Lions 2013 Free Agency idea thread

[Piston Pete]

A lot of the media speculation has us looking at Reggie Bush. I say we need to spend our cap space wisely, and although Bush could be good here, I feel we have more pressing needs.

My current list of targets:

1) Re-sign CB Houston
2) Re-sign OT Cherilus
3) Re-sign DE Avril
4) Re-sign OLBs Levy and Durant
4) Sign CB Sean Smith (Miami)
5) Sign WR Ramses Barden (Giants)
6) Sign RB Rashad Jennings (Jags)

[Blkbrd671]

i would love a guy like charles woodson or ed reed on this team. Our defense lacks a leader. Delmas could never stay on the field, but our defense was clearly better with a leader on the field.


Dwight Freeny? any chance we look at him? he's older but cheaper.

[ajaX82]

Apparently we have an interest in Reggie Bush. We do need a speed back and he has a good pair of hands out of the backfield

[Blkbrd671]

i'm weary about Bush he has a injury history and he's considered old for a RB. If we can get him at a decent price i'd pull the trigger, however i'm comfortable with Bell and Leshoure in our back field. would rather spend the money in addressing other area's of need.

[Icness]

The interest in Bush is def. legit and both sides want it to happen. Reggie wants to return kicks and the Lions want him to be the primary return guy. Not every team will give him that. It's not a lock though; he will need to sign a very cap-friendly deal, something like 3 yr/$18M with the bulk of the money back loaded.

I hadn't really thought about him but I like the concept of Sean Smith. Again, he'll have to accept not getting much $$ up front and that's a tough sell, but I liked him coming out and his size and ball skills are what the Lions are looking for. I'll have to dig on what he's looking for.

Just my opinion but Kris Durham is better than Ramses Barden. Dude couldn't get open in D-II, one of the least quick wideouts I've ever seen.

The Avril and Houston situations have such an impact on the Lions draft strategy. I know they want both back, and I know they will offer Avril the same 3 yr/$30M deal they did last summer and I very seriously doubt they offer one penny more. I don't know what they will offer Houston.

Piston Pete--you left off Delmas. Was that intentional? Not judging, just asking.

[Blkbrd671]

The interest in Bush is def. legit and both sides want it to happen. Reggie wants to return kicks and the Lions want him to be the primary return guy. Not every team will give him that. It's not a lock though; he will need to sign a very cap-friendly deal, something like 3 yr/$18M with the bulk of the money back loaded.

Just to return kicks? if we did sign him , would he be a situational back or would they be looking to move bell or leshoure down in the pecking ordeR?

The Avril and Houston situations have such an impact on the Lions draft strategy. I know they want both back, and I know they will offer Avril the same 3 yr/$30M deal they did last summer and I very seriously doubt they offer one penny more. I don't know what they will offer Houston.

Piston Pete--you left off Delmas. Was that intentional? Not judging, just asking.

Avril by all indications will most certainly get better offers else where. what incentive does he have to stay? also Houston looks like he'll be commanding quite a bit of money, could we just franchise him? As for delmas, i would love him back, but i highly doubt he'll play 8 games this season

[Icness]

Bush would get 8-12 touches a game on about 33% of the offensive snaps. Primarily 3rd down back (taking away from Bell there) but also some slot WR work, some stretch runs, formations to manipulate the defense. I know Schwartz still loves Leshoure but wants someone more dynamic in space than Leshoure and Bell. And that's in addition to Bush being the PR/KR.

I agree that Avril will likely get a better offer elsewhere, but he'll have to get it very early in free agency and take it right away.

[Blkbrd671]

Bush would get 8-12 touches a game on about 33% of the offensive snaps. Primarily 3rd down back (taking away from Bell there) but also some slot WR work, some stretch runs, formations to manipulate the defense. I know Schwartz still loves Leshoure but wants someone more dynamic in space than Leshoure and Bell. And that's in addition to Bush being the PR/KR.

I agree that Avril will likely get a better offer elsewhere, but he'll have to get it very early in free agency and take it right away.

i think i might cry tears of happiness not watching logan trying to field punts and having a positive feeling everytime our special teams steps on the field

[Piston Pete]

My thoughts on Delmas; I'm indifferent on his re-signing. I like him when he's healthy -- but how often is he healthy?


I would not be upset if we re-signed him, and if so, hope he can find a way to stay on the field.

