How good do you think we really are and could be?

[hackle]

Guys, the season has come to the second month, we are 12-7, which is not that bad stat-wise. however, we lose to celtics, lakers, mavs once, and we lost some other pretty ugly games. That aside, I do not think we ever played solid, consistent basketball. There is hardly any system in our games. Once in a while we really showed up flashy and smooth, but then we sink to some atrocious bottom. Our stars are never really reliable, which i believe we all are aware.
So is this just an awkward transition? we need some more adjustments done? Or is this the same old rockets, how we are supposed to be despite the addition of artest, barry etc.? Personnally I never had any confidence in any game I watched, not like how the feeling Spurs used to give, or the celtics could give now. in a word, we are not SOLID.
So here comes the question, HOW GOOD ARE WE? or rather, how good could we be? could we ever be as solid as the Spurs and the Celtics? If yes then what is holding us back? Or are we never going to be that good, and we are heading for another 1st round exit? like marselaus wallace said:

YOU CAME CLOSE, BUT YOU NEVER MADE IT. IF YOU ARE GONNA MAKE IT, YOU COULD HAVE MADE IT BEFORE NOW.

so guys, lets hear some honest discussion. thanks.

[TMU]

Prior to our acquisition of Ron Artest, someone (it was either moofs or tha_rock220) mentioned that Artest will hurt our offense rather than contributing. He's right so far. Right now Yao and Artest are in a different page when it comes to running the offense. Yao has a tendency to score under a rather settled environment and after watching these games, I realized that Artest thrives under broken plays and in games that are somewhat fast-paced. Part of our offensive struggles has to do with Adelman's inability to come up an offensive scheme that utilizes both Yao's and Artest's strength. I think we can do a lot better than 94.8 PPG and 42.78% FG.

And our defense isn't bad as it looks. While we're 2nd in opposing PPG and 5th in opposing FG%, I think we can do better. I mean we have Battier and Artest, the two best perimeter defenders in the league. Again, we're not living up to our potential.




Anyway, like every year, this team will go far as McGrady goes. We need a healthy McGrady who gives at least 20 points and 5 assists.

Our fate starts in 3 weeks.

[mpsniper101]

WE HAVE NEVER BEEN HEALTHY. That's the sentence you can use for all those losses. Let me tell you about the losses we've had so far.

1) Boston - Yao Ming had a terrible game 12 pts or something like that, he missed open dunks and layups and we almost managed to win that game.. Why? Because of OUR DEFENSE.

2) Portland - Yao struggled once again, actually, the whole team struggled.. I don't remember anyone but Scola hitting the first half and then T-Mac by himself in the second half. We ALMOST came up with a win there too if it wasn't for a lucky shot by Roy.

3) Lakers - McGrady being sick after the Clippers game, I think he was 1-11 with only 3 pts, Yao with like another 12 pt performance and then Artest having only 3 pts.. T-Mac wasn't healthy in that game, and we were winning by 16 because of our second unit. This is the only legitimate loss IMO, but it won't be 27 ever again, T-Mac would never end up with only 3 pts and same goes with Yao and Artest.. We didn't have anything in the second half from anyone and then the Defense collapsed...

4) Spurs - We had the lead of 10 with 5 minutes to go. Our offense went in a drought and they hit 3's.. We didn't give Yao enough touches, there was no excuse for this game either, but if we had a healthy T-Mac, we would have got away with that game even with their run.

5) Mavericks - Terrible shooting, NO Yao, Terrible shooting, terrible shooting, terrible shooting, terrible shooting, terrible shooting... I could keep going on and on.. They also shot terrible because of our defense, but you can't win unless you score points.. We couldn't, score worth ****, mainly because Yao wasn't there and everything goes through him

6) Pacers - See the Spurs explanation above, Also T-Mac was out, Battier's first game (kind of messed up the offense a little bit)

7) Nuggets - Second night of a back to back, easily could have won this with rebounding and defending, we just gave up in the second half I thought.. Bad shots taken by numerous players (Artest, Rafer, Brooks), No Battier, No T-mac..

I'm just showing you all the loses and how we could have won each of them if we were healthy and if we played to our potential OR even a little below that. It's inexcusable to lose those two games though (Spurs and Pacers) when you are up by 10 with 5 minutes left in the 4th.

