Draft Talk

[kellmellus50]

Overall: You really have to like what Mayhew accomplished in this draft. He got Suh, Best and Spievey -- three impact players. Fox is a question mark. Young and Toone are longshots. Still, it would've been a nice bonus to see the Lions go after an outside linebacker late in the draft instead of toone. I credit Mayhew for getting a lot of his shopping done through trades and free-agent pickups before the draft. The master plan is starting to take shape but will need a great draft next year.
Grade: B+

edited the title kell, hope thats cool

- ajaX

[Icness]

Best needs to stay healthy but he's been better than expected.

Suh is having a rare impact for a rookie DT, like a once-in-a-generation type impact. He gets so much love and respect from football people all over the place. A lot of people that I deal with professionally inside the league know I'm a Lions fan and they go out of their ways to tell me how awesome they think Suh is. It's pretty cool to have that kind of player.

The late picks don't bother me much if they miss. Less than half the 7th round picks made their teams over the last 3 years. In that range you're typically going for a niche need (pass rushing DE/OLB, slot CB, 3rd down back, return man) or a raw project.

I'm doing the v2.0 mock right now and have the Lions going offensive tackle in the 1st and ILB in the 2nd. For now...

[TSE]

Well statistically I expected a better rushing average from Best. He has a paltry 3.2 avg on 80 carries which is especially weak considering he's had a couple of nice lengthy runs, so the bulk of his runs are down from 3.2. I personally wanted us to trade him at the early point because I think other teams would have overvalued him and paid a big premium for him beyond what he's worth, and time-wise it makes more sense to me to defer filling the RB need with a slight delay and to shift that value to another key hole or two with the way we are set up. We would have had a better location for our player value and an extra bonus to spread around. He is extremely exciting to watch and one of my favorite players to have that we don't trade when we should, but I also fear he will have injury problems his whole career and I would rather invest my chips as bets against his health, I just think it's a better value play overall.

[Icness]

I agree that the average per rush is low, but I don't understand your concept of trading him. If you are willing to trade him, that indicates to other teams that something is wrong with him and you won't get value in return. Plus the market for RBs is hypersaturated already. Teams can find Ryan Torain or Chris Ivory off the street and get 150 yard games out of them. Look at it this way--let's say the Chiefs are willing to trade Dexter McCluster because he's not really a RB and not really a WR. Wouldn't it send warning signals to you that a team is so willing to give up on what appears to be a great talent so readily? If I were a GM I'd dig REAL deep to find out why a player like that is available and I know I'm not going to like what I find.

[TSE]

Not an indication that something's wrong with him. Everybody knows CJ is great, but they wouldnt think there is something wrong with him by wanting to trade him. Rather I explain if CJ has "x" years left, well one of those years is this year, and that's not worth anything to me, so I want a team that values "x" as it should like I do, but there is a margin of value in getting paid for THIS year that another team can make use of him towards a SB run. That should net us a margin overall. And I'm not trading him just to trade him, there's 31 teams that would look at CJ, and I'm only dealing with the #1 team that values the "x" level the highest to begin with, so I get a double margin, one for finding somebody that estimates his value for the long-term higher than I do, and two for getting a future player in exchange for 2010 dead weight player units. If you have a new car and you dont have anywhere to go this year and you will stay at home and never leave, well it's better value to not take that depreciation hit and WAIT until next year to buy the car, or if you have the car and can actually get a buyer to pay you HIGHER than the blue book or even the blue book value, that is a profit in itself, and possibly like I said a double profit.

I don't care what teams dig and where they dig, I don't have to sell them on Best, I'm just asking what anybody is willing to pay for any of my players, and those that match will match, and negotiations will ensue and a deal will be consummated with them or with somebody else, but I'll find MULTIPLE teams that will overpay me for Best, it's only a question of just how much exploitation I can gain, not a question of if I will find some, I GUARANTEE you with my job and reputation on the line that I will find some. So if you represent a team that says no I think CJ isn't worth a lot, well then fine, I'll chalk you up to an abortion and bank on that not being the response from the other 30 teams, and I WILL win in proving that somebody else will play ball and then they will have CJ and you won't, that's fine, I'll still find my deal 100% for sure, good luck finding a future HOF WR to you.

