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TSE
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Re: Around the League 

Post#241 » by TSE » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:50 pm

Icness wrote:
So you would prefer Jamarcus Russell over Matt Stafford to QB the Lions over the next two years?

It's a moot point because it sounds like Russell will be more than happy to take his buyout and never play again. $3M more will buy a lot of whatever the hell he keeps eating.


No I would take Stafford. I only would want Jamarcus plus "x" in exchange for Stafford, in which case Jamarcus isn't worth jack squat compared to what that "x" is. All i want to do is move Stafford and get him and his contract out of here, and then same with Stanton if he can be salvaged too, and then I have one roster spot to plunk a cheap Jamarcus into just to hold onto because I'm going to properly invest in that gamble and sell that gamble with better planning than most teams, so he would be more valuable to me than to a stupid GM that doesn't have a plan that has outs involving JR to be taking up a roster spot.

In this particular scenario with the way things played out, if I was the GM, then JR would be a moot point, because it would be almost impossible for us to not have Claussen or Colt on our roster, if not both of them perhaps due to the exceptionally low price and the nice contracts that we could bank on if we want to trade one of them later on if we can establish both of them to be effective. I'm only talking about adding JR now, with the intentions that he's cheap enough to add, and if we can get Stafford out and open up the position to a fresh path that is more strategic and more likely to succeed in terms of helping the team achieve a SB win as well as a foundation for a logical elite dynasty structure. We still don't have that, Mayhew left us vulnerable again to tons more risk that was voluntary risk. Just shortchanging us from our best possible future.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#242 » by Icness » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:16 pm

But what does the $$ matter in an uncapped environment? After this next season Stafford will be relatively cheap--he will have collected over 50% of his deal and over 80% of his guaranteed $$. That's precisely why the Raiders can go ahead and cut Russell. If there was a cap they would be in trouble with the accelerator hit, but with no cap they just have to stroke the check and it doesn't impact the team. Unless of course the owner is afraid to spend money, which is one area the Fords have never really shied away from. The salary bullet for Stafford is already bitten for the most part.

A couple of NFC North notes:
--Chicago just made a HUGE upgrade to their secondary by getting Chris Harris back. Carolina was 8-5 when he started last year and had a turnover ratio seven better than the three games he missed. He's taking over for players that wouldn't likely make the Lions roster, let alone start. That move will help them more than Peppers. As an aside, WTH is Carolina doing :nonono:

--Chicago also just axed their college scouting director, just months after axing their DPP. That further reinforces the message that it's "win now or else" all over that team. Hard to predict how teams respond to that, but there's very little chance they will be mediocre. Beating them early is critical!
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Re: Around the League 

Post#243 » by TSE » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:36 pm

Well easy to say for the most part, but even if it wasn't significant and is just "for the most part", that still ain't good enough, I'm the best at what I do and I demand other people to be the best at what they do, and we don't have that here in Detroit, and it pisses me off.

It matters if we can score with Claussen or McCoy cause that will save us money to apply towards another position for the future. And the value of them combined is still way less than Stafford, and I like the odds of going with either a pair or single one of them, in both scenarios there is an overall better risk/reward ratio overall to all team components considered and combined than to do it this way with sticking with Stafford which creates a constraint and a handcuff in long-term dynamics, it all favors the end bottom line in any multi year projection of any significant relevance. I just always attest to the fact that I'm at the world's master of NFL GM strategy and that I have considered every possible twisted way of reshaping this team in both extreme and minute ways, and all of my considerations leave me into an end result that we are freaking stupid by keeping Stafford, even though it may seem convenient. It's just unethical in my opinion because I believe that of 32 of these rare jobs that exist, there should be a minimum benchmark of strategy excellence to qualify for deserving this role, and I don't like what I see because i know with every fiber of my being that what we are doing is not the right thing to do in the best interests of the Detroit franchise fanbase and any other constituents that feel they have a stake in this organization.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#244 » by Icness » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:11 pm

TSE--I'm trying to figure out what your orgnaizational strategy is regarding QBs. Because you've lost me somewhere along the way, but I think it's this: You want a perennial Pro Bowler, but you don't want to pay him. That is the way of the Cleveland Indians, my friend, which is why I no longer follow baseball.

