Draft Talk

[Icness]

Notable 40 times (unofficial ATM) from the 2nd group:

Patrick Peterson = 4.32
Buster Skrine = 4.29
Jimmy Smith = 4.38
Aaron Williams = 4.53


Missed the 1st group, so I didn't get the 40 times for Harris or Prince. Can anyone fill us in?

Prince ran a 4.37. Harris 4.43

I love Dowling as a 2nd rounder but his propensity for getting hurt is troubling.

Chris Culliver helped himself at 4.40 and he has some good tape. Not a lot, but some. Johnny Patrick didn't run great but he's a "more quick than fast" guy with good instincts.

Buster Skrine at 4.29 is real impressive but he's very raw. Think Aaron Brown as a corner--you can see the potential but it's going to take a lot of strong, intensive coaching to bring it out. But dude has the fastest feet I've ever seen and he showed good hands today. I met him at NFLPA week and he looked okay--great break on the ball but he's a grabber and guesser in coverage. Not a lick of hitting to him.

[ajaX82]

Solder first round, Dowling second round

[Bartender]

ajax, you trying to get me to kill myself?

[ajaX82]

ajax, you trying to get me to kill myself?

Probably not. You no like my picks?

[Bartender]

I wouldn't like either. Castonzo would be my pick if we went OT, but I'd still rather go a different route. Also, I don't trust Ras-I. He suffered 3 different injuries this past season, than pulls a hammy running a forty in front of every NFL team.

The realistic people I would take in the first are: (in no order)
Prince Amukamara (if he falls)
Mark Ingram
Julio Jones
JJ Watt
Aldon Smith
Brandon Harris



Second round:
Mason Foster
Bruce Carter
Martez Wilson

[ajaX82]

^ I'm feelin ya on Martez Wilson or Bruce Carter...I would strongly consider either guy in the second.

Absolutely not to Ingram or Jones. of course I take Amukamara if he falls though. Watt interests me but I am unsure of not fixing other higher need areas. Not as high on Castonzo either but I could be convinced with a good argument i suppose

[TSE]

Solder is a weak ass dude with only 21 bench press reps. I don't think we should draft a girl that can't even outbench the RB that you are absolutely against. How's that for an argument?

To Bartender, I think the DE class is deep so to go with Watt or Aldon at 13 is a weak value with guys like Kerrigan still on the board then that are arguably better, so I would take those DEs off the list, and Brandon Harris having only 4 career INTs (low PDs too) in college just doesn't justify that high of a pick either. So for your list the only guys that I like are Prince, Jones, and Ingram whom I can't disqualify as possibly being worthy of that high of a pick.

[kellmellus50]

Solder is a weak ass dude with only 21 bench press reps. I don't think we should draft a girl that can't even outbench the RB that you are absolutely against. How's that for an argument?

To Bartender, I think the DE class is deep so to go with Watt or Aldon at 13 is a weak value with guys like Kerrigan still on the board then that are arguably better, so I would take those DEs off the list, and Brandon Harris having only 4 career INTs (low PDs too) in college just doesn't justify that high of a pick either. So for your list the only guys that I like are Prince, Jones, and Ingram whom I can't disqualify as possibly being worthy of that high of a pick.

To TSE.....Of the 3 choices you made i like both JJ and Ingram and would be happy with either one.They would give the lions the biggest bang for next season(best two choices). As for prince i don't see him availabe at 13 and also i don't see him as a big bang player that the lion would pick for #1.They also have bigger needs at other 3 positions including running back,reciever and linebacker.

experts say there’s a drop-off after the top two cornerbacks -- Patrick Peterson (LS) and Prince Amukamara (Nebraska) thats why they will be taken early in the first.

Mayhew has said he will take the best available player with the 13th overall pick, within reason

[Bartender]

Watt is 6'6", 290 pounds, and finished in the top 5 of EVERY dline drill in the combine. Add that to crazy good game tape and I don't see how he's not a top ten player in this draft.

As for Ingram, if we want to protect Staffy, Ingram would be a great way to do it. He would boost our run game and he's one of the best pass protection rb's in this draft. Jahvid can't block and neither can Felton so Staffy is by himself back there.

Julio would make a great duo with Calvin and would be one of the few draft prospects that would make an immediate impact on this team. Outside of Calvin and Nate, we have no talent at the WR position and Nate is getting old and inconsistent.

[TSE]

JJ Watt is a fine prospect and all, but we really don't want to go DL with our first pick, on a guy who isn't spectacular. He's not even one of the best 2 DEs in the draft, and experts can easily lump in many more DEs that are too closely valued as him as a prospect that due to his own competition for his position and DE not being important enough for us to take a gamble on a guy who is one of many just doesn't fit well for us.

The problem here is that we don't have good shape for this draft because once again we have failed to prepare for this moment by making moves last year and the year before to set ourselves up to be in a position to get an ideal player that makes sense for us in such a way that we maximize the value of that pick in coordination with our past and future picks and other transactions. We keep putting ourselves in strategic no-man's land situations and that continuously saps our ability to get better and to the best level that we can be as a team and I'm annoyed once again by these confounding moves and non-moves.

[ajaX82]

kell, just for you: http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/20 ... ara_c.html

Enjoy!

[Icness]

Hmm...that sounds a lot like what someone else said a couple of days ago...