But at the same time, I wouldn't be overly upset if we decided to move on. Rather have a slightly lesser player there all 16 weeks than 8 weeks with Delmas and 8 weeks with some random backup/filler/scrub.


Ice -- I don't know much about Kris Durham. Care to fill me in on whether you think his ceiling is higher than Barden's? I just like Barden's combination of size and youth - and he performed well in the little time he was given in NY. I do worry about him being a little stiff. Overall, I hate how we've surrounded CJ with small WRs - Nate being the biggest of all these other guys, which isn't saying much.

Also -- not liking the idea of going after Bush to be 3rd down back and kick returner. Isn't that something we could find in the 3rd-5th rounds of the draft for a fraction of the price?

[Blkbrd671]

The thing i like about delmas was that he was our general on the defensive end. always talking and i personally could see our defense with a little more "SWAG" when he was on the field. its keeping him on it that is the question. i think i remember reading that we could sign him to a 1 year "prove it" deal. i thought the vanilla gorilla did well in the few minutes he got. he ran a couple wrong routes but going from the practice squad to starting is a big jump and i'd chalk it up to nerves

[Goldtop]

The interest in Bush is def. legit and both sides want it to happen. Reggie wants to return kicks and the Lions want him to be the primary return guy. Not every team will give him that. It's not a lock though; he will need to sign a very cap-friendly deal, something like 3 yr/$18M with the bulk of the money back loaded.

If this is true, I'll be the happiest Lion fan ever. Bush is #1 on my offseason want list. I honestly couldn't dream up a more perfect fit, and exactly what we need on offense and special teams. I could see him in a Darren Sproles type roll. Returning kicks while also being that check down back we've lacked since Best. In fact, I think Reggie would be a big upgrade over what we had with Best. To me, he's the final piece to the puzzle on offense, like Rasheed was to the Pistons. We'll still need a lot of work on defense to get to a championship level like the Pistons did, obviously, but I feel certain with Bush we'd have a championship offense in place. And possible a championship special teams as well with him returning kicks. I think that highly of his talent.

And at 28 he's not old by any means, given his style of play. Its the in-between the tackles, every down power backs like Peterson that don't have long careers. Bush has always kept his carries low his entire career. He's never had to carry the whole load, and doesn't take the pounding that most do because he mostly runs on the perimeter. imo, I think he could play at this level now until he's 31-32 at least. If we can't put together a super bowl team around Megatron, Bush, Stafford, and Suh in 3-4 yrs, then we never will. Pay him what he asks for and lets do this!

[ajaX82]

Yeah for the right price Bush sounds like a great fit. We need a speed guy who can stretch the D and return better than Logan, who was awful last year. He would have the potential to really elevate the offense to another level

[Blkbrd671]

Now here's the question, do we sign Bush at whatever cost and lose the ability to resign houston and/or Avril? The general feeling here is that Bush is the missing piece on offense, however if i recall last year the problem on offense was stafford was inconsistent and the play calling was questionable. The trouble on defense was the lack of talent in the secondary and DL was ineffective. It seems one problem we could solve with out spending money while the other we need to spend money. what would be ideal?

[Goldtop]

Now here's the question, do we sign Bush at whatever cost and lose the ability to resign houston and/or Avril? The general feeling here is that Bush is the missing piece on offense, however if i recall last year the problem on offense was stafford was inconsistent and the play calling was questionable. The trouble on defense was the lack of talent in the secondary and DL was ineffective. It seems one problem we could solve with out spending money while the other we need to spend money. what would be ideal?

Bush >>>>> Houston and Avril

I'm surprised how overrated those 2 players are by most Lions fans (in general). Houston is average at best, and can be easily replaced just by drafting Milliner at 5. And imo Avril is only successful because of the double and triple teams that Suh draws. In other words, I think you can put in almost any decent DE in his place and get similar production. If we spend all our money on Bush, we can just go all defense in the draft to replace Houston/Avril. Besides, we've already seen this defense with Houston and Avril and it was nothing special. Time for a change anyways.

As for Stafford, I attribute most of his inconsistency to defenses sending everyone back into coverage, because we have no threat of a run game. By adding Bush, it will draw some of those defenders away from Staffords recievers, making it that much easier for him to succeed.

All those times when we ran a pass play and no one was open, and Stafford had to check down to to our RBs for only 3 yds, with Bush those check downs will be more like 6-7 yd gains. Thats how Brees always can find an open guy every play for what seems like at least 6-7 yd gains, even when no ones open. He's always had either Bush or Sproles to check down to. Thats more valuable to the team as a whole than what Houston and Avril provide, imo

[Piston Pete]

I disagree wholeheartedly....and summed it up in the OP.