Also, what is your philosophy on the young QB--do you build the line first and then go after your QB, or do you take the stud QB (say Steve Young) and then build the line around his skills? And do you believe that an average QB behind a good line can win (see Jake Delhomme and Eli Manning), or that a superstar QB can win behind an average line (see Big Ben or Kurt Warner)? Which route would you go?
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Re: Around the League 

Post#245 » by TSE » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:18 pm

dup post
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Re: Around the League 

Post#246 » by TSE » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:58 pm

Not at all, it's all about the efficiencies of using up team resources to improve the team. We used a #1 overall pick on Stafford. So say if I like Claussen almost as much as Stafford, or what if I like him more, then why use a #1 pick and a contract like that when you can use less draft value and money value and get a key prospect for a better value? So instead we should have used that pick towards SOMETHING ELSE, and then taken a QB prospect when the price was right. My strategy for QBs is the same for all positions, and that is to figure out how I can fill ALL my positions with the BEST players possible with the BEST positional prioritization possible, and for our particular situation this year or last year, the best play was to stay out of Stafford, use that pick on another position, and take good odds at getting an early beat on a cheap franchise QB. It's all about hedging to find the right proportion of hard dollar investments against gambles and fliers, and Stafford just happens to get disqualified out of the solution set due to a logical handcuff. He is too expensive that he would have to have such a high percentage of panning out to compensate for the value of taking a lesser prospect like Claussen that you can tolerate a smaller conversion percentage and still be better off.

Let me make up an example, every team wants a star QB. So say you have a choice between a guy named Stufford that needs 40M for a 40% chance of panning out. Or you can have a guy named Clussen that only needs 1M, but he has only a 30% chance of panning out. Keep in mind, we aren't just talking dollars here, the 30 and the 1 represent dollars and draft pick material required to be spent as well. Now you might say well QB is the most important position, so I'll pay for that extra 10%, cause I want to do everything I can to get a great QB. Well that's fine and dandy if you have equivalent cost choices, but the 40% over the 30% is never going to make up for the 40M or the 1M. And you can make up any numbers you want, as long as you are logical here and you make this comparison, you should be able to see why this is a misfit. Then when you do this analysis across ALL other positions, you will find that there are built-in choices that you have to take because they have too high of a yield. If we get that 30% QB now, sure we lose 10% that we won't have a stellar #1 most important position, but that 39M of money and draft material savings might get us 5% more on an OT, plus 5% more on OG, and 5% more on WRs 1 and 2, and another 20 or so points to the defensive starters. Whoa you say, where are all these points coming up from and what does it all mean?

Well obviously this is all theoretical, all I'm trying to do is show you the blueprint of logic that shows when you analyze the full solution set of what a franchise needs to do to become elite, you need to factor in ALL aspects from drafting to trading to FAs to waiver wires to etc etc. And if you pigeon hole yourself into saying ok, I'm going to make a great strategy for our franchise now, but first thing's first I like Stafford, so let's start there, then right away you are already moving too fast. You can't just say Stafford looks good so let's get him, you have to look at all possibilities of what would happen in the event that you don't take Stafford, play it out for the next 5-10 years and see how many wins you project for your team. Well I liked Stafford quite fine as a prospect last year, and taking him number 1 overall last year I see our team winning "x" games over the next 10 years, and by doing anything other than drafting Stafford, I see slanted percentage probabilities in favor of winning more than "x" games, and weak percentages to fall short of "x" games, and I see a much more secure likelihood of establishing a perpetual elite dynasty, which to me is the ONLY goal in the NFL that all teams should shoot for, because that is the highest goal possible. My breakdown of the NFL game shows me that a team with a first mover advantage that sets up a perpetual dynasty can go on theoretically forever or for all intents in purposes a really long period of time even if the system falls apart due to excessive bad luck in a decade or two. But if you could see it my way, you could see how this perpetual dynasty is the holy grail of the NFL, and any team could shoot for it. Nobody talks about it, because nobody knows it exists and no team has ever properly set themselves us to take a run for it.

On the QB question, totally either or, it just depends on how the chips fall. Really it's like this. Imagine I'm the GM and Stafford and I are having a casual chat. I''m basically explaining to him that I think he has great potential, but unfortunately the logic dictates that he is a disqualified prospect for being a foundation piece in a elite perpetual dynasty plan. It's impossible for us to win by overpaying anything more than we have to get to the desired output levels, and unfortunately timing and circumstances just turn Stafford into an unusual animal that cannot fit into the system if we want to maximize the odds of winning the most amount of games in the long-term. It's all objective and subjective to determine, and there's not much worrying about the variances from one GM's opinion to another on the more tangible and objective evaluations that are close to each other, the key to worry about is getting a handle on all the subjective stuff and the outside of the box logical dynamics that are associated with winning in football. When you play these things out whether in a computer simulation or your mind, if you operate with the best logic possible, my contention is that logic and common sense will prove to you that it is impossible to gamble on Stafford and have a higher EXPECTED overall cumulative ending value than under an assortment of MANY other options, some of which have TREMENDOUSLY higher ending values and with greater projected odds of coming to fruition, along with increased odds on maintaining the perpetuity of the dynasty IMO.

