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Frak it - i'm going to go ahead and say it: the "unknown" is Chris Bosh.

Ever since the big Martin Trade we've been taking in all of Daryl's talk about how assets are more valuable than cap space and wondering what it would take to force a sign & trade with the Raptors for Chris Bosh.

Well...is it worth it?

I have to assume that any Bosh S&T is going to be for the Max, so right off the bat we have a lot of money tied up in a few starting positions. Do you really think that Chris Bosh - unquestionably talented, but not without his red flags - is worth going Max Out when a less-flashy Luis Scola could do almost as good a job at a much reduced rate?

I saw a telling comment in a recent game thread that the big winner of the Martin Trade was Luis Scola. He has really made the most of his extended minutes and his bigger role in the 4th quarter.

Let's face it - Luis is 30, but a very young 30. He has not put as much wear & tear on those legs as many of his contemporaries. He has the added factor that he is familiar with this offense, and unlike any other PF out there he knows what to expect when Yao comes back.

Keep in mind that this is not just a "Luis for Bosh" talk here. Any Bosh trade will likely involve the Rockets giving up assets such as Hill, Budinger, Brooks or any of the Rockets' picks. I guess I am wondering if Chris Bosh (or to a lesser extent Amare, Lee or others) is worth giving up a lot of assets to acquire their services.

We should preface this entire discussion by saying that none of us knows what is up in the mind of the Morey. Hell, I doubt that even his Id or Ego know what his Superego is thinking. Still, we have a bit of an idea. He values assets. He is not a fan of depending on cap space. He is more than willing to sell high, even if it means sending out a wildly popular player.

So taking everything into account, what do you think that the Rockets will try to do? Big Trade? Re-sign & stand pat? Free Agency?

I think there's a big trade looming, with Battier, Budinger, and some contracts/picks on the way out. Morey's hinted at a summer move, I'm biting the bait.

I expect Morey to do some kind of trade, but it won't be for a max contract player unless LeBron James gets knocked out of the playoffs in the second round and decides that he wants to play with Yao. No other FA is worth the max, certainly not Bosh. I think it is very unlikely that Morey will go out there and shell out more than 11 mil for a FA in a sign-and-trade.

What that crafty Fat Elvis will probably end up doing is waiting until all the significant FAs are gone and the "summer of LeBron lottery cap space" for this season has become "better luck in 2011 cap space" for next season, then convert Jeffries' contract (now expiring...i.e. 2011 cap space) plus asset(s) into another Kevin Martin calibur player with a reasonable contract like Martin's.

The thing is, I like all our assets right now. I'm not sure if Bosh would be an upgrade over Scola if Yao is healthy. I see the trade more as insurance against Yao being a _much_ lesser player after 2011.

Do I like Chris Bosh as a focal point of our offense? In a division against matchups such as:

David West?
Tim Duncan?
Dirk?
Zach Randolph?

All the above forwards outweigh him by about 20 lbs or so.

Bosh's numbers look great because he's playing in a crappy division with little post presence aside from the Celtics. His defense is good, very good handles for a power forward and sits well at 6-10. As a talent, Bosh tops out over Scola easily, but as a player fit with more capable power forwards in the west, I'm not sure if Bosh will stand as head and shoulders above others on this team, especially since his defense of the pick and roll is average at best.

There was a post the other day from some dude that compared Mchale to Bosh in that they were both offensive black holes. Bosh has to be the number one guy and I'm not sure how well the ball is going to rotate around the half court when we are playing Princeton.

Scola is a really good passing power forward, with a decent shot outside of 15 feet, good post moves, excellent defence, not laterally quick or nor jumping very high, but since Landry has left his march numbers are frigging ridiculous (23.6 and 13.6 ??) We can sign him for 10 million, or we can tie up with Bosh under a max contract giving up great bargains on our roster for a piece that is likely not to get along well with Yao. I'm not so sure about this.

Comments?

