New York Jets at Detroit Sun, 11/07 at 1:00 PM EST

[Manocad]

So many critical bad plays. Coming out of the end zone on the pick when there was no shot at getting any yards after. Running out of bounds to avoid tackles instead of just falling down in bounds and letting the clock run. Stanton throwing an incomplete pass on 3rd down instead of taking a sack and letting the clock run when the lost yardage made no difference whatsoever being that they were inside the 50. Peterson's personal foul. Too many penalties again.

Everything above is due to a lack of discipline.

[celtxman]

As an outsider watching the game and hoping the Lions would win, I don't think I've ever seen a game so poorly coached in the last 5 minutes. With time and the Jets lack of timeouts, there was just horrible clock management. You have to have presence of mind NOT to call a timeout when Stafford got hurt. Time is in your favor - let Stanton hand the ball off and punt the ball. Stafford did his part by immediately leaving the field - your coach blew it. At least 45 seconds are handed to the Jets with that decision. Again with a better grasp on the time, you CANNOT have an incomplete pass on that 3rd down play out of the 2 minute warning. So if you are worried about a backup quarterback getting in trouble, instruct him to slide to keep the playclock going if there is even a hint that he can't make a completion. In fact you should take the guesswork out by running - again another 45 seconds, where they could have taken the playclock to the last second and called timeout to milk every second.
The Lions could have survived the mis-tackles, and probably never get to that late hit situation. This one is on the coach.

[effjay]

Horrible horrible letdown for all Detroit sports fans today.

[TSE]

The coach had SUR kick the extra point bad choice there must have been someone else on team that could kick.

Or they could have gone for 2. To have 1 pt to gamble for 2 or nothing is not a loss. Yes you give up the odds of not converting being slightly more likely, but you also have those odds hit that Suh can kick a simple extra pt. Seems to me the better price was to go for 2. Although maybe that's the first time Suh missed in the last 100 for all i know.

[Bartender]

The coaches don't care about penalties thats way the lions keep on getting them.even on the game winning field goal there was a penalty on the lions

Have they told you this? Are you sitting in on the practices? Keep your blind criticism to yourself.

[Piston Pete]

We played good enough to win, and should have. The game was lost basically on 3 plays.

1) The missed PAT by Suh. (with Hanson, we end the game with 21 points, not 20)

2) Our final 3rd down with the incomplete to Felton. If we run it, we likely win. Even if we run it and get stuffed, the Jets get the ball back with around a minute left, not 1:40.

3) The Peterson late hit penalty. Without that penalty, the 36-yard FG to tie it becomes a 51-yarder.

[Liqourish]

What a heartbreaking loss. It's not like we got outplayed and deserved to lose. The Lions were the better team for 55 minutes and let it all come crashing down. Alot of missed cues did us in.

What the hell was Julian Peterson thinking? What was Stanton thinking? Was it really a design play to throw on 3rd and 6 with under 2 minutes left and the jets had no timeouts? If so, what the hell were the coaches thinking? run and run the clock down, then punt and run the clock down. Jets still would have gotten the ball, but they would have had at least 50 seconds less on the clock and would have had to travel down the field without any stoppages.

I don't mind the Suh XP attempt. He is our backup kicker and Hanson was taken out by the Jets. Suh is a soccer player and can make that. And he almost did. It looked good until the final second. But that was in the third quarter and we still came back and scored to go up 10 pts in the 4th. That 1 pt didn't lose us the game. Poor decisions down the stretch did. Although, I guess the team could have gone for 2 in that situation.

Nathan Vasher SUCKS. He wasn't even covering Holmes on that catch in OT to get the Jets in FG range. Please, just cut him. He just hurts us. I don't think he's had a good play yet in a Lions uni.

What this game did show me was that the Lions aren't too far away. We can hang with anyone in the league. But we have to learn how to win and that starts with the coaching staffs. We also really need Linebackers. Levy played a good game, but Peterson did not, even before his late hit. Our Dline was doing okay and our DBs stepped up and made plays, but our LBs were invisible out there. I forget the exact percentage, but the majority of run stops against the Jets were from our DBs stepping in and getting the stop.

We need to bounce back and beat the Bills next week. Get this game out of ours minds and win on the road. Can't let the team dwell on this loss. Learn from it and move on. Still have 8 games left. Including home games against all 3 division rivals and road games against the Bills and Cowboys. Wins are still available... but they have to focus.

[TSE]

Actually beating the Bills would be bad for us. They are a top draft pick contender in the hunt with us, and losing to them could cost us a spot. We have to win 8 games in a row to make the playoffs, 9-7 will not get it done this year with the other records out there and tiebreakers we will already lose. And the more wins we pull off this year, the less likely the bad job performers on this team will be accountable and axed for their lousy performances. We need the owner of this team to clean out the garbage at the top, bring in some smart football strategists to help out, and get this thing fine tuned so that we don't screw up next season as well.