And sure an average QB can win. In actuality, one of the builds for our team we could have gone with is to completely dominate the entire roster of all positions minus the QB position. The result is a massive advantage that has never been seen before by any NFL team of all non-QB positions, playing with a super advantage at 21/22 at the expense of the 1 most valuable position is a tradeoff that would result in a dominance greater than potentially the greatest team in NFL history, and with QB being the most valuable position and one you can sometimes plan for to get that Brees FA or that high draft pick, if you can then get lucky and then get that final hit, you can then not only beat the best of history, but then hit a 2nd lap after another plateau for a chance to either contend for being one of the best teams ever OR contend for being the first team to hit the 2nd plateau of this theoretical success group.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#247 » by chrbal » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:31 pm

Icness wrote:TSE--I'm trying to figure out what your orgnaizational strategy is regarding QBs. Because you've lost me somewhere along the way, but I think it's this: You want a perennial Pro Bowler, but you don't want to pay him. That is the way of the Cleveland Indians, my friend, which is why I no longer follow baseball.

Also, what is your philosophy on the young QB--do you build the line first and then go after your QB, or do you take the stud QB (say Steve Young) and then build the line around his skills? And do you believe that an average QB behind a good line can win (see Jake Delhomme and Eli Manning), or that a superstar QB can win behind an average line (see Big Ben or Kurt Warner)? Which route would you go?


He hates the Lions QBs, talks like a lawyer, and would always want someone else. Stafford could be amazing this year and he'll be scouting the draft for the Lions QB of the future. I honestly think he outright hates the lions and maybe was fired from their organization. I've seen and known fans that don't like the Lions. TSE takes it to a whole different level.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#248 » by TSE » Sat May 1, 2010 5:11 pm

I liked Stanton last year, and I also don't mind Shaun Hill. And you don't get the point, there's no doubting that Stafford COULD be great, so could any Round 1 player, so to say that is a waste of your breath because it's irrelevant and already assumed as such anyhow. "Could" isn't good enough. It's not about players just being good, if that was the case why not just offer 20M per year to every good FA you want? Well you can't do that cause then you would have a billion dollar payroll. MONEY is a CONSTRAINT, and there's no reason to use any more money than you have to at ANY position. If you spend one more dollar than you have to, then that's one dollar that comes out of somewhere else. If STafford becomes a HOF QB then we don't have any worries, but you can't guess or assume or hope, you have to calculate the odds for all scenarios, so "x" percent that he translates to a HOF QB, and "y" percent for not making it or other percents for various failure levels. Thus, the proper strategy is to figure out the cost/benefit penalty if he busts, as well as the value to the reward if he pans out. And the penalty is too high and the bonus is too small to make him a logical investment. He has no business being a part of our destiny, it's just not the right play cause now the collection of the remaining 20 starters/key players are taking the hit. The hit is avoidable if you think long-term and outside of the box, and Mayhew doesn't have the foggiest of how to do that, but it can be done, it just takes the right sequence of moves to uncover that bounty. And that bounty works for you on the field, like as if you had a 12th man.

And I love the Lions, this is my thing man, football, I take this stuff very seriously, I LOVE this team more than you could possibly know. Just about every one of your observations is false w/the exception of maybe talking like a lawyer or taking things to a different level, but those 2 things are good things. I'm not a sloppy communicator and it's in my nature to be on another level than my peers, that's just what I do. I'm a professional at beating everybody else at anything that is important.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#249 » by chrbal » Tue May 4, 2010 7:50 pm

Is it wrong that I think the Lions should put a claim on Ex-Colts receiver Roy Hall?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... tml-201053
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Re: Around the League 

Post#250 » by ajaX82 » Tue May 4, 2010 9:03 pm

chrbal wrote:Is it wrong that I think the Lions should put a claim on Ex-Colts receiver Roy Hall?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... tml-201053


I see nothing to suggest he is any good. Hes already 26 years old, he has one career catch in the NFL, and his senior season at OSU he grabbed all of 13 balls.