My buddy and I were just discussing this at the poker table last Sunday. We came to the agreement that we have mixed feelings about the potential trade for Chris Bosh. No doubt about it Scola has stepped his game up big time since the depature of Landry but this is CHRIS BOSH were talking about here. I love Scola's game and what he brings on a nightly basis but if you have the chance to aquire a player of Bosh's caliber then you DO IT!

Our organization has always been gutsy and owner goes after big names even if it doesn't work out in the long run you still go for it. Drexler, Barkley, Pimpen, Francis, McGrady, and I suppose Artest to an extent.

Scola is already 30 while Bosh who is amongst the best PFs in the league is just 25! TWENY FIVE!!!

Scola will surely be missed but when you have a front court of Yao AND Bosh... who do you double?!?!? Can you double?!?!?!? Even with K-Money on the perimeter? Seriously?!?!?

Its going to take some work to match the salary.

But something centered around Brooks, Jefferies, & Scola which is similar to the value we gave out for McGrady then you DO IT WITHOUT THINKING TWICE!!!

PG: Lowry
SG: Martin
C: Yao
SF: Battier
PF: Bosh

That's ~42m tied into 3 players, though. Scola gives us probably 6-9m of extra wiggle room, without much dropoff over the next 2-3 years.

We'd have about 14m under the cap to spend on 9-12 additional players, perhaps 23m under the tax, and possible be completely hosed after the new CBA.

Ariza eats 6 of that. Lowry's going to eat 2-4.5m more. Then there's existing commitments, ..it's just messy, and Bosh is not THAT much better than Scola. We'd be better served upgrading at SF, or with Brooks at PG (as far as starting positions go).

KiDdFrESh wrote:...but if you have the chance to aquire a player of Bosh's caliber then you DO IT!

You only do it if the price is right. Near max is not right for Bosh, especially not if we can resign Scola for 40% of that. Now if we can sign-and-trade for Bosh at 12 mil then maybe.

But near max?

Er.

No.

Heck no.

Not even if the current CBA were to be extended five years...which it surely won't. I'll do max for LeBron and maybe 75% of max for Wade, but Bosh isn't worth nearly that much.

Luis is a restricted free agent, meaning we can match any offer by any team. You don't think with his recent outburst that he's going to get a hefty contract? There are tons of teams that have cleared up cap space and he's bound to get offered something ridiculous (8-10 mill range), and at the age of 30, how many of you really think Morey is willing to offer a 3-4 year deal worth 8-10 (maybe more) per season?

If the opportunity to obtain Bosh comes around this organization will go for it, he's the perfect fit next to a player like Yao, and solid for this offensive system. Bosh has a fantastic face-up jumper, he's athletic, he's a good weak-side defender/shot blocker, he's got a decent post game, but most importantly his ball handling/passing skills can really be utilized in this offensive system. And at the age of 25, you can clearly make a case that he is NOW getting into his prime.

He's solid, IMO it's a no brainier if Bosh comes along. This way Yao gets used less too, because we'd have a solid go-to offensive player, and god for bid something happens to Yao, this currently team + Bosh is still good enough to make the playoffs.

Luis has played fantastic recently, IMO this could turn out to be a good or bad thing, financially a bad thing for us (maybe), but for us to see our player do this, it's awesome.

It's no brainer that we go for Bosh. Scola isn't on his level. While I love Scola, Bosh is a 25/11, 25 year old big man with a very unique game.

He's in Toronto, so his role on defense is to cover up Barg/Calderon/Turk's **** asses on defense, I'd like to see him with a cohesive unit of Battier or Ariza at the 3, Chuck backing him up or playing alongside for minutes, Lowry being Lowry, and then Yao down low.

I think Bosh-Yao-Martin is a great core right there, but I have a hunch we'll pursue Bosh but really end out getting Wade, Paul, or Joe Johnson.

OP: You have a legit point. Why pay Bosh 23mill when you can get nearly the same production from Scola for (re-signed) 8-10 mill?

