Game 2 - K.C. @ Lions 1:00 kickoff

[Bartender]

Calvin Johnson drops a TD, so on 4th and goal the next play Stafford goes right back to him. That is great coaching and some nice balls (both kinds) by Stafford.

Stafford has been throwing darts all game long. He may have one of the three strongest arms in the league. He has also made a few bonehead tosses but nobody is perfect

Yeah I'm so glad we have him.

Nah, we should trade him.

[TSE]

That's fine with me too. Lots of teams would overpay us for him.

[kellmellus50]

That's fine with me too. Lots of teams would overpay us for him.

Remember when we traded Roy williams to dallas we got a 1st--3rd -6th round picks

those picks we got pettigrew,best, and the 6th pick who i do not remember

that trade turned out well for the lions.

[TSE]

Not really, cause Roy's value was perceived much higher then than it is today, so you have to use that reference point to think about the context of the value of the trade, and I think we had better exit strategies and options to reconfigure. It wasn't a good deal to cash that in for a TE or a RB, I think we executed at like B+/A- overall on all facets of the trade and what we turned it into, and I was looking for an A+ solution.

[ajaX82]

Not really, cause Roy's value was perceived much higher then than it is today, so you have to use that reference point to think about the context of the value of the trade, and I think we had better exit strategies and options to reconfigure. It wasn't a good deal to cash that in for a TE or a RB, I think we executed at like B+/A- overall on all facets of the trade and what we turned it into, and I was looking for an A+ solution.

The Roy Williams deal was one of the most lopsided NFL trades of the last decade in our favor. Thinking otherwise is, well,

Remember when we traded Roy williams to dallas we got a 1st--3rd -6th round picks

those picks we got pettigrew,best, and the 6th pick who i do not remember

that trade turned out well for the lions.

Not quite, as Best didn't come about as part of that deal, but it was a good trade

[TSE]

The Roy Williams deal was one of the most lopsided NFL trades of the last decade in our favor. Thinking otherwise is, well,

I didn't comment on this trade here where you replied to me, so for one your comment isn't even on point as perhaps I agree with you and took off most of the points for the conversion, execution, and follow-through of the subsequent moves we made that led to the "how things turned out for us" element of what Kellmellus said, and I just don't agree that it turned out that great, which EVERY new player on our team is affected by that trade. If we had one extra WR, and if he pans out, then perhaps Titus is not here. But we didn't even have that possibility by letting Dallas gamble with Roy. So if we never did the trade, maybe we don't draft Titus, maybe we get somebody better. And so on and so on and so on for every new player, because ALL of them could have never came here if that one trade went down just SLIGHTLY differently.

To say what you just said here is what's , but only briefly, cause really it's just another one of your :shameful: childish replies to me. C'mon dude enough already, nobody cares to see this kind of crap. And obviously my argument is more logical and far better supported than yours. Cause we still aren't getting respected as the clear #1 best team in the league, and we have had ridiculous opportunities, options, and material to be there NOW. To not be is AWFUL. Good or great just doesn't hack it in the NFL, you have to be the best you can be and make the most of it and we are coming up way the heck short of our full potential.

[ElectricMayhem]

We could not have gotten more for Roy Williams. The day the trade was struck, everyone was shocked that a team would give up as much as the Cowboys did. The trade was outstanding value before knowing who any of the draft picks would be (Pettigrew, Derrick Williams, Aaron Brown). The fact that we were able to get someone of Pettigrew's ability out of someone everyone knew would be out of Detroit at the end of the year made the deal tremendous in retrospect as well.

Obviously, the only way we could have possibly gotten a better deal is if,

A) We had kidnapped some GM's son or daughter and done some Jack Bauer bargaining tactics, or

B)If TSE were our GM, because that guy could get any Detroit franchise 10 straight championships.

[ajaX82]

We could not have gotten more for Roy Williams. The day the trade was struck, everyone was shocked that a team would give up as much as the Cowboys did. The trade was outstanding value before knowing who any of the draft picks would be (Pettigrew, Derrick Williams, Aaron Brown). The fact that we were able to get someone of Pettigrew's ability out of someone everyone knew would be out of Detroit at the end of the year made the deal tremendous in retrospect as well.