[moofs]

TMU we both did. So far, I think it's scary how good our record is considering how badly we've played and the statuses of our personnel.

The question is if, or at what point will it be saddening how well we could have played given what we should have? (read that carefully, I'm still emphasizing patience for now. Also it's currently rhetorical)

[hackle]

Poor shooting, health problem and all, those might contribute to losses, yes for sure, to a good extent. I am sure we can be much better when the players are all healthy, I am sure. but what worries me most is not that, is that we never seems to have any rhythm, we never display any solidity. when the spurs played without parker and ginobili, well they lose, but you can still see the good move of ball, you see good poise. hitting shots is one thing, creating shots is another. when we play, we barely have good spacing, when we have good spacing the ball dont arrive, when the ball arrives we dont make shot. of course not always like that but generally that's how we look every once in a while. good rhythm makes solidity, and i dont see that coming or being made. (appears our subs have much better rhythm than the starters.) is that also a patience thing? or should I rather believe something great is in the making?

[Julio]

TMU we both did. So far, I think it's scary how good our record is considering how badly we've played and the statuses of our personnel.

The question is if, or at what point will it be saddening how well we could have played given what we should have? (read that carefully, I'm still emphasizing patience for now. Also it's currently rhetorical)

If we again lose in the PO . And that depend when and where we lose .
Finals against the Celtics , or loss against the Lakers , I could take it if that's because they're better than us .
I could not stand , however , a loss against Jazz / Mavs / Spurs / Blazers .
We got to be better than those teams (and yes , I count the Spurs , even tough Parker is one of my favorites players , and this is the team I respect the most in the league ), or we would have wasted 2 years , and Adelman would have brought nothing .
I'm sure we'll make the PO .
It's a matter of how far we go .

A few points : Yes , we need a better McGrady . We need him going 18 19 points (please , Yao , score more than 20 , you're our best offensive option for god sake ) , and 6 assists . We need him because he's our best playmaker , because he draws attention , because he can take over games .
Yes , I was more optimistic when we got Artest , not knowing a lot about Ron , but thinking that because of Adelman , we could bring the best of Artest . As of now ? I just feel he does not bring to the table what he can . Defense ? Good , not great . Leadership ? Meh . Offense ? well , we all know now . He can be quite good in given situations , but stop shooting so dam 3 , so damn contested jumpers , and please Adelman , give him some room to operate .
Moving him to the bench would be a good idea too .
And I'm thinking more and more that our best 3rd option is not Artest : it's our PF .
They're the brught spots since the start of the year IMO , and again , Adelman does not use them well .
So no , I'm not disapointed in the team , I'm sometimes frustrated by Yao , Tracy , Rafer (a lot by Rafer ) , but most of all , I'm feeling Adelman does not manage to make the best with this team . And don't fool yourself , we're a talented team , not 10 players deep , but we do have good players , so we can be better than we are .

[ShaY]

Prior to our acquisition of Ron Artest, someone (it was either moofs or tha_rock220) mentioned that Artest will hurt our offense rather than contributing. He's right so far. Right now Yao and Artest are in a different page when it comes to running the offense. Yao has a tendency to score under a rather settled environment and after watching these games, I realized that Artest thrives under broken plays and in games that are somewhat fast-paced. Part of our offensive struggles has to do with Adelman's inability to come up an offensive scheme that utilizes both Yao's and Artest's strength. I think we can do a lot better than 94.8 PPG and 42.78% FG.

And our defense isn't bad as it looks. While we're 2nd in opposing PPG and 5th in opposing FG%, I think we can do better. I mean we have Battier and Artest, the two best perimeter defenders in the league. Again, we're not living up to our potential.




Anyway, like every year, this team will go far as McGrady goes. We need a healthy McGrady who gives at least 20 points and 5 assists.

Our fate starts in 3 weeks.

A lot of things will start to fall into place when we will be 100% healthy , Ron will come off the bench and play most of his minutes without Yao on the court.

I just hope T-Mac comes back 100% because if not we are doomed.

