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Thinking about how this would have turned out, obviously the 2008 team had a lot more talent and depth compared to the 2007 team. We upgraded heavily at the power forward positions, and overall had a lot more players that were good hustlers, offensive players, and defenders.

So lets say JVG had the 2008 roster of guys, how would the 2008 season have turned out with the injuries and problems faced early on?

Also, how would the current roster be playing with JVG as our head coach?

Personally, I thought JVG was the best coach that new how to use Yao most effectively. McGrady's been himself, injures have kept him back as usual; but this season his body language seems god awful. JVG brought the toughness. McGrady in an interview stated that Jeff made him play aggressive the entire time he was on the court, even if they had a 20 point lead, he'd force him to take more shots, and be aggressive throughout the entire game. Defensively we'd probably be a lot better, offensively in 2007; Jeff didn't have a problem with scoring, at times it looked bad, but even then they still scored 97 a game. While this time around Jeff would have a lot more offensive arsenal to throw out there.

Anyways, so yeah, 2008 Rockets under JVG, and current Rockets under JVG, better or worse? explain why?

It's played out how everybody expected it would. Defense getting worse, offense getting better. The only thing was the change was not as drastic as people expected, as in the defense/offense only got slightly worse/better.

I agree that JVG is probably a better coach for T-Mac because JVG is a motivator, and T-Mac needs somebody to motivate him because he is quite moody. Yao however could thrive under almost any coach because of his work ethic. Adelman has put in quite a few wrinkles in the offense that are of benefit to Yao and has done an outstanding job with the 2nd unit.

Also IMO I really do not believe a player like Brooks would've ever gotten much burn under JVG given his defensive liabilities. You most assuredly would not see a Brooks-Barry backcourt from JVG like we've seen this season.

I do believe that we would not be as good of a position we are this season if JVG were still coach however given all the injuries.

I'm not going to talk about defense because we all know that JVG's coaching is superior than Adelman, but there's a remarkable difference when it comes to their offensive strategies.

Last season Adelman showed that he's the offensive guru that the team needed. Considering that Yao was injured throughout most of the season and that we had no talent, our players played well and the offense clicked. For the most part, fans were happy with Adelman's regime. However, today, our offense has been just as bad as if not worse than when we had JVG as our head coach.

One thing that's noticeably different between the two head coaches is that JVG believes in the utilization of stars. JVG believes in role players: players characterized with a specific role. Therefore when it comes to putting the ball into the basket, he'd expect the most out of our best scorers - Yao, McGrady, and Artest - while giving the rest of the players roles, which is based on each and every players' strength. This is not the case with Adelman. Adelman has a philosophy that all 5 players must contribute to scoring. His motion offense requires his players to be active with and without the ball. The reason why his Blazers and Kings were successful is because most of his players on those teams were considered good offensive players with high basketball IQ and experience. Most importantly, when one player had a bad game, the other 4 picked it up.

Whatever lacks with his current team, we know for a fact that the players haven't been playing well and that they've been inconsistent. Players aren't moving, the shots aren't falling, and the ball movement - dead.

Coach needs his players to run his stuff. Our team is not meant to run the Princeton offense. So our offense got worse. Since half of the rotation players (Scola, Landry, Brooks, Artest, Barry) on this team didn't play for JVG/Thibo, so they don't know the defense. So both our offense and defense are worse.

i believe that this season and in this offense centered around yao, tmac has been a ballstopper in most situations.

the ball moves when tmac (or luther head LOL) isn't holding it trying to make a play

which has been a lot more effective than the prior per tmac's poor play.

give the ball to yao, use him as a pick off the front, and shoot threes.

simple.

The major difference between the two is that talent wants to play for Rick Adelman. Not all of it has worked out, but we've gotten ron-ron, bonzi, barry , and probably steve mostly because either rick was here, or jvg wasn't. Besides, who wants to miss more van gundy commentating? The man has a gift.

Dude, if JVG never left, how do you think you would get to know the names of Landry, Araon and Scola? What is that guy's name from Greek again...?