[OB- wan]

The Lions don't need to worry about getting a top pick. They would be better off winning and picking a little later than they have been. They can't pick another franchise QB this year and tie up another $50MM upfront.

[TSE]

Then we could trade the pick instead of using it next time! Lots of teams would be willing to take that pick if we want to sell it cheap, yet not necessarily would be have to sell it that cheap. It's still extremely valuable to possess as long as it's MANAGED correctly, which is why I'm calling for the team to hire a NEW manager that knows how to utilize our team resources with maximum logical efficiency to generate the highest of possible returns based on those decisions. It's more of a benefit to pick high in the draft than it is a penalty. If somebody just gives you a $100, but you choose to buy drugs and overdose on them, then that's deadly, but that doesn't mean the theoretical value of a $100 bill is equal to death. It's a good thing when in the hands of somebody responsible that knows what to do with it, whether how to spend it, or how to invest it or convert it into a different asset.

[Icness]

The odds of getting any owner to trade up into a more expensive draft pick with an impending lockout are less than Rush Limbaugh endorsing Barack Obama. Even if Dan Snyder or Al Davis wanted to the other owners would give them hell for ruining their position that their costs are too damn high and it wouldn't surprise me if Goodell blocked it. This will be the most conservative offseason ever for reasons far beyond anything on the field.

Still hoping the Lions land in position to get Patrick Peterson. Saw him in person against Julio Jones and even though Jones got 2 TDs I thought Peterson was the better player for the balance of the game. That guy is one good year of coaching and experience away from being a Pro Bowl corner and he's also the best return man in this draft to boot. He's probably in the 4-8 overall range so the Lions should be in good position.

Watched the abridged version of the game from NFL Network and two things stood out that I hadn't seen before:
--our guards are pretty darn good. That 2nd chop block call on Peterman was complete BS and he consistently dominated his man.
--Louis Delmas is not progressing the way I hoped. He's too much like Bernard Pollard of the Texans and the Lions need him to be better and more responsible than that. Love the leadership and intentisy, hate his decision-making process.

[Piston Pete]

Peterson would be HUGE for us in round 1

Add another S and OLB in rounds 2 and 3 (in any order) and our D could be DANGEROUS next season.

After round 3 (assuming we get a CB, S, and OLB in the first three rounds), draft best available. Look to get another WR, O-lineman, and more D.

[TSE]

The odds of getting any owner to trade up into a more expensive draft pick with an impending lockout are less than Rush Limbaugh endorsing Barack Obama. Even if Dan Snyder or Al Davis wanted to the other owners would give them hell for ruining their position that their costs are too damn high and it wouldn't surprise me if Goodell blocked it. This will be the most conservative offseason ever for reasons far beyond anything on the field.

Still hoping the Lions land in position to get Patrick Peterson. Saw him in person against Julio Jones and even though Jones got 2 TDs I thought Peterson was the better player for the balance of the game. That guy is one good year of coaching and experience away from being a Pro Bowl corner and he's also the best return man in this draft to boot. He's probably in the 4-8 overall range so the Lions should be in good position.

Watched the abridged version of the game from NFL Network and two things stood out that I hadn't seen before:
--our guards are pretty darn good. That 2nd chop block call on Peterman was complete BS and he consistently dominated his man.
--Louis Delmas is not progressing the way I hoped. He's too much like Bernard Pollard of the Texans and the Lions need him to be better and more responsible than that. Love the leadership and intentisy, hate his decision-making process.

I totally disagree about your perception of the tradability of a top pick. Plus we won't likely have the #1 pick anyhow. We'll most likely end up somewhere near where we are at around the 5 mark, depending on who QBs for us and how they do of course. Now it may be hard for Mayhew to figure out how to get that trade done and what is the right draft package or player to make that trade. He obviously didn't pull that all together during the Stafford choice, but he COULD have. But he DIDN'T. If I'm the GM, that's on me and I promise you I get the job done and find the right trade if I want to make a trade. It's easy to tell me I can't do it when I don't have the job, so not really fair to debate that I can't do what I say. Nobody ever tells me what I can't do when I tell them specifically what I'm going to do, I always come out on top on those differences of opinions because I don't put my neck on the line unless I've done my homework first and figured out the logic of the situation and know what I'm talking about. I'll take it to my grave and to the afterlife in a debate with God that I'm right on this issue.

I really like Delmas in the last game. He made a lot of plays and showed some aggression and a physical presence. Anything about "progressing" the way you might be referring to isn't fair to him. I'm convinced our secondary and defensive coaching isn't good for these guys, they don't know how to teach them the logic of how to play, I see it so obviously marked on our team that they aren't instructed properly, so that's not Delmas fault if he doesn't ever get the right coaching. He's a PLAYER and a good one with great ability and talent, and he COULD be more if we choose to make him more and do it correctly, but that's on us. Delmas is doing fine on his own and doing everything he needs to do to get better, I can't see anything that Delmas is doing that isn't his best or right on the money with getting HIS job done, it's the others around him that need to do THEIR jobs better.