Bush is nice, but we have too many holes to be paying top dollar for a complimentry piece like Bush.

This offseason should be focused around improving or pourous D. Once we've done that, THEN look to add a complimentry WR, RB, and overall team depth.

[ajaX82]

I disagree wholeheartedly....and summed it up in the OP.

Bush is nice, but we have too many holes to be paying top dollar for a complimentry piece like Bush.

This offseason should be focused around improving or pourous D. Once we've done that, THEN look to add a complimentry WR, RB, and overall team depth.

This was my initial thought as well. But I thought more about it and I think it's a potentially excellent move

Reggie would be an elite KR/PR, which is huge. Our return game was atrocious last year. A big-time return man really is a big advantage. You also can't discount how bad we need a speed back. Leshore is a nice between the tackles, 3 yards a carry guy. But you need someone else back there. Bush would break absolute game-breaking speed. He can be the 3rd down back. Line up in the slot. Screens and dumpoffs galore. And playing on the turf is only going to up that speed of his.

Someone made the Sproles comparison and I like it. And you cannot quantify how important Sproles is for the NO offense...he absolutely makes it click. I won't be heartbroken if we don't get Reggie, but I think it would be a savvy and really smart offensive move that could pay major dividends

[Blkbrd671]

Bush >>>>> Houston and Avril

I'm surprised how overrated those 2 players are by most Lions fans (in general). Houston is average at best, and can be easily replaced just by drafting Milliner at 5. And imo Avril is only successful because of the double and triple teams that Suh draws. In other words, I think you can put in almost any decent DE in his place and get similar production. If we spend all our money on Bush, we can just go all defense in the draft to replace Houston/Avril. Besides, we've already seen this defense with Houston and Avril and it was nothing special. Time for a change anyways.

Houston is at least a top 15 CB in this league, he's our best CB and whats the point of drafting millner to replace houston doesn't solve our secondary problem. We need to retain all the talent we can in our secondary. You say you can put in any decent DE because of suh, however Young and jackson are considered decent and they didn't thrive either. The problems with avril is the wide 9 scheme. There's a reason why he's highly sought after and its not because he plays next to suh.

If we spend all our money on bush, we are taking a much larger risk than needed and placing all our hopes on rookies? Also our defense was nothing special, but it had almost 0 to do with Avril and houston. we'd go from nothing special to absolutely horrible.

As for Stafford, I attribute most of his inconsistency to defenses sending everyone back into coverage, because we have no threat of a run game. By adding Bush, it will draw some of those defenders away from Staffords recievers, making it that much easier for him to succeed.


All those times when we ran a pass play and no one was open, and Stafford had to check down to to our RBs for only 3 yds, with Bush those check downs will be more like 6-7 yd gains. Thats how Brees always can find an open guy every play for what seems like at least 6-7 yd gains, even when no ones open. He's always had either Bush or Sproles to check down to. Thats more valuable to the team as a whole than what Houston and Avril provide, imo

What does sending everyone back into coverage have to do with consistency. It just meant stafford had to check down more, which at times he struggled doing. Additionally when CJ or other receivers beat their man, stafford struggled being accurate with the long ball. Really no point in having a rocket arm, if you can't aim. While i agree that Bush brings that extra dimension we need, he's productivity offensively isn't going to make up for the lack of production losing 2 of our more talented defensive players,

[Blkbrd671]

I disagree wholeheartedly....and summed it up in the OP.

Bush is nice, but we have too many holes to be paying top dollar for a complimentry piece like Bush.

This offseason should be focused around improving or pourous D. Once we've done that, THEN look to add a complimentry WR, RB, and overall team depth.

Totally agree. IF stafford can even reach a portion of his potential, it shouldn't matter who his wide receivers are, he'll get them the ball. We also have 2 great TE, 2 decent RB. Though offensively we aren't "jugernauts" we have weapons to put up points, its more a matter of not giving up points.

[Sheeeeed]

I don't think its a coincidence once Reggie Bush went from playing on a turf field to a grass field he stayed health. I'd rather not see the Lions take that kind of risk.

[Blkbrd671]

I don't think its a coincidence once Reggie Bush went from playing on a turf field to a grass field he stayed health. I'd rather not see the Lions take that kind of risk.

what does USC play on?