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Something to note, the Rockets are currently on a 13 game winning streak when using the lineup of Alston-Tmac-Battier-Scola-Yao. Anyways, from what we've seen today, without Artest the Rockets have better ball movement, McGrady makes a lot more plays, and the shot selection throughout the entire game was very smooth from all of our players.

So statistically speaking, Ron Artest takes the most shots on our team when in the game (and in the starting lineup). His usage percentage of the ball is pretty high, with when McGrady is on the court it takes away from his play making. I think its best to bench Artest and bring him off the bench, this starting lineup has a 13 game winning streak, and has always showcased success and team chemistry in the past. Lets have Ron play a high number of minutes, but with him anchoring that 2nd unit rather then the first.

Artest is an efficient driver; he can get to the hole, but a problem is that he isn't finishing due to the clogged up paint Yao brings with him. Ron Artest can be a mismatch, but on the same aspect when he has the ball in his hands, he takes a lot of shots, while creating a sufficient amount of plays on offense.

We played against the worst defensive team in the league and just a week ago we scored 131 points on them with Artest and without McGrady.

Yeah, agreed with the Warriors not being the best example to use, but I've always been in favor of bringing Artest off the bench in a Ginobili type role. Either way, all three have to find a way to play together to the best of their abilities.

True, but doesn't the starting unit seem more smooth on the offensive end? Ball movement, play making, and scoring are all running very fine, and at all high levels. From what we've seen so far in the season, when McGrady-Artest-Yao are on the court at the same time, Artest ends up handling the ball, and taking the most amount of shots out of all 3 of them. Hes a great player, nasty defender, and all, but him anchoring the 2nd unit IMO is a better idea, rather having them in the starting lineup.

Mcgrady is a far superior playmaker than Artest no doubt.

With that said I felt like after the Denver game where Artest looked horrible he really started to understand more what to do and looked better working with the team.

Once he comes back I hope Adelman does bring him off the bench because I think thats better for the team , but also for him.

with a lineup of Alston , Mcgrady , Battier , Scola , Yao.

And Artest , Brooks , Landry the primamry options off the bench I feel like we can beat anybody , even while Mcgrady works him self into shape , Yao too and we try to get the chemistry down.

Baller 24 wrote:True, but doesn't the starting unit seem more smooth on the offensive end? Ball movement, play making, and scoring are all running very fine, and at all high levels. From what we've seen so far in the season, when McGrady-Artest-Yao are on the court at the same time, Artest ends up handling the ball, and taking the most amount of shots out of all 3 of them. Hes a great player, nasty defender, and all, but him anchoring the 2nd unit IMO is a better idea, rather having them in the starting lineup.

I agree with you , Artest drawing attention and commanding double teams with the 2nd unit is what can take us to the next level in the playoffs.

And in the end of games he can still be on the floor as a lock down defender , spot up shooter and a skilled offenssive player next to Yao and T-Mac.

Baller 24 wrote:True, but doesn't the starting unit seem more smooth on the offensive end? Ball movement, play making, and scoring are all running very fine, and at all high levels. From what we've seen so far in the season, when McGrady-Artest-Yao are on the court at the same time, Artest ends up handling the ball, and taking the most amount of shots out of all 3 of them. Hes a great player, nasty defender, and all, but him anchoring the 2nd unit IMO is a better idea, rather having them in the starting lineup.

JVG made this point during the broadcast, that with all 3 stars the offense became awfully stagnant. I think a similar thing happened with McGrady out and Artest in, the movement on offense picked up. Basically if Artest is out we have what we had last year, which was acceptable offense, and if McGrady is out and Artest is in, we have what we saw the last 7 games, both of which are acceptable, but we need to find a way to make all 3 guys effective, like the Celtics have done.

I've always believed this, and I personally think it'd be best if Artest plays off the bench. Knowing that McGrady and Yao will get most of the touches, you need to complement the two with players who are efficient without the ball. Battier moves well off the ball, he's the better passer and the better spot-up shooter.

If his ego permits, I'd like to see Artest come off the bench when all of our key players return to the court.

T-Mac United wrote:I've always believed this, and I personally think it'd be best if Artest plays off the bench. Knowing that McGrady and Yao will get most of the touches, you need to complement the two with players who are efficient without the ball. Battier moves well off the ball, he's the better passer and the better spot-up shooter.

If his ego permits, I'd like to see Artest come off the bench when all of our key players return to the court.

It would definitely be something to try when Artest comes back, because Battier is healthy now.

But another point that JVG made I think is highly salient is who will close the game. You've got 3 wing players and 2 wing spots. JVG made the point that Battier would be the one to take his spot on the bench and let McGrady/Artest play, but he's the one you really want out there. If we try to go with all 3 at the same time, then either Artest has to play PF, in which case he is a bit undersized, or we have to go with McGrady at PG, which means that he will have trouble guarding small, quick PG's. I guess it will depend on matchups and the flow of the particular game.

abcdef wrote:

T-Mac United wrote:I've always believed this, and I personally think it'd be best if Artest plays off the bench. Knowing that McGrady and Yao will get most of the touches, you need to complement the two with players who are efficient without the ball. Battier moves well off the ball, he's the better passer and the better spot-up shooter.

If his ego permits, I'd like to see Artest come off the bench when all of our key players return to the court.

It would definitely be something to try when Artest comes back, because Battier is healthy now.

But another point that JVG made I think is highly salient is who will close the game. You've got 3 wing players and 2 wing spots. JVG made the point that Battier would be the one to take his spot on the bench and let McGrady/Artest play, but he's the one you really want out there. If we try to go with all 3 at the same time, then either Artest has to play PF, in which case he is a bit undersized, or we have to go with McGrady at PG, which means that he will have trouble guarding small, quick PG's. I guess it will depend on matchups and the flow of the particular game.