Bunting and I must have talked to the same Lions guy about Harris, he is the #13 pick in my mock as well. I wouldn't take him in the 2nd round, let alone at #13, but I'm not Martin Mayhew.

Prince ran fast but if you look at the next two drills he did not look good. On the backpedal transition, he is way too high and he has a pause to his turn. That's why he got beat deep in college more often than he should have. Then on the "hip flip" drill he took an extra step every time he flipped it. A lot of the DBs there did that and it didn't impact Joe Haden (who ran 4.6) last year from going high.

I know Jimmy Smith is not an option for Detroit, but just consider that he had 5 PDs last year out of 19 passes thrown at him, according to Sporting News. Amukamara had 11 in 56 passes. Neither had an INT. Smith had eight more tackles and based on the opportunities thrown at, he's clearly better at coming off his man and making the play on the run. That was Haden's trump card last year--he could make plays on the ball. Prince had a much more impactful year in 2009 so it's harder to knock him in that regard. But that's the kind of stuff GMs and coaches are looking at when deciding on players, especially high first round picks. TSE is absolutely correct in arguing about needing impact plays up there; it's why I'm not a Marcell Dareus fan either, not in the top 10. And I think that will be used against Prince by most teams when they can get a more impactful pass rusher like Aldon Smith or Robert Quinn or JJ Watt--who incidentally had more PDs than any corner mentioned here.

[kellmellus50]

kell, just for you: http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/20 ... ara_c.html

Enjoy!

Lets say prince dropped to the 13th in the draft i still say the lions would not pick him.
Their are better players to choose from at that spot. Including JJ and Ingram .



look at the top performers below i also like hankerson at the combine

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performe ... CB-OL-SPEC

[Piston Pete]

Will be a fun draft.

1) CB Prince A.
2) OLB Bruce Carter
3) WR Hankerson (any way he makes it this long?)

[TSE]

Still don't think Prince will be there, there's just not enough good prospects to fill that top 12 and Prince being the 2nd CB on the board and having sweet speed is enough that somebody will pick him. There's absolutely nothing wrong with picking Prince at 13, he's just about the best we can hope for at that spot, so we should start making mocks with the assumption that he's not there, just in case, cause to pick him if he is available is too easy and popular of a choice, the trick is figuring out what to do in the event that you don't have your number 1 choice and a glut of indistinguishable number 2's, that's what makes it fun!

[cochiseuofm]

I'm sure the Lions will be filling their big board with more than 13 players, so I'm not too concerned about them being prepared for Prince not being there. Nor have I been saying he will be there, for sure. And maybe, still, he might not even be the right pick for them. My only real point was to act like it was a certainty he wouldn't be there, like kell kept insisting, based on mocks would be dumb of the Lions. Personally, I'd rather trade down if there are takers right now, haven't changed my mind about that in a while.

And I want zero part in drafting a RB or WR in the first-round.

[Piston Pete]

I think if Prince isn't there, we should trade down to get one of:

(in no particular order)
CB Smith
CB Harris
OT Costonzo
OT Solder
OT Smith
OT Carimi

[Icness]

I think an explanation of what I've done for a team the last couple of years might help here. I was contracted to simulate hundreds of draft scenarios to help prepare them for the draft. Some seemed completely illogical, some were themed (like early runs on QBs, or DTs falling, etc.), some had trades. The team used this exercise to help figure out who might be available at their draft spots based on what was happening before they picked. Do we have to trade up to get Player X, and how far? What teams are going to be interested in Player W if he's on the board when we pick, and who could we still get if we move backwards? Probably 98% of my efforts were rendered worthless by what other teams did, or free agency, or the team changing its mind on its own board.

The point is every team does this, often a lot more extensively than what I offer. So lack of prep is not an issue.

[TSE]

I'm sure the Lions will be filling their big board with more than 13 players, so I'm not too concerned about them being prepared for Prince not being there. Nor have I been saying he will be there, for sure. And maybe, still, he might not even be the right pick for them. My only real point was to act like it was a certainty he wouldn't be there, like kell kept insisting, based on mocks would be dumb of the Lions. Personally, I'd rather trade down if there are takers right now, haven't changed my mind about that in a while.

And I want zero part in drafting a RB or WR in the first-round.

I'm not worried about the Lions not being prepared, I'm talking about the guys in here. I see a lot of people who just make their pick, and they are picking a guy who is likely not to be there, and I see the lack of preparation from the users, not concerned about the Lions, they are going to have all their homework done regardless and do what they do anyhow, that doesn't matter, it's out of our hands and already taken care of. And yeah the trade down is clearly looking better to me than taking any guy that could be available, I'm like 99% sure that I won't be happy with who will be on the board when we pick. (if we don't make trades that is to change our shape)

[ajaX82]

I think an explanation of what I've done for a team the last couple of years might help here. I was contracted to simulate hundreds of draft scenarios to help prepare them for the draft. Some seemed completely illogical, some were themed (like early runs on QBs, or DTs falling, etc.), some had trades. The team used this exercise to help figure out who might be available at their draft spots based on what was happening before they picked. Do we have to trade up to get Player X, and how far? What teams are going to be interested in Player W if he's on the board when we pick, and who could we still get if we move backwards? Probably 98% of my efforts were rendered worthless by what other teams did, or free agency, or the team changing its mind on its own board.

The point is every team does this, often a lot more extensively than what I offer. So lack of prep is not an issue.

You get paid to make up mock drafts is what you're telling me Jeff? Where do I sign up?