I know it's gnawing at your soul, so maybe I can help you find some peace. Here's how:

1. DorkElvis has a huge staff of statisticians at his disposal. (Not that he really needs them.)
2. They've been telling him the same thing as you for 4+ years.
3. You don't need a Field's Medal to do this math. No Unabomber required.

So relax.

It's under control.

If the Rox end up with Bosh, they won't give away the farm to get him. (And at this point, they're the only team in the league with 13 VERY trade-able assets. So even if they DO give away a few guys, they'll still be 2 deep at every position. No harm done.)

Scola is an ironman, Bosh while not injrury prone has sat out his share of games in his career. Take that into consideration

and Scola has better hair

Battier, Brooks, Scola, Hill for Bosh.

Ribalding wrote:OP: You have a legit point. Why pay Bosh 23mill when you can get nearly the same production from Scola for (re-signed) 8-10 mill?

I know it's gnawing at your soul, so maybe I can help you find some peace. Here's how:

1. DorkElvis has a huge staff of statisticians at his disposal. (Not that he really needs them.)
2. They've been telling him the same thing as you for 4+ years.
3. You don't need a Field's Medal to do this math. No Unabomber required.

So relax.

It's under control.

If the Rox end up with Bosh, they won't give away the farm to get him. (And at this point, they're the only team in the league with 13 VERY trade-able assets. So even if they DO give away a few guys, they'll still be 2 deep at every position. No harm done.)

/thread.

We definitely need another legit star on this team, since I don't think Martin can carry the team given the big question mark over Yao, but I've been wondering whether PF is the right position to upgrade. Scola, while not a superstar like Bosh, has non weaknesses except shot-blocking. He can do everything, play alongisde anyeone, and is perfect for the Princeton offense. Plus, he's shown recently that he can make big plays in crunch time. Unless somenoe grosses overpays him this summer, I would love to keep him. I think Joe Johnson would be a better choice. He and Brooks would make a much more balanced backcourt than Brooks and Martin, and (I think) he has some playmaking abilities to help compensate for Brooks' relatively lack of it. Of course Wade would be awesome, but it's highly unlikely.

In addition, it would be quite hard to use Scola in a S&T. Scola's an RFA, and I doubt Toronto (or whoever) would want to take back Scola on a 10 million+ contract. If Toronto wants Scola, Morey'd have to try his best not to pay too much to sign Scola, there's little chance the Scola accepts the initial offer right away. I'm expecting it to drag out a bit, even if not for as long as Landry's situation did a couple of years ago. And with so many teams with huge amounts of cap space, I doubt any of these guys will remain up for grabs as late as August or even September.

I personally think that the Rockets when healthy are able to compete for a championship. They just beat an elite team playing with a 6'6 center. Just imagine how they would be with a healthy Yao. I personally think they should only add a solid pf/center who is capable of splitting minutes with Yao. A superstar like Bosh isn't necessary imo. They have enough talented players and scorers as it is.

joeyyowee wrote:I personally think that the Rockets when healthy are able to compete for a championship. They just beat an elite team playing with a 6'6 center. Just imagine how they would be with a healthy Yao. I personally think they should only add a solid pf/center who is capable of splitting minutes with Yao. A superstar like Bosh isn't necessary imo. They have enough talented players and scorers as it is.

No, all of our players are stoppable in 4th quarter moments. Brooks hit a clutch shot recently, but he isn't clutch. Martin is scared of such situations, Yao is a good option, but adding a legit 1st option and relegating Yao and Martin to 2nd & 3rd options is the only way we compete for a ring.

Provided we keep most of our depth and defensive philosophy with at least Battier or Ariza remaining.

DraftBoy10 wrote:

joeyyowee wrote:I personally think that the Rockets when healthy are able to compete for a championship. They just beat an elite team playing with a 6'6 center. Just imagine how they would be with a healthy Yao. I personally think they should only add a solid pf/center who is capable of splitting minutes with Yao. A superstar like Bosh isn't necessary imo. They have enough talented players and scorers as it is.

