Yao vs. fronting!!!

[hackle]

why can't Yao play like this 80% of the time?

That's the million dollar question. And if Yao can do this 80%, Rockets might already have won a championship. Not too late for yao to show his consistency though

Guys I did watch the game (vs. hawks) on TV, so i dont know if the hawks fronted Yao or not. They did alright 24pt on 11-20, 19 boards, 5 to.

Thing is, when Yao plays against real center, like Howard, dunch, karman and likewise, he is more likely to take advantage because he is virtually unstoppable one on one.

anyway, when facing teams with smaller size or with no really matching center, when they front him and surround him and hack him, Yao becomes a hesitant and awkward player, he gets confused easily. like last game with Memphis.

It's been for years and He never figured out a good way against fronting and hacking, once in a while he seems to have got it, but then the next game he looks like a rookie. So when it counts the most, e.g. in the play-offs, he sucks.

is it that he never learns? or is it something else? let's hear some serious discussion (yet again_)

[smapor]

Atlanta did front 1 time, Rafer had a perfect pass. Landed right to Yao for 2+1.

However fronting takes effort from the team, meaning.

- Yao has to fight through the front
- We can't look obvious when we want to pass it to Yao (Ric has done a much better job on this)
-Quicker passes
-If he is fronted hard, than the player must either cut or swing pass it to the weakside and make them pay for fronting

Its a combination of things. I don't think Fronting is what's stopping Yao. Its all Mental, if he just plays aggressive, stop thinking so much (the pass, the double teams, the offensive fouls), he would be silky smooth.

Yao = good player

Aggressive Yao = what the Rocket fans are waiting for.

You can see it with rebounds also, today he didn't even want Luis Scola to get rebounds, other days he just boxes out and watches the rebounds go to his teamate. You look at DH, he goes after every rebound, screw boxing out or teamates. Basically DH is saying "Every rebound is mine". Thats what Yao needs, an aggressive identity.

I blame that on his culture, he probably will never get it. Look at Yi, another chinese player who lacks aggressiveness. He is suppose to be some high flying dunker, the man barely dunks in the NBA.

Not being raciest but almost all the Asian players in the NBA who played, all have the same mentality. "Too nice"

How many times have we wished Yao would just floor somebody who tried to dunk on him. Do you know why people wanted to avoid dunking on Shaq, its because he laid you out on the floor.

[abcdef]

The solution to fronting is and has always been:

1. Move the ball, make quick and sharp passes
2. Have Yao move across the lane and seal, if that doesn't work then
3. Someone is sitting on the backside helping the guy fronting, this guy is guarding someone, pass the ball to that guy and have him attack

Against the Grizzlies, the ball movement was slow, and Artest was out so nobody attacked and took advantage of the fronting, and Yao did not help his own cause at all by sucking.

[HTown_TMac]

When they front Yao someone should be on the baseline ready to run the baseline while using Yao as a pick... do that a few times and it frees up the fronting then we go back to yao...

[MaxRider]

are you saying Memphis without a true center?
so Marc Gasol and Darko Milicic are PF

[hackle]

are you saying Memphis without a true center?
so Marc Gasol and Darko Milicic are PF

So true center and fronting? That's frightening. Maybe good center? center who think they should be defending Yao basically one on one, center with ego....

[YiOF]

After trying to find excuses for Yao for so long, I've come to realize it's all mental with him. If teams front him and rough him up some, and if he doesn't get calls, he just gets really frustrated and play passive. He's just mentally weak, it takes something drastic to get some emotion out of him. An embarrassing loss or getting dunked on seems to get some fire under him. Tmac is equally bad when it comes down to mental toughness, hopefully artest will provide the fire we need come playoffs.

[tha_rock220]

Yao needs to get past his damn "I should treat my opponents with respect" mentality and fight for position. Too often he just lets guys get in front of him and does nothing.

Then when he does fight for position he needs to get the damn ball. None of this holding it up with the intent of making the entry before reversing the ball or dribbling. Just make the damn pass.

Also, Rick Adelman needs to stop with his stubborn stupidity and design some offensive sets to get Yao the ball down low. I would start with who ever is at the four setting a cross screen to free up Yao then sitting whoever doesn't get him the ball when the Rockets do that.

Anybody remember Bob Sura and his refusal to post up Yao??? The dude would make the entry to Juwan Howard before Yao.

[Yao21]

When they front Yao someone should be on the baseline ready to run the baseline while using Yao as a pick... do that a few times and it frees up the fronting then we go back to yao...

Wow, why have the Rockets never try that?

[hackle]

After trying to find excuses for Yao for so long, I've come to realize it's all mental with him. If teams front him and rough him up some, and if he doesn't get calls, he just gets really frustrated and play passive. He's just mentally weak, it takes something drastic to get some emotion out of him. An embarrassing loss or getting dunked on seems to get some fire under him. Tmac is equally bad when it comes down to mental toughness, hopefully artest will provide the fire we need come playoffs.

Man this is so correct.

[TMACFORMVP]

Fronting is the biggest issue with this team and Yao, he doesn't fight hard enough when they front him, and those smaller/athletic players that can stretch the floor with even a decent mid-range shot seem to get the best of him. Then we take nearly 20 seconds of the shot-clock trying to get him the ball, and it results in a poor shot. He's got to man up on the fronts and we have to deliver better passes.

[langer]

After trying to find excuses for Yao for so long, I've come to realize it's all mental with him. If teams front him and rough him up some, and if he doesn't get calls, he just gets really frustrated and play passive. He's just mentally weak, it takes something drastic to get some emotion out of him. An embarrassing loss or getting dunked on seems to get some fire under him. Tmac is equally bad when it comes down to mental toughness, hopefully artest will provide the fire we need come playoffs.