And yeah that's why I want to get rid of Best, so we can find a cheap RB, but some teams choose to invest into RBs, like us, we used a Rd1 pick on it! And other teams use higher, and teams that want to pay for a SPECIAL RB will pay. Best had huge TD totals early and high catch totals, we could have totally ripped off a team if we dealt him then, we missed a window of opportunity for a HUGE STEAL. Same thing with the Tigers not trading Polanco when he was an all-star. I didnt value him as an all-star, and I knew he would depreciate away without any logical championship odds to match. We could have got a premium and deferred his value to this coming season, but now we don't have those values or bonuses and they dried up in a fight that wasn't worth fighting for as we weren't ready for the fight then. It's all about timing and managing of the resources to get a full team to gel together and prosper and build indefinitely until they can be the best team. Plus it is only with near perfect planning that you can become the greatest and maintain that advantage consistently. The only other possible way to do it is with getting randomly lucky beyond what statistics suggest is practical, but you can force yourself into being successful if you always make great deals when they are possible to manufacture.

[ajaX82]

Suh has obviosuly been awesome so far and you cant help but have very high hopes for his future. Best has shown lots of flashes and look every part the back he is. Turf toe is a bitch though, so he will be kinda limited for a while. Still very happy there

The Spievey pick is not looking so hot. The rest are ?

For now, just getting Suh and Best makes me pretty damn happy. Obiously in the 2011 draft we need LT, CB, LB and SS

[Icness]

TSE--on paper your theory makes some sense, but it's just not realistic in the world of dealing with agents and locker rooms and coaches and opposing GMs. If you tried to do that no agent would ever let any of their players sign with you unless you vastly overpay them...which the Fords won't do. Plus the fans would leave in droves because all the dealing away of obvious talent will just piss them off too much. Happened to the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Seattle Sonics--enough that they had to leave town.

Actually the method you are describing aptly pinpoints the Cleveland Indians of my childhood in the 70s and early 80s; every time a player showed something, they dealt him for picks or multiple players with potential on the concept of selling high. The only one that worked out was sending Rick Sutcliffe to the Cubs for Joe Carter and Mel Hall. And lots of times they got back so-called "top" prospects or players that most perceived as legit up-and-comers. There's a reason they barely drew 10K per game for over a decade and should have left town (they & the Cavs bamboozled Cleveland into building a new stadium complex, which caused the Browns to leave instead). You might get two years to try it before any ownership group would send you packing. Okay, maybe the Fords give you 4...It ain't Madden my friend.

[TSE]

Ain't Madden? No, it's not Madden, it's the real world where the Lions have sucked eternally. I'm just changing that over, don't need a video game to dictate how I should manage the roster, I can do whatever I want. The players I want to trade all have value, if they didn't then they could all be cut and then we wouldn't be losing anything by cutting players that have zero value, but you'd be surprised how many players we could pawn off for profit to other teams, and every little bit counts and we just get as much as we can get, whatever amount is available for the taking, and there's lots to go around.

[TSE]

Anybody ever see a RB with a 42.5 yard average on 36 carries? I haven't, but according to CBS Sportsline they have!

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... uri-tigers just scroll down to the team leaders. LOL

[TNBT]

Can someone here tell me how to pronounce Ndamukong Suh?

[ajaX82]

en dom a kun soo (??)

[TNBT]

en dom a kun soo (??)

Thanks for that.

[Liqourish]

I agree with Icness for the most part. I also agree with kellmellus. I went into the draft wanting Suh @ #1 and hoping for quality picks the rest of the way with an emphasis on RB and DB. And we did that. We got Suh, who is a beast along our D-line. We traded up for Best at RB who has done well despite turf toe and we got Spievey who looks like he just might be a good safety in this league. But he needs more playing time. Jason Fox got drafted while injured (one of the reasons he fell) but seems like he could make a nice OT.

We also have to look at the rest of the "picks". Mayhew traded 4th to 7th rd picks for Corey Williams, Rob Sims, Chris Houston and Shaun Hill. So far through 6 games, I can't find fault with any of these. All four guys are playing well for us, and all 4 guys have started for us (Shaun Hill due to injury). Rob Sims has done well between Backus and Raiola. That side of the O-line seems solid now. Corey Williams has looked rejuvenated out there back in the 4-3. Chris Houston looks solid as a #2 CB. He's okay as a #1, but if we draft a #1, like Patrick Peterson out of LSU, Chris Houston would make a great #2. Shaun Hill filled in admirably for Stafford for 5 and a half games. He just might be the best damn backup QB in the league.