No, all of our players are stoppable in 4th quarter moments. Brooks hit a clutch shot recently, but he isn't clutch. Martin is scared of such situations, Yao is a good option, but adding a legit 1st option and relegating Yao and Martin to 2nd & 3rd options is the only way we compete for a ring.

Provided we keep most of our depth and defensive philosophy with at least Battier or Ariza remaining.

I think Martin and Brooks could be go to guys for the Rockets down the stretch if they are used properly. I think Brooks could be used similar to how Bibby was used on the Sacramento teams. Martin has also hit his share of clutch shots when he plays off the ball down the stretch.

The thing is, like I've been saying Scola won't come cheap with his recent outburst. There are so many teams that have cleared up cap space just for this 2010 moment, if they don't land someone they want, there will be a team out there that will overpay Scola. And it could be something around the 10 million range where I honestly don't think Morey would be willing to match.

If Morey last summer didn't give Ron Artest (who believe it or not was vital in our success in the playoffs and to get there) a 6-8 million deal at the age of 30, what makes you think that Scola who recently turned 30 is getting something big?

The way I see it, the first option will be to go after Bosh, it's pretty simple. You give the max to a player that's a capable star in this league and a player you could build around for the future, especially considering he's just now getting into his peak years at the age of 25.

If the Bosh option fails, I could see us going after Amar'e, but I don't see the same Bosh-like max offer being offered to Amar'e by us. And THEN I think the Scola will be our option, but just remember we thought just a month ago that he's going to be a cheap 6.5-8 million for a 3 or 4 year deal, but with the recent beast mode, he's gonna come expensive. Like I said, there is going to be a team out there willing to overpay him, it's up to us if we want to match.

That's why I kind of think the Lowry injury might have been a blessing in disguise financially of course, because it could have hurt him a little more than helped his case for a team overpaying him. We'll be fine with Lowry IMO, the first option should be Bosh, but this off season should be ridiculously interesting.

Morey didn't give Artest the 6-8 million a year that was needed to sign him for a variety of reasons.

1) He thought he was the best offensive player on the team, even when his shooting percentage was at Rafer Alston levels.
2) He's a forward with a 3 game in a 4's body. Lateral quickness is fading, no back to the basket moves per se.
3) Whilst he was vital for playoff success, including driving Brandon Roy to the teetering edges of insanity, the guy is a walking PR time bomb.
4) Going on Les Alexander's bus in only his underwear on game 7 of the playoffs when he missed both the player bus and the coaching staff bus is highly amusing to talk about, but probably made less than stellar impressions on the ownership. (There was a Bill Simmons article on this. I laughed)
5) He plays the same position as Battier, where as you can argue that Ariza could be moved to the shooting guard position, you cannot do that with either Battier nor Artest. There is no way Artest would be given up for Battier on a Morey team.

Scola may or may not be getting something big, but for the targetted Artest price he's a bargain and then some.

Please no Amare. Shaky knees, inflated stats, no defense. Amare was a prospect until Steve Nash came to Phoenix, where he transformed from showing potenial to promise. The games Nash is out in the last few years have shown that Amare simply does not do as well. I like smart, hardworking, fundamentally sound players that are relatively injury free and don't complain. Amare isn't one of those ball players.

I would prefer Rockets to resign Scola and sign Camby as backup Center/PF. Hill will continue to develop and improve making him a good 3rd string PF with Hayes being the 3rd string C.

The problem with getting Bosh, mean Rockets will have to package some other valuable rotation players like Brooks, Battier, Hill etc into the deal, meaning the bench will be thinned. Resigning Scola will keep the bench depth that the Rockets have now. The bench depth is a serious weapon for the Rockets. Bringing Bosh will only make sense if Rockets does not deplete the bench depth.

NO to Amare! If Scola was not resigned, it would only because Rockets get Bosh. If Bosh is not available, then Scola is the next best candidate in the coming FA market.