That is exactly why this team should be an Artest team. I did a little extra design when I was bored at work. check it out！

[TMU]

Fronting is the biggest issue with this team and Yao, he doesn't fight hard enough when they front him, and those smaller/athletic players that can stretch the floor with even a decent mid-range shot seem to get the best of him. Then we take nearly 20 seconds of the shot-clock trying to get him the ball, and it results in a poor shot. He's got to man up on the fronts and we have to deliver better passes.

Dead on.
Mental or not, he needs to fight for his spot. I know it takes a lot of effort to seal your man and fight for position, but you gotta suck it up. Yao's inconsistency in getting position has to do with his impoverished stamina which rose from his previous injuries.

[TMU]

After trying to find excuses for Yao for so long, I've come to realize it's all mental with him. If teams front him and rough him up some, and if he doesn't get calls, he just gets really frustrated and play passive. He's just mentally weak, it takes something drastic to get some emotion out of him. An embarrassing loss or getting dunked on seems to get some fire under him. Tmac is equally bad when it comes down to mental toughness, hopefully artest will provide the fire we need come playoffs.

That is exactly why this team should be an Artest team. I did a little extra design when I was bored at work. check it out！

Nice, I like it.

[HTown_TMac]

When they front Yao someone should be on the baseline ready to run the baseline while using Yao as a pick... do that a few times and it frees up the fronting then we go back to yao...

Wow, why have the Rockets never try that?

Cant tell if this is sarcasm, but I have never seen it done.

And that picture is nice - Tru Warier

[hackle]

So basically we agree Yao's not being able to deal with fronting is a mental thing. to overcome this, he should start attacking the rim hard early in the game, dont let it rough his mind up, stay strong.

However, he fails to do this every now and then. He is a smart guy so i think he knows it better than anybody else, it must be a implementational thing. Therefore, let's me put it simply:
"Why is Yao so frustrating? Because he gets frustrated too easy".

when he fix his mind and play really tough, we will see a different yao and a different team.

[abcdef]

So basically we agree Yao's not being able to deal with fronting is a mental thing. to overcome this, he should start attacking the rim hard early in the game, dont let it rough his mind up, stay strong.

However, he fails to do this every now and then. He is a smart guy so i think he knows it better than anybody else, it must be a implementational thing. Therefore, let's me put it simply:
"Why is Yao so frustrating? Because he gets frustrated too easy".

when he fix his mind and play really tough, we will see a different yao and a different team.

No, it is not a mental thing, and Yao can't attack the rim if he doesn't have the ball. It requires that the team and he be in sync. If the ball doesn't move, or the passes are not sharp, or if Yao doesn't fight hard for position/can't move fast enough/can't catch passes/etc, then the Rockets turn the ball over or are forced to take a bad shot late in the possession.

Fronting is a form of team defense; basically the guy fronting says "I don't want you to catch the ball" and trusts his teammates to protect his backside. It takes team offense to beat team defense. Therefore, if the passing is off, or if Yao is not doing his job sealing (he is part of the team), then they can't beat the front. But it is not "mental", as you describe it. It is simply a failure of execution by Yao and his teammates. It did not help in Memphis that Artest was out and people were shoehorned into different roles than usual.

[BaYBaller]

It's not mental at all. Well, that is to say Yao not being able to stop the fronting is not mental. He just does not have the athleticism to catch lob passes very well. Why do you think he loses so many tips? The mere fact that so much work and focus has been put into trying to get the ball to Yao through team ball movement instead of even risking to lob it is proof of this. We already have players screening for Yao when he goes block-to-block, and we already swing the ball around from strong to weak side in hopes to shake Yao free. It works at times, but it eats up so much clock that if it doesn't work it more often than not ends up in a bad shot. This would all be less of an issue if we had more players who could penetrate because if the center fronts Yao, that means he's not there to challenge shots at the rim.

On the otherhand fronting affecting his game is mental as it very often frustrates him and affects his overall game, i.e. most of his poor rebounding nights is when he is fronted, which is counter intuitive. Yao is very self-critical of himself and it sometimes leads to frustration.

[TMU]

Fronting is a form of team defense; basically the guy fronting says "I don't want you to catch the ball" and trusts his teammates to protect his backside. It takes team offense to beat team defense. Therefore, if the passing is off, or if Yao is not doing his job sealing (he is part of the team), then they can't beat the front. But it is not "mental", as you describe it. It is simply a failure of execution by Yao and his teammates. It did not help in Memphis that Artest was out and people were shoehorned into different roles than usual.

And that's the reason why the fronting defense is powerful against those so called "traditional centers". If the ball is thrown too close, the guy who's positioned in front of Yao will steal the ball, and if the ball is throw too far, the guy who's positioned behind Yao will steal the ball.

I agree with your post, it takes good ball movement and help from the weakside. But I do feel that Yao needs to work harder when he's fighting for his position.

[YaoisGodsAnswer]

Ways to Abuse opponents who Front Yao

- Have an athletic, one who can create his own shot, like Wafer be the pg trying to pass to a Fronted Yao

- Yao is fronted and will use Gasol against his teammate that is guarding Wafer.

-Wafer crosses over and drives to the basket, while the person guarding Wafer is picked off by a fronting Gasol. So basically Gasol takes his own teammate out because he is fronting Yao.

- An easy layup everytime or when the PF that has Luis comes over to help stop Wafer, Wafer passes to Luis at last second for an easy layup.

Also another way piss off the Fronter is have Yao pull the chair everytime.

Just clear out the side that Yao is getting fronted and have them play 2v2 basketball.