You'd have to start w/last yr.
For one,the team would have never signed Francis. Who knows if Bonzi would have come back,or been traded in last yrs off -season? Team prob wouldn't have traded for Jackson,thus making the Artest trade unlikely this yr.
Scola would have been used much more as a low-post option as the anchor to the second unit. James would prob still be chucking up horrid 3s and Brooks would have seen little run. Landry would have seen some time because of his energy,but not as much as under Adelman because JVG would have preferred Hayes D. Against Utah,Scola would have been the established second option,but the end result prob would have been the same.
This off season the Rockets would have been seeking a more athletic wing and a taller back-up C. W/out Francis salary on the books the team prob would have taken Carney and Booth and the 09 First from Phil instead of Minn. Landry prob wouldn't have been resigned.
So for JVG to stay,the team would look very different.

tisbee wrote:You'd have to start w/last yr.
For one,the team would have never signed Francis. Who knows if Bonzi would have come back,or been traded in last yrs off -season? Team prob wouldn't have traded for Jackson,thus making the Artest trade unlikely this yr.
Scola would have been used much more as a low-post option as the anchor to the second unit. James would prob still be chucking up horrid 3s and Brooks would have seen little run. Landry would have seen some time because of his energy,but not as much as under Adelman because JVG would have preferred Hayes D. Against Utah,Scola would have been the established second option,but the end result prob would have been the same.
This off season the Rockets would have been seeking a more athletic wing and a taller back-up C. W/out Francis salary on the books the team prob would have taken Carney and Booth and the 09 First from Phil instead of Minn. Landry prob wouldn't have been resigned.
So for JVG to stay,the team would look very different.

I agree with everything, BUT the last part.
Landry would have resigned, because he wouldnt have been noticed and no one else would have picked him up.

hackle wrote:Dude, if JVG never left, how do you think you would get to know the names of Landry, Araon and Scola? What is that guy's name from Greek again...?

Morey is the reason we got Scola and Landry

you need to give credit to JVG for ruining VSpan NBA carrer
if not
we will not force to trade him away
75% credit goes to Morey
15% credit goes to JVG
10% credit goes to Lindsey, former Rockets VP but work at Spurs assistant GM at that time

drafting Brooks is Adelman's idea
Brooks isn't that great

JVG might be against trading for Artest
but he got no power control it

I think that Baller 24 created the thread to mean....how would we fare with JVG at the helm with this current lineup. (not all the threadcrapping of how we wouldn't be the same team)....

I think we would make it to the playoffs as a 3-4 seed and lose in the first round unless we were playing Denver. All the other teams in the west have good coaches that can change things on the fly. JVG couldn't for some reason. We'd get to game 6's or 7's and get blown out b/c teams knew what we were going to do and we couldnt change up our offense to fight back. I don't care how good you are defensively, you're not gonna win if you can't score.

PocketRockets wrote:I think we would make it to the playoffs as a 3-4 seed and lose in the first round unless we were playing Denver. All the other teams in the west have good coaches that can change things on the fly. JVG couldn't for some reason. We'd get to game 6's or 7's and get blown out b/c teams knew what we were going to do and we couldnt change up our offense to fight back. I don't care how good you are defensively, you're not gonna win if you can't score.

Without giving examples of Jeff's rigidity and examples of adjustments by great coaches(PJax, Pop, etc) this statement is pointless. I keep hearing how Jeff couldn't make adjustments against Dallas in 05, but I've never heard anyone come up with any ideas as to what adjustments he should have made.

The truth is Jackson and Popovich have had superior talent for most of their careers and have done well because of it. They spent entire seasons, postseasons, and series going to Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Ginobili and whoever else and didn't hesitate to do it in game 7 the same as they had in countless other games. It's just a lot easier to look smart when you're throwing the ball to Jordan or Duncan instead of T-Mac or Yao.

jvg wouldn't adjust in the utah series

i really liked him as a regular season coach, because hard defense and hustle is going to win a lot of games

but in the playoffs, the other team is playing hard defense and hustling just as much as you are (unless you're playing the 8th seed in the east) so you absolutely need some flexibility in the offense

rockybalboa11 wrote:jvg wouldn't adjust in the utah series

i really liked him as a regular season coach, because hard defense and hustle is going to win a lot of games

but in the playoffs, the other team is playing hard defense and hustling just as much as you are (unless you're playing the 8th seed in the east) so you absolutely need some flexibility in the offense

Again, a useless statement without examples. What adjustments should have been made????

