McGrady2Head wrote:If we are offered a 3rd Scoring Option for Battier, jackson, and Head, which one would you choose.....

How about for Shawn Marion?

^

As much as I like him, Marion doesn't seem to have bought into the "team" idea, which is a huge reason why the Rockets are better than the sum of their parts. Frankly, Artest is the only player listed I'd consider moving Battier for. Defense is our staple, and it's the only way we are going to survive TMac's inevitable cold nights from the field.

Carter would be nice...but have you seen his contract? It runs at like 18 mill a year for FOUR more years...yikes.

I think its pretty safe to take Jamal Crawford, Ben Gordon, Jason Terry, and Jerry Stackhouse off the list. Especially the last two. Stackhouse isn't even that good of a scorer anymore

Only the pair on the Nets, but i'am still not sure about losing Battier.

Artest or Jefferson

Vince is like his cousin, injury prone

Amel wrote:Artest or Jefferson

Vince is like his cousin, injury prone

Carter played:
76 games in '04-'05
79 games in '05-'06
82 games in '06-'07
76 games in '07-'08

He's played much more games than

Artest:
7 games in '04-'05
56 games in '05-'06
70 games in '06-'07
57 games in '07-'08

and RJ:
33 games in '04-'05
78 games in '05-06
55 games in '06-'07
82 games in '07-'08

bonzi wells is free agent
maybe he would like to play for coach adelman again

etopn23 wrote:

Amel wrote:Artest or Jefferson

Vince is like his cousin, injury prone

Carter played:
76 games in '04-'05
79 games in '05-'06
82 games in '06-'07
76 games in '07-'08

He's played much more games than

Artest:
7 games in '04-'05
56 games in '05-'06
70 games in '06-'07
57 games in '07-'08

and RJ:
33 games in '04-'05
78 games in '05-06
55 games in '06-'07
82 games in '07-'08

lol

even if you don't count 04-05 season when Artest was suspended for the whole season

One of the reasons i want Battier before Ron, i like Artest as a player, but he gets injured too often, and also suspended, Battier guarantees 82 games season, except 1 game some weeks ago.

We gotta find a 3rd scoring option and Mike Miller maybe a good fit for our team, and he is also has got a good relationship with Tracy. If it is not, maybe we can go after maggette. i love his play too. There are many options and i think morey will do whatever is the best option for us.

etopn23 wrote:

Amel wrote:Artest or Jefferson

Vince is like his cousin, injury prone

Carter played:
76 games in '04-'05
79 games in '05-'06
82 games in '06-'07
76 games in '07-'08

He's played much more games than

Artest:
7 games in '04-'05
56 games in '05-'06
70 games in '06-'07
57 games in '07-'08

and RJ:
33 games in '04-'05
78 games in '05-06
55 games in '06-'07
82 games in '07-'08

fair enough

lets take it a bit further

Age
Artest 28
Carter 31
Jefferson 27

games played since 01/02 - Jefferson's first season

Artest

01-02 - 55
02-03 - 69
03-04 - 73
04-05 - 7
05-06 - 56
06-07 - 70
07-08 - 57

total: 387, would easily be around 450 if not suspended

Carter

01-02 - 60
02-03 - 43
03-04 - 73
04-05 - 77
05-06 - 79
06-07 - 82
07-08 - 76

total: 490

Jefferson

01-02 - 79
02-03 - 80
03-04 - 82
04-05 - 33
05-06 - 78
06-07 - 55
07-08 - 82

total:489


career stats

Artest

MPG 34.7
FG% 0.425
3P% 0.329
FT% 0.720
OFF 1.3
DEF 3.8
RPG 5.1
APG 3.2
SPG 2.1
BPG 0.6
TO 2.30
PF 3.00
PPG 16.0

Carter

MPG 37.8
FG% 0.447
3P% 0.375
FT% 0.794
OFF 1.7
DEF 3.8
RPG 5.5
APG 4.2
SPG 1.3
BPG 0.8
TO 2.42
PF 3.00
PPG 23.08

Jefferson

MPG 39.0
FG% 0.466
3P% 0.362
FT% 0.798
OFF 1.1
DEF 3.0
RPG 4.2
APG 3.1
SPG 0.9
BPG 0.3
TO 2.43
PF 2.70
PPG 22.6

Considering their age and upside, I would say we should look first into Jefferson, and then Carter or Artest, Carter having the better numbers, but Artests stats hurt due to suspension

Why in the world would you go back 7 seasons? That isn't indicative of whether the players are injury prone or not today. Carter has been on the court far more than Jefferson or Artest in recent history.

