RealGM

. . . According to Football Outsiders.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

A lot of people accuse Football Outsiders of using biased, contrived stats, but it's pretty impossible to statistically rank offensive linemen without some measure of subjectivity. This is about the best you're going to find.

Not surprisingly, Detroit's RBs were stuffed 23% of the time, ranking 30th in the league. This was our biggest problem with the run game last year in my opinion--running backs getting smacked before they had a chance. Naturally this problem is attributable to the interior line, which is further evidence that we need a left guard badly.

Here's where it gets interesting. Running to the left tackle (I'm interpreting this as the gap between LT and LG), the Lions ranked 27th; 31st in middle/guard, and 32nd running off to the right end. Okay, so those aren't interesting. What's interesting is that running off the left end and behind the right tackle, we ranked 6th and 3rd, respectively. Wow. Naturally, if you're running off the left end, the left tackle is going to be your instrumental blocker (and probably a pulling guard or center), while running to the right tackle would mostly be the job of Peterman and Cherilus. Running off left end, the team managed a highly impressive 5.18 adjusted line-yards

In other words, we're really bad running up the middle, but when we run off Backus or behind Cherilus and Peterman we do just fine. Also, Cherilus really sucks when it comes to running down the right end. It makes me wonder if Cherilus should move to guard. His pass protection isn't good--at all, really--but when he teams with Peterman it seems like the Lions get a good push and generate solid yardage.

This site basically states that Backus was our best overall lineman, but the lack of help on his side hurt him statistically. Our biggest weaknesses is our LG and C, and pass blocking on the right side.

I think Raiola is fine. Left and Right guard are the too biggest problems. Especially LG. I heard on the radio today that Backus hasnt played with the same starting LG for more than a year in his career. Not sure if its true, but thinking about it, its prolly not far off.

If we could grab a LG in the second or third and maybe a RG later of in FA i would be happy. God if only we could get Iupati

Stephen Peterman is considered a top ten RG by a lot of people in the NFL right now. I don't know if I want to replace him since he plays so good with Gosder in the run game. If we can get a legit LG who is a difference maker, I think we can have a pretty good line. Not great, but better then half the league.

Jon Asamoah for the win!!!!

Upgrading guard is a priority for Mayhew and Schwartz, they've both talked about it.

I don't see Cherilus moving inside real easily, but it might be worth a shot if he continues to struggle at RT.

Isn't it crazy how Backus has gone from whipping boy to bedrock

^ the problem is LT is the most important position for an O-line and Jeff Backus doesn't play well there. Who knows if he'd be better at LG, but he sucks as a LT.

Liqourish wrote:^ the problem is LT is the most important position for an O-line and Jeff Backus doesn't play well there. Who knows if he'd be better at LG, but he sucks as a LT.

The draft could (could) fall just right. This is all hypothetical but has some basis:
Say the Rams take Bradford #1. The Lions deal #2 to KC for #5 and Dorsey. KC takes Suh at 2, Tampa takes McCoy at 3. If the Skins take Clausen at 4, that leaves Okung at #5. Skins take Okung, then the Lions get Anthony Davis or, if they go D, Brandon Graham or Derrick Morgan or even Joe Haden.

Okung at LT, slide Backus inside to LG, milk another solid season from Raiola, and the left side of the line becomes a real asset. I'm not as high on Davis because too many people that I know that know him well think he's never going to want it bad enough. Last year I got into a bit of a snit with a Rutgers message board because I questioned Kenny Britt's character. I wound up staying in close communication with a couple of those guys and they both say the same thing, "He'll be great if he wants to be, but once he gets paid he won't need to be". That scares me even though I love his potential.

#2 for #5 and Dorsey would be a great trade!

Wouldn't #5 be way to high for Graham? If we get #5, Okung, Haden, or Berry need to be the pick - or we could trade down again.....

If we trade down again, assuming we get a couple 1st's, we could target Iutupi and Graham or Iutupi and whoever....

