Get Yao the ball in the Low Post

[abcdef]

Iggyemu, this thread is for you. Now I know that Yao has been stinking it up this season. He got blocked by the rim a few times, by his opponents many other times. He's shooting under 50%. Today his defense was Stoudemire-like, in several other games this was also the case. He looks slow as hell, seems to have lost upper body strength, and can't jump (these things are commonly misinterpreted as "playing soft"), and personally I am beginning to believe that he is on the decline.

However, can you remember ANY good things that have happened with Yao up high? ANYTHING? I have watched the majority of the games this season and honestly I am having trouble remembering any good plays that have resulted from that set. He still can't hit the 18 footer, and as we saw in the Lakers game when he tries to make passes from there he is liable to get picked off.

It is really time to scrap that part of the offense and put Yao down low. Give him the ball and let him go to work. The only things that Yao has contributed have come when he is working in the low post or is battling in the paint. The offense was completely bogged down with missed jumper after missed jumper. The Spurs had single coverage on him today, and nobody got him the ball.

[TMACFORMVP]

I agree, but Yao has also had a tougher time than season's past to try to get positioning and actually score, but the overall scheme of things, yea, Yao should be in the low block at all time, he's useless at the high post because it's affecting his rebounding and he's a HORRIBLY overrated passer. And it's not like Mac calling for the pick and jacking up a brick, or Artest taking a pull up horrible jumpshot, that's way off to the left is any better.

[TMU]

Yao should take 20 shots per game and no one should take more shots than him. There's no other way around it. Forget the guard play. Watching Brooks waive off McGrady and Yao is frustrating. Kid needs to know his role.

[RaoulDuke79]

Clone Dorsey and have him go 5 on 5 against the other team.

Or do what was said above, if you want it that way, whatever's clever.

[Guy986]

Have you guys seen Yao this season? He's getting owned by the likes of Powe, Gasol, Perkin, and other scrub centers. I dont know what happened to Yao but he cant establish position anymore in the post. Getting Yao the ball inside is an adventure in itself especially when the opposition is fronting.

[TMACFORMVP]

Yeah that's a problem too, Yao should be getting majority of the shots since he's our best scorer, but he's not getting position like he used to and not finishing around the rim at the level that we know he's capable of. Right now all our three so called stars are struggling BIG TIME.

[bballmaniac27]

Have you guys seen Yao this season? He's getting owned by the likes of Powe, Gasol, Perkin, and other scrub centers. I dont know what happened to Yao but he cant establish position anymore in the post. Getting Yao the ball inside is an adventure in itself especially when the opposition is fronting.

I didn't see today's game but for the last couple of games we played Yao looked OK down in the low post. I think it'll be a lot better for the team if he plays more in the low post as opposed to the high post where he is absolutely lost.

[TMU]

McGrady is shooting below 40% and Artest is shooting 30%. Even if Yao got owned by Powe, Gasol and Perkins, he's still shooting around 45% which is much better than the players on the starting roster.

[Guy986]

McGrady is shooting below 40% and Artest is shooting 30%. Even if Yao got owned by Powe, Gasol and Perkins, he's still shooting around 45% which is much better than the players on the starting roster.

Artest is shooting 30%? Really, its that high?

[bballmaniac27]

lol it's pretty funny. I remember everyone was saying how the offense would improve drastically after we got Adelman. Everyone was saying how his offense would create so many easy shot opportunities for our players.

So now I'm looking at the FG % of our so called "big 3" ..... man were we off the mark or what?

[abcdef]

Have you guys seen Yao this season? He's getting owned by the likes of Powe, Gasol, Perkin, and other scrub centers. I dont know what happened to Yao but he cant establish position anymore in the post. Getting Yao the ball inside is an adventure in itself especially when the opposition is fronting.