[2fast4u]

as good as winning the olympic gold medal

[BaYBaller]

Yeah injuries have been an issue but one thing I want to point out is that we are a vastly different team when Yao is on the court compared to when our 2nd unit is in, which can really mess up your offensive rhythm. You can see Adelman is trying to set a consistent starting unit and 2nd unit, but it's hard with all the injuries. Remember that our starting 5 the past 2 years have been very, very good. One of the top starting 5s in the league. Our 2nd unit has always been our weakness, and this year it should be one of our strengths.

Come April I'm pretty sure we're going to see Artest coming off the bench.

[moofs]

And I'm thinking more and more that our best 3rd option is not Artest : it's our PF .
They're the brught spots since the start of the year IMO , and again , Adelman does not use them well .

I've said that since partyway through last season. The thing that's surprised me is how much of an option (and how fast he's become one) Aaron Brooks is. Artest, it seems, should eventually be a perimeter 3 point gunner who can post or drive [i]some[i], but whether he'll settle for that is anyone's guess. The ankle injury he supposedly has may be affecting that too, though.

[Julio]

And I'm thinking more and more that our best 3rd option is not Artest : it's our PF .
They're the brught spots since the start of the year IMO , and again , Adelman does not use them well .

I've said that since partyway through last season. The thing that's surprised me is how much of an option (and how fast he's become one) Aaron Brooks is. Artest, it seems, should eventually be a perimeter 3 point gunner who can post or drive [i]some[i], but whether he'll settle for that is anyone's guess. The ankle injury he supposedly has may be affecting that too, though.

Agree , agree , agree.
100% for playing Brooks more ; still thinks Rafer has to be our starting PG , notably beacause he can distribute and defend , but that will be an open question when Tracy's back , beacause he does a lot of the playmaking issues.

[Iggyemu]

How good are we? We are a decent team. With the state of the West minus the Lakers...thats been good enough to keep us in the mix of things. I still think we are too small and we don't have the type offensive execution either in the half court or in transition that would allow us to get easy baskets and open up our offense more so we can hang with the better offensive teams in this league.

How good can we be? If we get our ducks in a row. Everyone healthy or at least able to play and contribute in an impactful way. If we get another 6'10+ guy up front I think we could go to the Western conference Finals and give the Lakers a series. Sometimes I think we are often so injures that we never realize what we are missing b/c we seldom know what we have b/c of the injuries. From the little I have seen with everyone on the court together....I think we need another big body to help Yao on the boards. There may be other things even. Things you realize you lack but know you lack it when you see everyone healthy.

I think the other tough teams in the West will be the Spurs and Jazz for sure. I think we can hang with those guys when we are healthy so I give us a chance to make the WCF if everything goes well....but that seldom happens. I truly think this era...McGrady/Yao era...is coming to an end very very soon.

[Julio]

How good are we? We are a decent team. With the state of the West minus the Lakers...thats been good enough to keep us in the mix of things. I still think we are too small and we don't have the type offensive execution either in the half court or in transition that would allow us to get easy baskets and open up our offense more so we can hang with the better offensive teams in this league.

How good can we be? If we get our ducks in a row. Everyone healthy or at least able to play and contribute in an impactful way. If we get another 6'10+ guy up front I think we could go to the Western conference Finals and give the Lakers a series. Sometimes I think we are often so injures that we never realize what we are missing b/c we seldom know what we have b/c of the injuries. From the little I have seen with everyone on the court together....I think we need another big body to help Yao on the boards. There may be other things even. Things you realize you lack but know you lack it when you see everyone healthy.

I think the other tough teams in the West will be the Spurs and Jazz for sure. I think we can hang with those guys when we are healthy so I give us a chance to make the WCF if everything goes well....but that seldom happens. I truly think this era...McGrady/Yao era...is coming to an end very very soon.