The penalty of Raiola was terrible, just another instance that a ref should be fined for making a bad call. And another case to the point that the rules of the game should be changed to prevent inequitable events from taking place. But that's all on the Commissioner to do HIS job and start cleaning up the massive pileup of bad rules and operations associated with the sport. I want to know who the heck Roger Goodell hangs out with, don't people yell at him abusively and profusely every day about this garbage? How does he escape every random person jumping down his throat about all of the problems of the league? Does he just live in a cave and not associate with the public? The guy gets paid a lot of money to stand by the wayside as atrocious controversies emerge EVERY WEEK. Sheesh.

And I wouldn't mind Amakamura. I dont watch these players religiously but I've seen a handful of really nice plays by Prince that stood out and I've noticed a couple really bad plays by Peterson that stood out in recent times. I would love to analyze the entire careers of those 2 guys and figure out what's what, it looks like a really interesting comparison, and I couldn't possibly know which one is better without researching it deeply and intricately which I think makes it very fun and interesting to think about. If I had to pick now, I would probably lean towards Peterson because of the added return game value, but if I had to pick without researching it on who the better CB is, I think I'd go with the Prince for right now.

[OB- wan]

Not only that but you have to sell your fan base on ditching the pick and when the team you trade it to drafts a perennial pro-bowl LT you can lose your fanbase.

Also you get away from the make or break high priced QB, DT, CB, OT guys and can start getting the LB's that this team really needs.


Sure, it's obvious to say $100 bill is better than a $20 bill but the right person can sometimes get more for their $20 placed in a solid investment.

A side from these intangible reasons I've already stated, this team needs to win some games to start feeling better about themselves and start the climb to respectability. I would like one of the top corners in the draft but I don't know that they would save the team the way a shift in thinking/culture would bring with winning.

[Icness]

TSE--you may not want to believe this but I know it is true, I was within earshot of the GM when it happened: The Lions approached another team about trading the pick that became Stafford. That team countered that the Lions would have to give extra picks for them to take it, not get more picks. This team was picking in the 6-12 range in that draft and would have swapped to #1 but the Lions would have had to give up their own third and 5th to do it, the other team didn't want anything to do with the big contract. I have heard similar things happened with the Rams last year, though they really didn't have much interest in dealing the pick. NOBODY will deal up until a rookie wage scale and price controls are in place.

It is more likely that a pick in the 6-10 range can be moved but it's not going to bring back a lot of compensation. It would be something like a 10-15 overall and a 3rd rounder, but it's one of those situations where it has to be a certain team wanting a certain player. Teams do absolutely talk to one another about stuff like that--the Lions had such a contingency deal this year if the Rams had taken Suh, this certain team would have given their 1st and 4th and 7th to move up just a couple of spots to get Bradford (the Lions would have taken Eric Berry). The best example I can give of one of those deals actually happening is when JAX moved way up to get Derrick Harvey. They only wanted to move up to get him specifically and they knew the Bengals were going to take him with the next pick, so they called in their pre-arranged pseudo deal and made it happen. Of course that Harvey deal didn't exactly work out too well, he's going to be released this offseason...

That's what probably 95% of the phone conversations on draft day that you see going on are all about, checking on those types of "if/then" deals.

That is the fun part of going to the Senior Bowl and the Combine for me is seeing those initial conversations and watching teams feel one another out for certain players and spots. It's surprisingly out in the open and I would encourage y'all to try and attend Senior Bowl week if you ever can. The Combine actually sucks now that it's moved to Lucas Oil Field and the NFL runs everything, we get very little access to much of that stuff anymore other than over dinners and hotel bars and a lot of that stuff is trying to throw the Adam Schefters and Jay Glazers off the scent of what is really going down. But in Senior Bowl week you can plop right down next to Bill Parcells or Martin Mayhew or any coach and listen in on their conversations. Two years ago I watched another GM walk up to Bill Belichick and with few pleasantries and total bluntness asked him what it would take to get Tom Brady. I was sitting next to Michael Smith from ESPN and we were dumbfounded and had a great laugh.

[Piston Pete]

LOL - can you at least paraphrase what Belichick's response was?? Must have been golden....

[TSE]

Wherever we end up in the draft, I wouldn't mind if it was the precise spot to get the 2nd CB off the list if there is a possible gap. Would rather take the 2nd guy lower, but I wouidn't give up anything to do that, and would want something to do it if I thought the other guy was better.

[ajaX82]

If we end up with Amukamara or Peterson i will be ecstatic.