So no, no waiver claim. We have enough WRs as is
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Re: Around the League 

Post#251 » by Icness » Wed May 5, 2010 12:33 pm

He's never recovered from that injury he got his rookie year. Too bad because he was a WR in a TE body with real good hands.

Strange Roy Hall trivia--he's the only Big Ten player ever to block a punt in 3 consecutive games.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#252 » by Icness » Wed May 5, 2010 12:54 pm

From the latest piece, some critical encouragement for Calvin Johnson:
1. Calvin Johnson--The Lions wideout has periodically dominated, but the first three years of his career have not produced what the Lions hoped for when they drafted him #2 overall in 2007. Several minor injuries have blunted his output, and lackluster QB play has hindered his progress. For the Lions to make a giant leap forward, it’s time for Johnson to put up significantly more than his 64 catch, 1022 yard, 7 TD career season average. Those numbers aren’t bad, but they’re not the numbers of a legit #1 wide receiver on a good team. With Matt Stafford coming back after a solid rookie year under his belt, and with vastly improved weaponry (Burleson, Scheffler, Best, Pettigrew) around him, it’s time for Johnson to live up to the hype.

I equate it to another highly drafted Johnson, Andre in Houston. Andre Johnson put up good-not-great numbers his first few seasons before breaking out into an elite All-Pro talent once the Texans got him both a capable QB and a decent supporting cast. Anything short of 80 catches for 1400 yards and 10 TDs will be a disappointment for Calvin Johnson this season, because the talent and opportunity are there. For the Lions to threaten 8 wins--which would be a resounding success--Calvin Johnson must consistently produce the monster numbers most everyone expected of him already.


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Re: Around the League 

Post#253 » by TSE » Wed May 5, 2010 4:59 pm

Wow I vehemently disagree that 8 wins would be a resounding success, in fact it is a TERRIBLE outcome. Our team should be building logically for the future, and we haven't done that in one offseason since I've been alive. Our neglect of proper building should come with a tradeoff, that tradeoff being that we are an extra awesome force in present years due to our selling our future off by not building towards the logical efficiencies that come with a long-term genius design. You either get in the playoffs or you set yourself up for all future years, and to end up with 8 would show a massive failure in both making the playoffs AND setting up the future, you can't lose both things in a given season, you must ALWAYS win one and SHOULD always win TWO in the long-term once you have a sustainable logical machine set up. 8 wins is no-man's land and would be confirmation that we have achieved another monumental disappointment.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#254 » by chrbal » Wed May 5, 2010 5:30 pm

Evidentally I had the right idea, but the wrong guy. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... tml-201054
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Re: Around the League 

Post#255 » by Icness » Thu May 6, 2010 2:26 pm

chrbal wrote:Evidentally I had the right idea, but the wrong guy. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... tml-201054


Mitchell intrigued me in his draft. WAS let him go because he could not get separation and can't block and wasn't good on special teams. At the very least he's worth the look.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#256 » by Icness » Thu May 6, 2010 2:33 pm

Saints gave guard Jahri Evans a deal that pays him almost $60M. That's just insane :nonono:

Pacman will be a Bengal any minute now, primarily for a look as a return man. Better Cincy than Detroit. What interests me here is that they have Quan Cosby as a return guy and drafted Jordan Shipley to give him competition. If Cosby gets cut I would hope the Lions pick him up, he's better than Williams on punts, but that's not saying much.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#257 » by TSE » Thu May 6, 2010 3:40 pm

Ehh, I'd rather use Best for punts and returns unless somebody else makes a strong case. Especially for the first quarter of the season where we have 3 division road games and our season will be made or broken after game 4 with a strong likelihood. Time to go for the wins and let our premium Best prospect/player give us a chance to win these games, put Best out there and hope for the Best and after game 4 we can decide something different from there.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#258 » by Bartender » Thu May 6, 2010 8:19 pm

Nah, I'd rather keep Best in the backfield as our feature back and not let him return kicks or punts to lesson his chances of getting another injury.
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Re: Around the League 

Post#259 » by ajaX82 » Thu May 6, 2010 8:37 pm

Bartender wrote:Nah, I'd rather keep Best in the backfield as our feature back and not let him return kicks or punts to lesson his chances of getting another injury.


Yeah i cant think of too many teams that have their starting RB returning kicks and punts
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Re: Around the League 

Post#260 » by TSE » Thu May 6, 2010 9:19 pm

The NFL teams are all run by stupid people and just because they aren't doing it doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. Not one team in the NFL has a qualified GM by my standards.

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