Some points :
I agree about the not getting enough easy baskets . And that's , IMO , is an Adelman failure . That was what he was supposed to give us . On the fastbreak , we do have Brooks , Rafer and Ron putting pressure , coming up with steals , Scola hustling on every damn ball , and that should lead us to fastbreak points . except , for the game I've watched , we are a decent fastbreak team . Not a good one.
Easy opportunity on the half court?
It seems going inside out , we are getting better at that . Only thing is , night when Yao will not be good , this offense will suffer IMO . And we have yet to see TMac and Artest playing with that offense . Both need shoots , both needs the damn ball . We have to be better on making open shoots and offensive execution . Somehow disapointed by Brent on that aspect -also by Rafer , but that's not a surprise .
Our defense is still what's gonna win games for us , and I think we can be even better than we are now . Artest can be way better , Battier will get better as his conditionning will come back . Only problem I see is that when Tracy comes back , our defense will suffer (or if it don't , it will mean that he's very healthy and very commited to defense...unlikely ) , and by playing Brooks more , we allow one weak spot on defense .
I like this team chance if we could gel more , but I'm disapointed by Yao and Tracy , I'm disapointed by Adelman , beacause he did not take us to another level , and I'm disapointed by Ron as of now .
Still a work in progress , and thank god for this schedule . Counting back the days Tracy is with the team , and hoping he takes rehab with diligence .

[CuttingEdge]

Artest will get better as his ankle heals and probably be the replacement or dismissal of Tracy. TMac has got to realise that this might happen and him and his hefty contract will be moved not this summer but this February coming up or earlier to get a couple good bigs and another playmaker. It is imminent if he doesn't come back and try to save his job. This team will move on.

[ShaY]

Artest will get better as his ankle heals and probably be the replacement or dismissal of Tracy. TMac has got to realise that this might happen and him and his hefty contract will be moved not this summer but this February coming up or earlier to get a couple good bigs and another playmaker. It is imminent if he doesn't come back and try to save his job. This team will move on.

My god how fast people forget.
T-Mac is still the best player on this team and he will prove it when he gets back.

[Baller 24]

As of right now, I don't agree with that statement at all. He has the capability of being the best player on the team, but as of right now, no that's not true at all. His impact may prove to have been big over the years, but right now, that's simply not the case.

0% aggressiveness, his mentality is gone, he seems lazy due to the fact we got Artest on the team, but that's McGrady for you, in an interview in 2007, McGrady said he was happy to be on the Rockets, because now he had a guy like Yao that can handle the pressure of scoring, etc. Couple of years later you add Ron Artest, his thinking his basically is...I don't have to do as much work, if I have this much talent around me. His mentality seems just like his cousin in 2004 in Toronto.

Lets hope he proves people wrong.

[ShaY]

As of right now, I don't agree with that statement at all. He has the capability of being the best player on the team, but as of right now, no that's not true at all. His impact may prove to have been big over the years, but right now, that's simply not the case.

0% aggressiveness, his mentality is gone, he seems lazy due to the fact we got Artest on the team, but that's McGrady for you, in an interview in 2007, McGrady said he was happy to be on the Rockets, because now he had a guy like Yao that can handle the pressure of scoring, etc. Couple of years later you add Ron Artest, his thinking his basically is...I don't have to do as much work, if I have this much talent around me. His mentality seems just like his cousin in 2004 in Toronto.

Lets hope he proves people wrong.

The T-Mac we saw this year is definetly not the best player on the team but I believe he will come back 100% and be our best player once again.

Lets not judge him yet based on this year yet , he was playing af half of his abilities , lets wee what he can do when he comes back 100%.

I agree that he takes it more easy when there is more talent around him , but every star player including Kobe say they love to have more talent so they won't have to do as much everynight , and I am not comparing him to Kobe , or using that as an excuse , I am just giving an example.

Don't count him out yet like you counted out our team 2 weeks ago and said the season is over and we are no good.

Last year he could have easily given up on the season after Yao went down because it was obvious we can't win , but instead if shutting it down and get the surgerys he needed , he played through it , got us to the playoffs and was able to klead his temmates for 2 wins against a completly hekathy Jazz team without Yao and without Rafer for half of the series.

[moofs]

McGrady's right. He's not efficient enough to handle the scoring load and shouldn't be called on to do so unless necessary. It's bad for the team. Yao should have been our primary scorer since 2004-2005, and McGrady might've tried to get him in that slot to start the season (remember the 19-20ppg avg he started out with), but it didn't work at the time (lots of losing wrapped with that). I wonder if he always starts out slow (this season excluded due to health) because he's trying to find a more efficient scorer available on the team. Just because you can get off your shot at just about any time doesn't mean you should be trying to. That said, just once I'd like to see him come in shooting efficiently.

[Baller 24]

The T-Mac we saw this year is definetly not the best player on the team but I believe he will come back 100% and be our best player once again.