Obviously, the only way we could have possibly gotten a better deal is if,

A) We had kidnapped some GM's son or daughter and done some Jack Bauer bargaining tactics, or

B)If TSE were our GM, because that guy could get any Detroit franchise 10 straight championships.

Exactly

The Roy Williams deal was one of the most lopsided NFL trades of the last decade in our favor. Thinking otherwise is, well,

I didn't comment on this trade here where you replied to me, so for one your comment isn't even on point as perhaps I agree with you and took off most of the points for the conversion, execution, and follow-through of the subsequent moves we made that led to the "how things turned out for us" element of what Kellmellus said, and I just don't agree that it turned out that great, which EVERY new player on our team is affected by that trade. If we had one extra WR, and if he pans out, then perhaps Titus is not here. But we didn't even have that possibility by letting Dallas gamble with Roy. So if we never did the trade, maybe we don't draft Titus, maybe we get somebody better. And so on and so on and so on for every new player, because ALL of them could have never came here if that one trade went down just SLIGHTLY differently.

To say what you just said here is what's , but only briefly, cause really it's just another one of your :shameful: childish replies to me. C'mon dude enough already, nobody cares to see this kind of crap. And obviously my argument is more logical and far better supported than yours. Cause we still aren't getting respected as the clear #1 best team in the league, and we have had ridiculous opportunities, options, and material to be there NOW. To not be is AWFUL. Good or great just doesn't hack it in the NFL, you have to be the best you can be and make the most of it and we are coming up way the heck short of our full potential.

Well I thought you did comment about the trade...but maybe i was wrong. And we don't need to call names or anything

[motorcity15]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHoSug3tC1I&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

[Piston Pete]

Iceness,

Any more info on the possible players revolt in KC following this loss?

[Icness]

Iceness,

Any more info on the possible players revolt in KC following this loss?

The mutiny is not on. Yet. I think they are more sullen about losing their two best players (Berry and Charles) and knowing that their QB is just not very good. But if they're getting pounded again and Haley keeps treating people like he does, it will be ugly quickly. Part of the problem is that they don't have much in the way of locker room leaders now that Vrabel and Watters are gone.

[Icness]

Just rewatched the game and had some thoughts:
--it should have been much more lopsided. The offensive lull in the first half was troubling and the Lions failed to really capitalize on all those asinine Chiefs penalties.
--I didn't see the long Burleson completion wiped out by penalty, but watching him dip his shoulder and rock Brandon Flowers on the sideline was awesome. Not many slot guys put down a pretty good corner in that situation.
--Stafford is a lot like Aaron Rodgers in that his throwing motion is so effortless for him that at times he doesn't make a great throw. But man he can laser the ball down the field.
--Speivey played a whale of a game, did exactly what the Lions ask of their strong safety.
--might have been Suh's weakest game as a pro, he was doubled almost every snap and they actually did a solid job on him. KVDB was fantastic though.
--speedy running backs that can cut are going to be a problem, esp. ones that can catch out of the backfield. Charles and McCluster both had lots of room on sharp cuts.
--Glad to see Stafford get hit a few times and suffer no ill effects. Loved his scrambling throw to Pettigrew on the play where the TE got hurt, Best made a great block too.
--The interior OL killed the 3-man front. That will be helpful against GB

[TSE]

We could not have gotten more for Roy Williams. The day the trade was struck, everyone was shocked that a team would give up as much as the Cowboys did. The trade was outstanding value before knowing who any of the draft picks would be (Pettigrew, Derrick Williams, Aaron Brown). The fact that we were able to get someone of Pettigrew's ability out of someone everyone knew would be out of Detroit at the end of the year made the deal tremendous in retrospect as well.

Obviously, the only way we could have possibly gotten a better deal is if,

A) We had kidnapped some GM's son or daughter and done some Jack Bauer bargaining tactics, or

B)If TSE were our GM, because that guy could get any Detroit franchise 10 straight championships.