Jefferson's career numbers are way off btw.
17.4 ppg
2.7 PF
2.22 TOPG
.3 BPG
.9 SPG
3 APG
5.4 RPG

RJ has no upside whatsoever. He's 28 (the same age as McGrady. He puts up empty stats (NJ is my second favorite team, I watch him on a consistent basis). He isn't a good ball handler, he turns into a void at times (jacks up shots whenever he is passed to), isn't a good playmaker, and he doesn't play defense (how in the hell does a swingman average <1 b/s a game?).

Jefferson had a +2.2 +/-, a 2.6 roland rating... was among worse in the league in Win Shares and at the same time held one of the highest LS. Carter on the other hand was among the league leaders in every single advanced stat; when watching them play it's blatantly obvious that Carter is the better player. His impact on the game puts him on another level than RJ.

Carter might be 31 but his game has adapted to his regressing athleticism. His midrange/longrange jumper is money - he is still unstoppable going to the basket, and he is a great playmaker. Hell, he even has become a good defender. He can do everything Jefferson does better, and if there's even a minute chance we could pick him up with that package we have to take it. Carter still sees nightly doubleteams (unlike Jefferson); having T-Mac and Yao on the floor with him would open up the game for everyone.

The dude outplayed Dwayne Wade last season. That's how impressive he has been. People who just look at PPG and think he's regressing are in for a shock next season. He took a career low in FG attempts this year, I doubt that'll be the case next season.

Someone's an avid Carter fan.
I don't like anyone from that list except for Mike Miller. But then again, Battier, Head and Jackson is too much for Miller.

T-Mac United wrote:Someone's an avid Carter fan.
I don't like anyone from that list except for Mike Miller. But then again, Battier, Head and Jackson is too much for Miller.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jefferi01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... evi01.html

Check out what I said with the stats provided. It's all there. I don't think Carter and Jefferson are comparable players; most on the NJ board agree.


As for the Wade statement Heat fans agreed in the East SG thread that Carter outplayed Wade last season.

CB4MiamiHeat wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Carter is very underrated now, he had a great 2nd half.

If its in terms of how they played this season, etopn23 made a great argument for Vince 1, and Wade 2.

Carter is far and away the best player on that list. It makes no sense to choose anyone on that list over him. I have no doubt that he has a 4 year window of great play still based on the fact that he did so well last season crippled w/ that ankle injury.

etopn23 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Carter is far and away the best player on that list. It makes no sense to choose anyone on that list over him. I have no doubt that he has a 4 year window of great play still based on the fact that he did so well last season crippled w/ that ankle injury.

No dude, I never said Jefferson was better than Carter.
I mentioned this in every other thread, but individual talent is 2nd to the ideology of a ballclub. With Yao and McGrady (assuming they are still with the team next season) as our foundations, I don't think it's necessary to get Vince on this team. He still has 4 years left in his massive contract, and with 3 max players, we'll have no cash to spend on quality role players.

At this point, I will take 2 solid role players over an all-star.

etopn23 wrote:Why in the world would you go back 7 seasons? That isn't indicative of whether the players are injury prone or not today. Carter has been on the court far more than Jefferson or Artest in recent history.

Jefferson's career numbers are way off btw.
17.4 ppg
2.7 PF
2.22 TOPG
.3 BPG
.9 SPG
3 APG
5.4 RPG

RJ has no upside whatsoever. He's 28 (the same age as McGrady. He puts up empty stats (NJ is my second favorite team, I watch him on a consistent basis). He isn't a good ball handler, he turns into a void at times (jacks up shots whenever he is passed to), isn't a good playmaker, and he doesn't play defense (how in the hell does a swingman average <1 b/s a game?).

Jefferson had a +2.2 +/-, a 2.6 roland rating... was among worse in the league in Win Shares and at the same time held one of the highest LS. Carter on the other hand was among the league leaders in every single advanced stat; when watching them play it's blatantly obvious that Carter is the better player. His impact on the game puts him on another level than RJ.

Carter might be 31 but his game has adapted to his regressing athleticism. His midrange/longrange jumper is money - he is still unstoppable going to the basket, and he is a great playmaker. Hell, he even has become a good defender. He can do everything Jefferson does better, and if there's even a minute chance we could pick him up with that package we have to take it. Carter still sees nightly doubleteams (unlike Jefferson); having T-Mac and Yao on the floor with him would open up the game for everyone.

The dude outplayed Dwayne Wade last season. That's how impressive he has been. People who just look at PPG and think he's regressing are in for a shock next season. He took a career low in FG attempts this year, I doubt that'll be the case next season.

problem with you is not reading what I said,

as you indicated, Artest played less games and I give you the points for that...my analysis was for all the players in a fair manner, and thats exactly why I chose Jeffersons starting year..read it again throughly there is not much to read in my comments, I keep it simple