Overall, I don't think a team got more for their picks, than Mayhew did with the picks we had. Especially if we get anything at all out of Willie Young or Time Toone, both picked in the 7th rd.

Ndamukong Suh- starter, potential pro-bowler?
Jahvid Best- starter
Amari Spievey- backup S, learning new position
Jason Fox- developing OT
Corey Williams- starter
Rob Sims- starter
Chris Houston- starter
Shaun Hill- backup, part time starter
Willie Young- developing
Tim Toone- practice squad

[kellmellus50]

Plus the lions picked players off the wire like , Stefan Logan,Ashlee Palmer, Bobby Carpenter
.who will help the lions.

The Detroit Lions sign unrestricted free agents WR Nate Burleson and DE Kyle Vanden Bosch.

traded for Afonzo Smith , and Cory Williams what a steal

This looks like they are heading in the right direction,but we need better coaching.

[Bartender]

This looks like they are heading in the right direction,but we need better coaching.

What's wrong with our coaching? Corey Willams and Alphonso Smith and Chris Houston were all garbage on their old teams, but come here and are being productive. That's the work of the coaches. You can't say that Alphonso and Corey are steals but not give credit to the reason they are playing so well. Instead, you bash them saying they aren't doing their jobs, when I think they are doing a hell of a job bringing out the best in our players.

[kellmellus50]

This looks like they are heading in the right direction,but we need better coaching.

What's wrong with our coaching? Corey Willams and Alphonso Smith and Chris Houston were all garbage on their old teams, but come here and are being productive. That's the work of the coaches. You can't say that Alphonso and Corey are steals but not give credit to the reason they are playing so well. Instead, you bash them saying they aren't doing their jobs, when I think they are doing a hell of a job bringing out the best in our players.

They are doing ok with the draft and picking up players and the jury is still out on Stafford over Sanchez (5wins-1loss),But theirs a lot more too coaching which is play calling (bad) example 3-4 run plays at the 1 and you never throw to calvin johnson ,penaltys, which they lead the NFL .

14 seconds till half and choose not to run another play or two and send a pass to calvin johnson in the end zone the coach choose to run the clock down and kick a field goal (very stupid)

[Piston Pete]

Iceness...

I think in next season's draft, we have to build up the defense. IMO, we'll go:

1) CB or OLB

2) OLB or CB

3) S

4) OLB

5-7) Best available (probably an O-lineman, WR, and another defensive player)

[kellmellus50]

Bryant johnson only 7 catches and Nate Burleson 12 catches are vets doing bad at WR.

We need to draft a WR with are 1st choice to help calvin johnson.watch the lions draft a WR and everybody will be surprised except me.

[Liqourish]

Nate Burleson missed time due to injury. As a 4th/5th option on offense, he hasn't been bad at all.

With Stafford out of the line-up, we had to adjust to Shaun Hills lacking arm strength. So we saw more short passes and screen passes to Best, Pettigrew and Scheffler. When Hill did throw it deep, he targeted Calvin by throwing up "jump balls". It was designed that way to help out our backup QB.

With Stafford back, I expect more targets for Calvin AND Burleson deep. Although I hope we don't ignore out TEs now that our gunslinger is on the field.

I agree that Bryant Johnson isn't getting the job done. But he's a 6th option on offense. Instead of focusing on drafting a WR, why not just give those few looks to the WR we drafted last season, Derrick Williams, and see what we have there? Not only can we develop Williams, but we could cut B. Johnson and his oversized contract.

A #1 CB, some LBs and maybe a LT are more pressing needs than a #3 WR who'll get maybe 20-25 targets all season long.

[ajaX82]

Bryant johnson only 7 catches and Nate Burleson 12 catches are vets doing bad at WR.

We need to draft a WR with are 1st choice to help calvin johnson.watch the lions draft a WR and everybody will be surprised except me.

A WR with our first round pick? You must be joking...

Unless you are Matt Millen of course