I wasn't shocked by how much they gave up. If that trade didn't happen, you would not believe the offer would be possible that Dallas submitted. How do you know some other team didnt offer more draft pts but in a different package or even a better deal but Roy wouldn't play ball and be happy with the other team and forced us to take less with Dallas, cause the other team offering more isn't going to do that without having that security which Dallas definitely had. I think you are flat out wrong, but it's besides the point, because if we could have got 1% more draft pts in return, that's meaningless compared to the big scope of things. We have 53 roster positions that we could potentially improve upon, and a 1% improvement on Roy is negligible compared to the bigger more profitable cases that exist.

And I certainly could get 10 straight championships. It would be a longshot, but it is possible. I wouldn't expect to win 10 straight, but I would expect to win 8/10 with a shot at going 10 out of 10. You just don't understand how statistically improbable it is to overcome all of the things I would have going on with our franchise. It's easy to not believe when you are in an ignorant position and frame of reference. It would be like playing Scrabble with elementary school children. It's just not practical for them to win because the GMs are so vastly incompetent at understanding the strategy side of football at the highest level. These are really, really stupid people relative to the type of people who would be qualified to manage professional football franchises. Fortunately for us we finally got a guy who is in the top half of the list, but either way it's still not good enough or satisfactory to my standards. I am shocked that other people don't see this or understand this, but I do and that's all that matters to me and I can back it up to the rest of you in the afterlife if we somehow have the power to simulate "what could have been" and my eternal promise to all of you is a big fat "I told you so".

[ElectricMayhem]

Just curious...You believe there was an A+ solution that we fell far short of. What was this A+ solution to moving Roy Williams?

[TSE]

I don't know cause I can't go back in time and negotiate with the other teams. But my complaint was a conjunction complaint that had to do with the quantity of material received, PLUS what we turned it into. The what we could have turned it into has a far greater potential for new gains than there was to try and hammer out more incoming material. That's a negligible amount that is pretty ancillary to me, so it's pointless to try and figure out which team would have paid more if we were better negotiators.

The A+ solution was to pickup QUALIFIED and LOGICAL players that fit within a long-term Uber Dynasty plan. We did not do that.

And furthermore, the other 40+ players on our team that we have acquired since then were also poorly configured for that purpose. So overall, our team has MISSED THE BOAT BIGTIME, but it was primarily due to the 40+ players after the deal that we gaffed on moreso than the Roy deal or what we turned that deal into. That whole deal and every player directly involved in that trade is a small percentage of our global screwups.

[chrbal]

Pettigrew makes that trade worth it. And the lions got multiple picks for someone who lost his ****. Do you blame the Pistons trading Otis Thorpe because Darko was a bad fit?

[Lionlifer]

Pettigrew makes that trade worth it. And the lions got multiple picks for someone who lost his ****. Do you blame the Pistons trading Otis Thorpe because Darko was a bad fit?

Seriously, given how far williams has fallen off, I'm happy to have gotten anything for him. He didn't exactly set the league a blaze once he left Martz system. Even though we kinda whiffed on a few picks, it was still a robbery.

[TSE]

Pettigrew makes that trade worth it. And the lions got multiple picks for someone who lost his ****. Do you blame the Pistons trading Otis Thorpe because Darko was a bad fit?

Interesting question, but the Pistons are so overly consumed with blame that I have assigned to them that the question in itself is rather meaningless. If you were to blame a person for walking into quicksand, and then after a couple hours they were in so deep that there was a 10 foot layer of sand over them, then does it really matter or make sense to debate whether or not one additional pail of sand should be poured over the top? Who cares, that team is so swallowed up in pathetic shameful management that the question is moot. Who wants to analyze how much of an additional pail should be added or if some of the sand already in the pile is already counted, it's ancillary as an isolated independent query.

Although I'm sure to the shocking dismay of many Detroit fans, I do credit Pistons' mngmt with a higher grade than the Tigers. They haven't failed nearly as miserably, but only due to the fact that they still possess a better exit strategy to bring about a solution to their problems than the Tigers; even if they are unaware of it I still give them the benefit of the doubt that they do know what's going on and that contributes to the valuation of their performance. Also keep in mind that the Pistons are not allowed to triple their budget in effort to increase their incoming revenue/accomplishments. I grade on profitability and logic.