It still beats having Yao out high. I know Yao looks slow as hell and apparently has lost upper body strength; I said this in my initial post . What I am saying is as bad as he has looked down low sometimes this season, he is still an effective post scorer, and it still beats having Yao out high, where he sucks all the time, and the team is not better off when he is up high. Artest and McGrady are shooting and scoring at career worst levels (so is Yao). Put Yao back in the low post, keep him there, and make a better effort to get him the ball.

[smapor]

Like I said, we don't have the players to run Ric's offense. However I believe Ric will continue to try and run this offense regardless if we win or lose.

Yao needs to stay at the low post. He is looking horrible because you are asking him to do something different. If he aint happy at the offensive end, he aint going to play defense as effective. Like I said look at how many high post touches he gets, all those touches can be low post. Let's face it Ric has no clue on how to play the inside out game.

[tha_rock220]

Adelman needs to tell Yao unless he averages 5 assists per game he's going to tell the guards not to get him the ball. Yao is a damn ballhogging turnover machine. I'm sorry, but since I saw him get blocked by Perkins and owned by Joel Pryzbilla it's obvious he needs to change his game.

[Iggyemu]

However, can you remember ANY good things that have happened with Yao up high? ANYTHING? I have watched the majority of the games this season and honestly I am having trouble remembering any good plays that have resulted from that set. He still can't hit the 18 footer, and as we saw in the Lakers game when he tries to make passes from there he is liable to get picked off.

I agree. The offense Adelman is trying to run isn't suiting Yao and the rest of this team. These guys are just not those kinds of players. All 3 of em need the ball to be effective and thats fine IMO. Boston had the same thing last year and won...The Spurs have been winning like that for a decade.

The main reason I was hyping the offense was b/c I think Yao is important to this team and he gets taken out of games too easily b/c he can't establish post position. I felt that if you moved him up high he would have the opportunity to affect the game in other ways and the offense would run smoother if we didn't spend 2/3 of the shot clock trying to get the ball into him in the post. Yao is not gonna get better at doing those things..I was hoping the offense could just offer him a chance to still be effective when he is struggling with post position.

The thing is though...the entire team just seems uncomfortable with what Adelman is preaching offensively. Its just not the identity of this team. We run traditional sets and those are effective. Our scoring is always low b/c we don't get easy baskets...but you don't need to be in the half court to get those...you gotta fast break and hit the boards offensively to try and get those.

It is really time to scrap that part of the offense and put Yao down low. Give him the ball and let him go to work. The only things that Yao has contributed have come when he is working in the low post or is battling in the paint. The offense was completely bogged down with missed jumper after missed jumper. The Spurs had single coverage on him today, and nobody got him the ball

It is time to scrap the offense I agree. But personally I am not sure Yao is up for the task of being the number 1 option on this team. Tonight for example...when we went to him in need of a basket...he turned it over. I would rather T-Mac or Artest launch some contested shot than have a turnover when the game is close. I think we have to find a way to play when Yao is struggling like he was tonight against Duncan instead of continually forcing him the ball.

Offensively he just seems to be on the decline and maybe it is the fact that he is taken out of his element playing the high post. But I just know that we can't spend 2/3 of the shot clock trying to get him the ball. We have to learn to deal with situations when he can't get position....

A lot of really bad things are happening with Houston right now. From the struggles of McGrady, Artest and Yao...to our inability to make open shots...to the inability to rebound (although thats been better these last 2 games). There are so many things that just seem to hold this team back. This team should not be playing this way. I think Adelman has lost this team by trying to force this offense on em. They just don't play hard unless something embarrassing happens to em.

[RaoulDuke79]

I normally don't get into the whole "OMG FIRE THIS GUY" or "OMG TRADE HIM NOW" type stuff but I'm very very quickly getting to the point of jumping on the "Get Rid Of Rick" bandwagon.

Then again, we won 50 games and had a 22-game win streak last season and pushed the Jazz to 6 games despite being banged up and he was the coach so...meh.

I'm just not a fan of him. I think he gets way too much credit for those Kings teams and I don't really see him being the right guy for our team.

Ok, now that I got that out of the way, Go Rockets!