Yeah, JVG made an important discussion during the game, and I can't disagree with his statement or your proposition. Battier needs to stay out on the court regardless what the circumstances are.

Under crunch minutes, our lineup depends on the matchups but for most of the time, I think we'll have Yao, Battier, McGrady, Artest and Rafer. I'm not sure how clutch Scola is. Adelman rarely played him during those stretches, and as I'm reading 82games.com, I don't see a significant data that describes whether or not he should stay on the court.

The thing about Scola one can't overlook , is how he understands his own skills , how he does not get in the way of Yao (same with Landry ) and how he creates space . He's also a willing cutter , and sets good picks . So basically , he's good on offense for our chemistry and flow , even if we know he won't take the last shoots . Not sure about Artest doing all those things . But maybe regarding to matchup Ron will be on the floor if Luis can't guard his man .

Its up to the coach to put it all together. All 3 guys are different types of player with different strengths. IMO it should line up b/c McGrady is a the playmaker this team needs...Artest is good off screens and in the post and Yao of course is a big man

I think the main thing is gonna be unclogging the lane for Artest. That'll mean that Yao is gonna have to hit the 15 foot jump shot with regularity. It really isn't up to the these 3 guys. The only thing they can control is doing whatever is the coach asks. And they have done that.....Adelman has to put it all together.

Iggyemu wrote:Its up to the coach to put it all together. All 3 guys are different types of player with different strengths. IMO it should line up b/c McGrady is a the playmaker this team needs...Artest is good off screens and in the post and Yao of course is a big man

I think the main thing is gonna be unclogging the lane for Artest. That'll mean that Yao is gonna have to hit the 15 foot jump shot with regularity. It really isn't up to the these 3 guys. The only thing they can control is doing whatever is the coach asks. And they have done that.....Adelman has to put it all together.

Yeah , I agree about that ; as a matter of fact , I was reading something on the Player Comparison board about Webber , and that one Kings fan (he's a mod also ) said that Webber wasn't entierely to be blamed for his lack of post play , that Adelman had a tendancy to go too much with the system , and to never change it ...
IMO he's a bit stubborn , and he tryes to force too much the team into the system , whereas IMO some of his ideas (ball movement , guys cutting and all ) are good , but some things (like Yao too much in the high post ) are not great .
I , for the few games I've seen , always found we were better when the ball moved a lot , when we were taking good shoots , and when we have a lot of guys in double figure . I hope Artest and McGrady can get that in their head , Yao seems to understand it .

I hope and believe Artest will accept the role of 6th man off the bench , he will be able to abuse lesser player , be the focal point of the offense while still finishing games.

He will, Artest himself has said multiple times that hes willing to play any role on this team. Surprisingly, I know its only been 20 something games this season, but Artest has been on very good behavior, especially with the media and how he opens his mouth.

ShaY wrote:I hope and believe Artest will accept the role of 6th man off the bench , he will be able to abuse lesser player , be the focal point of the offense while still finishing games.

Adelman just needs to sit ron down and say...I'll let u play with the second unit...and u can do whatever you like (jack up bad shots, etc)...but at the end of games....you are in there to shut down players and move the ball. Is that okay? If it isn't to him, then sit him out at the end of the games.

Everyone sees how good our offense is when T-mac/artest arent playing at the same time. Lets just say Yao always plays...cuz he's our only real big man. T-mac and artest are the offensive stoppers. They kill any kind of team offense/momentum you might have with their ball hogging/bad shot-taking selfs. T-mac is not as bad b/c he still makes some good passes sometimes. I kinda like how G-mac is hurt b/c at least now he knows he can't take that many shots and should pass the ball more. There's nothing wrong with getting 8 assists early to Yao, scola, landry...and then if the defense plays off him, to score like 14 straight. I'm sure his numbers won't even decrease much, if any.

I think it's unfair to say Artest hurts the total offense however b/c if you play him with the 2nd unit he could have crazy numbers like he had in Sac. Artest needs the ball in his hands and when you're with Yao, who gets high percentage shots, you can demand and hog the ball as much as ron does. Its the coach's job to set the players straight.

Artests can either start or come off the bench IMO, he hasn't learned everybody niche spot and is playing on crap ankles... Give the man a break. I'm sure he can be a play maker once he's moving better..

Iggyemu wrote:I think the main thing is gonna be unclogging the lane for Artest. That'll mean that Yao is gonna have to hit the 15 foot jump shot with regularity. It really isn't up to the these 3 guys. The only thing they can control is doing whatever is the coach asks. And they have done that.....Adelman has to put it all together.

Forget it. This will never happen. He simply cannot hit that shot, which you would see if you watched yesterday, along with the fact that teams have caught on to the fact that he is utterly incapable of hitting that shot; he was UTTERLY uncontested on those shots and he could not hit them. JVG said it when he said that Yao is an 85% FT shooter but a below average shooter from midrange.

Besides, if you don't like Yao for playing soft, now you want him to play even softer? If he is shooting midrange jumpshots he is not in the lane drawing attention and getting to the line. Simply put it is a suboptimal shot to begin with, and Yao can't hit it. Adelman has apparently caught on, and we have seen very little of Yao in the high post in the last 2-3 weeks.

Yao simply put cannot play at the high post. This is obvious to anyone who watches the games. He might be ineffective sometimes in the low post because he is in a year-long funk, but he is completely useless all the time in the high post.

Yup, he hasn't been playing in the high post all that much, and its translating into good ball movement, less clogged paint, and overall hes just playing better with less turnovers, and more effectiveness.

This season, 36% of Yao's FGA has been jumpshots and he's been shooting them at 38.7% eFG.