Okay,for PocketRocket,let's assume Adelman quit before the season started and JVG was rehired.
We would in all probability see a rerun of the 06-07 season. JVG wanted Yao to be the primary option so we'd see the Rockets pound it in to Yao and spread the floor for 3pt shots. We'd see alot of standing around while T-Mac,Artest and Brooks set up on the wing and do the iso thing. Scola would get more touches on the low post and would be the primary option when Yao sits. Von Wafer would not have made the team,while Strawberry would have. Better D,worse O.
@54 wins,and if everybody healthy a First Rd win against Suns/Mavs/Jazz,maybe Spurs,First Rd loss to everybody else.

The big diff is Adelman's spreading the wealth on offense. W/JVG,shut down McGrady and the Rockets are helpless. W/Adelman,other players can step up because they've done so during the reg season.

tha_rock220 wrote:Again, a useless statement without examples. What adjustments should have been made????

More relevant is that it was obvious that some adjustments should have been made (or at least tried), but were not (eg Yao on Boozer, even after repeated booze-outbursts). The issue in question is his flexibility. ie whether he recognises the need (and is willing) to change tact, not his skills once he's actually made up his mind to change.

In genereal, JVG is old school. Loves defense, won't double, won't zone, doesn't play rookies if other options are available. I suspect Hayes would be seeing a lot more time and Landry/Scola a lot less under JVG. It is interesting tho' to think about what he'd do with 2 defensive studs like Artest/Battier with Yao behind them and looking more confident this (and last) season in terms of holding his position and anchoring the defense. The Rockets would be downright scary defensively.

grond wrote:

tha_rock220 wrote:Again, a useless statement without examples. What adjustments should have been made????

More relevant is that it was obvious that some adjustments should have been made (or at least tried), but were not (eg Yao on Boozer, even after repeated booze-outbursts). The issue in question is his flexibility. ie whether he recognises the need (and is willing) to change tact, not his skills once he's actually made up his mind to change.

In genereal, JVG is old school. Loves defense, won't double, won't zone, doesn't play rookies if other options are available. I suspect Hayes would be seeing a lot more time and Landry/Scola a lot less under JVG. It is interesting tho' to think about what he'd do with 2 defensive studs like Artest/Battier with Yao behind them and looking more confident this (and last) season in terms of holding his position and anchoring the defense. The Rockets would be downright scary defensively.

Who started Hayes in the beginning of the 2007-08 season? Adelman
Howard is gone, so Scola is the only option we had left at backup PF. So Adelman had to play Scola
Landry didn't crack the rotation until mid January. I guess he doesn't like to play rookie as well.
Brooks didn't crack the rotation until halfway through December, when James and Francis were sucking for more than one and a half month. Then Adelman decided he can't trust a rookie and traded for BJax to play backup PG.

BTW JVG did play zone defense, but his definition of zone defense is guarding the paint and force people to shoot 3.

MaxRider wrote:

grond wrote:

tha_rock220 wrote:Again, a useless statement without examples. What adjustments should have been made????

More relevant is that it was obvious that some adjustments should have been made (or at least tried), but were not (eg Yao on Boozer, even after repeated booze-outbursts). The issue in question is his flexibility. ie whether he recognises the need (and is willing) to change tact, not his skills once he's actually made up his mind to change.

In genereal, JVG is old school. Loves defense, won't double, won't zone, doesn't play rookies if other options are available. I suspect Hayes would be seeing a lot more time and Landry/Scola a lot less under JVG. It is interesting tho' to think about what he'd do with 2 defensive studs like Artest/Battier with Yao behind them and looking more confident this (and last) season in terms of holding his position and anchoring the defense. The Rockets would be downright scary defensively.

Who started Hayes in the beginning of the 2007-08 season? Adelman
Howard is gone, so Scola is the only option we had left at backup PF. So Adelman had to play Scola
Landry didn't crack the rotation until mid January. I guess he doesn't like to play rookie as well.
Brooks didn't crack the rotation until halfway through December, when James and Francis were sucking for more than one and a half month. Then Adelman decided he can't trust a rookie and traded for BJax to play backup PG.

BTW JVG did play zone defense, but his definition of zone defense is guarding the paint and force people to shoot 3.

Is there another form of zone?

zone defense is guarding an area on the court instead of the player
JVG zone is guarding the paint

Boston zone defense in the final against Lakers is guarding whichever zone Kobe is in

HTown_TMac wrote:Is there another form of zone?

There's no limit to these X's and O's. The Celtics used a 1-man zone against the Lakers in the finals last year. The Celtics rotated Allen/Posey/Pierce for a man-to-man coverage against Kobe. The remaining Celtics formed a zone that shifted based on Kobe's location on the court.