[TMACFORMVP]

We have to be the WORST team in the league in terms of easy bucket opportunities, we're horrible on the break, either chuck up a long jump-shots or turn it over in the halfcourt. It's a blessing every time we score, and with the talent that we have, that shouldn't even be an issue. Yet our team always will have to make it an issue, because we're too damn streaky and don't recognize mis-matches or look for easy shot attempts.

Our offense is a mess, even getting Yao in the low post won't solve it, though it's a step in the right direction. He's shown he hasn't been able to get the position he'd like and is easily contained if there's any type of fronting. And it takes to long to initiate that type of offense, by the time we get it to Yao, the shot clock will be down under 8, and we'd have to move fast which results in a turnover or a forced shot attempt. Again we get nothing easy and work too hard to get a bad shot attempt. But overall again, I agree with everybody that Yao is utterly useless in the high post because he's a poor passer and his range is overblown.

The thing is with this team is, they have similar spots, our three best offensive players that is. Yao likes the low post, Mac is more effective in the mid-range area/block and same with Artest. I think if we're real adamant about playing the high post, then that should be McGrady's role, he plays the ball from the top of the key or the left/right wing while Yao is stationed in the low block to around 11-12 feet out in the baseline. Artest is kinda left out, but he'll have to take the role as the more spot up shooter with Mac and Yao (this is why I'd be in favor of starting Battier when he comes back, and bring Artest off the bench), Then when Mac goes to the bench, or Yao, Artest will play the low-block and get majority of his shots when either Mac or Yao aren't on the floor. Artest is a skilled offensive player, but clearly the third best on this team. We need to make changes in the game-plan so that all our players can be effective in positions they like to be in. In a sense that's why Adelman has been a disappointment, for an offensive genius, he's done nothing at all thus far to show that he's been trying to blend in their games.

Maybe I'm going to deep into this, and it's all about effort and movement which is lacking from McGrady every other game, but even if McGrady struggles, we should still have enough talent with Scola, Yao, Artest, Brooks, Landry, Alston and others to be a capable offensive team. There's no excuse for a team with this much talent to be so poor offensively. We're not recognizing mis-matches, and I think when our three players do, ESPECIALLY Yao and Mac, they don't attack, because they're more than happy deferring to each other. They don't play their game, they're passive and would rather someone else be the man, which in the end doesn't translate into the best they can possibly play. I'm not saying to be selfish, but recognize mis-matches, attack the basket, play your game and not only will it open up opportunities for themselves but for their teammates as well, which creates a more cohesive offensive unit. I think that's what made Kobe/Shaq so good too, despite the fact that Shaq was arguably the most dominant player to have ever played, Kobe played with Shaq well, but he didn't let his game go just because he's playing with Shaq, he went out there, and scored 24+ points per game and that opened up more for not only Shaq, but himself, and the same way the other way around. When you have stars that are playing their games to an extent where they're doing what they do best to an unselfish fault, then that's what a great team does.

We need Mac, Yao and Artest to play their games and recognize mis-matches, screw looking for teammates, if they have a chance to score, TAKE IT, and that'll open more chances for easier shots for each other and the role players to knock down open shots.

[bigbreakfast]

I tried to keep an optimistic outlook when Adelman came in and instilled this new system; it's been 1.5 years, it's not working. Yao is NOT a good shooter from outside the low post NOR is he a creative passer NOR are the houston players good at making cuts. I can't remember a single instance where something good has come out of the high post, most of the time it just ends up using most of the time on the shot clock; even in the past when the team has had success under Adelman it was running mostly the same old iso offense.

Yao may not be a dominant low post player and he may get blocked time to time by scrubs and he may turn the ball over a few times, but when he's comfortable in the low post he gives you 20+ points while shooting 50%, which is helluva lo better than what we have now. Right now he looks totally lost in the high post and his confidence in the low post has been shaken too, he's looking for and waiting for doubles to come and is not being assertive in the low post.