Lets not judge him yet based on this year yet , he was playing af half of his abilities , lets wee what he can do when he comes back 100%.

Last year he wasn't the best player either during the regular season IMO. He did a great job of carrying this team, and showing his leadership after Yao went down, but our other players stepped up when they had too.

I agree that he takes it more easy when there is more talent around him , but every star player including Kobe say they love to have more talent so they won't have to do as much everynight , and I am not comparing him to Kobe , or using that as an excuse , I am just giving an example.

The difference is the mentality, work ethic, and aggressiveness. Kobe still has all that, when he needs to pick up the slack and take over he does it, this season I haven't seen that aggressiveness from McGrady.

Don't count him out yet like you counted out our team 2 weeks ago and said the season is over and we are no good.

Last year he could have easily given up on the season after Yao went down because it was obvious we can't win , but instead if shutting it down and get the surgerys he needed , he played through it , got us to the playoffs and was able to klead his temmates for 2 wins against a completly hekathy Jazz team without Yao and without Rafer for half of the series.

The counting us out thing is simply just out of frustration, the playoff thing was very amazing; not going to lie, but at the time he was very aggressive, and he knew he had the carry the load some how, he did put up 28/7/7/42%. I'm not counting him out, no; but the same thing happened last year, and he still ended up shooting very poor. The first 14 games of the season, McGrady was averaging 26/6/5/45%, this is fully healthy McGrady; before Shoulder or Knee issues. He took some time off, nothing happened, lets hope this time off this time around is worth it.

Don't get me wrong, I hope he proves me wrong, but it just seems like its more of a mental psychological issue.

[ShaY]

The T-Mac we saw this year is definetly not the best player on the team but I believe he will come back 100% and be our best player once again.

Lets not judge him yet based on this year yet , he was playing af half of his abilities , lets wee what he can do when he comes back 100%.

Last year he wasn't the best player either during the regular season IMO. He did a great job of carrying this team, and showing his leadership after Yao went down, but our other players stepped up when they had too.

I agree that he takes it more easy when there is more talent around him , but every star player including Kobe say they love to have more talent so they won't have to do as much everynight , and I am not comparing him to Kobe , or using that as an excuse , I am just giving an example.

The difference is the mentality, work ethic, and aggressiveness. Kobe still has all that, when he needs to pick up the slack and take over he does it, this season I haven't seen that aggressiveness from McGrady.

Don't count him out yet like you counted out our team 2 weeks ago and said the season is over and we are no good.

Last year he could have easily given up on the season after Yao went down because it was obvious we can't win , but instead if shutting it down and get the surgerys he needed , he played through it , got us to the playoffs and was able to klead his temmates for 2 wins against a completly hekathy Jazz team without Yao and without Rafer for half of the series.

The counting us out thing is simply just out of frustration, the playoff thing was very amazing; not going to lie, but at the time he was very aggressive, and he knew he had the carry the load some how, he did put up 28/7/7/42%. I'm not counting him out, no; but the same thing happened last year, and he still ended up shooting very poor. The first 14 games of the season, McGrady was averaging 26/6/5/45%, this is fully healthy McGrady; before Shoulder or Knee issues. He took some time off, nothing happened, lets hope this time off this time around is worth it.

Don't get me wrong, I hope he proves me wrong, but it just seems like its more of a mental psychological issue.

The reason you didn't see it this season yet from Mcgrady because he has looked like a shadow of his former self , he couldn't run , he couldn't jump and he was slow , thats why he wanted to sit out because he wasn't him self out there.
T-Mac always upped his lever of play in the playoffs and carried us in the regular season when Yao went down , always.

IMO just like when you were talking about frustration about the team you are doing the same about T-Mac , he wasn't healthy and he was playing very very limited out there , him trying to take over and show aggressivnes would just hurt our team because he is not there physically and not him self out there.

But be patient he will be back 100% and look like him self again , and he will be there for us when we need him.

He can't go all out 100% of the time and thats what seperates him from Kobe and Lebron and others , maybe it's because of his mentality , maybe it's because he is so injury prone , IMO it's a little bit of both.

We need to learn to accept that because he WILL show up when we need him , and he tried to be there for his teammates early this year too , even when he knew he can't do half of the things he normally does.