Basically, I really can't remember watching a game in the past 1.5 years where you thought to yourself, wow, this new offense is really working well.

[Baller 24]

I'm going to agree with compucomp, last season we got hyped up with the streak and while Yao was playing well we didn't realize it then. But right now this system has brought the worst of him, Rick needs to change the offensive scheme; and IMO its the only way we could use Yao effective if we want to compete.

[abcdef]

However, can you remember ANY good things that have happened with Yao up high? ANYTHING? I have watched the majority of the games this season and honestly I am having trouble remembering any good plays that have resulted from that set. He still can't hit the 18 footer, and as we saw in the Lakers game when he tries to make passes from there he is liable to get picked off.

I agree. The offense Adelman is trying to run isn't suiting Yao and the rest of this team. These guys are just not those kinds of players. All 3 of em need the ball to be effective and thats fine IMO. Boston had the same thing last year and won...The Spurs have been winning like that for a decade.

The main reason I was hyping the offense was b/c I think Yao is important to this team and he gets taken out of games too easily b/c he can't establish post position. I felt that if you moved him up high he would have the opportunity to affect the game in other ways and the offense would run smoother if we didn't spend 2/3 of the shot clock trying to get the ball into him in the post. Yao is not gonna get better at doing those things..I was hoping the offense could just offer him a chance to still be effective when he is struggling with post position.

The thing is though...the entire team just seems uncomfortable with what Adelman is preaching offensively. Its just not the identity of this team. We run traditional sets and those are effective. Our scoring is always low b/c we don't get easy baskets...but you don't need to be in the half court to get those...you gotta fast break and hit the boards offensively to try and get those.

It is really time to scrap that part of the offense and put Yao down low. Give him the ball and let him go to work. The only things that Yao has contributed have come when he is working in the low post or is battling in the paint. The offense was completely bogged down with missed jumper after missed jumper. The Spurs had single coverage on him today, and nobody got him the ball

It is time to scrap the offense I agree. But personally I am not sure Yao is up for the task of being the number 1 option on this team. Tonight for example...when we went to him in need of a basket...he turned it over. I would rather T-Mac or Artest launch some contested shot than have a turnover when the game is close. I think we have to find a way to play when Yao is struggling like he was tonight against Duncan instead of continually forcing him the ball.

Offensively he just seems to be on the decline and maybe it is the fact that he is taken out of his element playing the high post. But I just know that we can't spend 2/3 of the shot clock trying to get him the ball. We have to learn to deal with situations when he can't get position....

A lot of really bad things are happening with Houston right now. From the struggles of McGrady, Artest and Yao...to our inability to make open shots...to the inability to rebound (although thats been better these last 2 games). There are so many things that just seem to hold this team back. This team should not be playing this way. I think Adelman has lost this team by trying to force this offense on em. They just don't play hard unless something embarrassing happens to em.

Instead of spending two thirds of the shot clock waiting for Yao to establish position.... we wait for two thirds of the shot clock while Yao stands up high for cutters to open, which they won't, so Yao will pass to a guy at the three point line, set a screen for him, and then this guy will proceed to jack up a contested jumper.

Look, I know Yao looks awful and I think he has lost a step due to injuries or age or whatever. He probably doesn't have what it takes anymore to be a first option. But this does not mean you should put him up high. Use him like the Rockets used him in 2004-05 or Shaq in Miami, when Yao (and Shaq at that point) clearly did not have what it takes to be a first option; as a second-option low post scorer and finisher. Yao was reasonably effective that season, at least WAY more effective than he is now, and Shaq did well in that role even with a player like Wade who drives about as much as McGrady and Artest combined.

Yao needs to stay in the low post. If he can't handle first option number of touches, then give him second option touches, or whatever. But bringing him out high is just rendering him useless.

[tisbee]

Preying Mantis Yao,standing tall and making quick move-very good. Evil foe defenseless.
Crouching Tiger Yao,hunched over dribbling ball-very bad. Evil foe strips ball very easily.