Icness - The problem I have with that theory is... Backus has NEVER ONCE played guard in his entire career. He could be a disaster. When Backus was in college, he was one of the best. Look at who his guard was though. Steve Hutchinson (One of the greatest guards in college football history, and NFL). Now look at who Backus has played with in the NFL next to him................................. Besides this year and last year, there has been way too many short term LG's that I can't even remember any names. Give him a legit LG and see how good he is before you put a stake in his heart. I mean, name one LT in the NFL that is a pro bowl caliber LT that has a crappy LG next to him.

Piston Pete - I agree. The pick has to be Berry or Haden or even trade down more.

Icness wrote:

Liqourish wrote:^ the problem is LT is the most important position for an O-line and Jeff Backus doesn't play well there. Who knows if he'd be better at LG, but he sucks as a LT.

The draft could (could) fall just right. This is all hypothetical but has some basis:
Say the Rams take Bradford #1. The Lions deal #2 to KC for #5 and Dorsey. KC takes Suh at 2, Tampa takes McCoy at 3. If the Skins take Clausen at 4, that leaves Okung at #5. Skins take Okung, then the Lions get Anthony Davis or, if they go D, Brandon Graham or Derrick Morgan or even Joe Haden.

Okung at LT, slide Backus inside to LG, milk another solid season from Raiola, and the left side of the line becomes a real asset. I'm not as high on Davis because too many people that I know that know him well think he's never going to want it bad enough. Last year I got into a bit of a snit with a Rutgers message board because I questioned Kenny Britt's character. I wound up staying in close communication with a couple of those guys and they both say the same thing, "He'll be great if he wants to be, but once he gets paid he won't need to be". That scares me even though I love his potential.

Umm sorry but I am going to have to disagree slightly with your analysis of the draft falling just right. Reports are that TB wants Suh badly, and if it's true they are offering a decent package to ST. Louis, well they practically should be willing to pay us even more for our pick. If Suh is what they want, then it's a better value to trade for him at 2, than to trade for him at 1. So if the premise is "the draft falling just right" then there's no reason we can't trade down 1 spot to TB so they can get Suh and we could get something very good in return for 1 drop down due to the unusual nature of happening to have the clear cut #1 player from TB's perspective. Then we can trade down again with KC if you want, cause they would want Okung if they traded up. It doesn't make any sense to discount the value of a very realistic 1 spot dropdown that is already lined up well. So that's what happens if the draft falls just right. You have to cover all the steps, if you only cover 90% of the angles of a story, then you won't write a good story, just my constructive opinion that's all.

TSE--the moving down one spot only works if the Bucs are convinced the Lions want the same player they do, and that they aren't willing to "settle" for the other. I don't believe either is the case here.

Bartender--I worry about moving Backus inside too, but I think he'll be better than anyone else we've got there right now. I'd move him to the right side but that leaves Cherilus with no spot, which may be a good thing. Not sure if Mayhew will bite that bullet just yet but I doubt it.

PistonPete--My Lions dream draft would be to fall to #5 or #6 and take Joe Haden, who is the next Darrelle Revis. I like Berry but not that much. Haden is bigger, faster out of breaks, and has quicker feet in coverage.

I've been bouncing the concept of trading down off all sorts of people here, and every single person gives a resounding "No way in hell" will anyone trade up, not even Al Davis or Dan Snyder. There's some ulterior motive at play here; showing a willingness to take on much more upfront contract indicates better financial situations for the teams trading up, and that hurts the bargaining position of all of ownership.

I don't want to say it's a collusion or anything, but keep in mind the central argument that the teams are making is that the player costs are too high. By showing a desire to spend more, that weakens the argument. Teams like the Lions and Bucs--neither of whom are doing great financially--can cry how unfair it is to them that they keep getting saddled with this huge rookie contracts and that hurts their fiscal health, and that nobody will deal with them and that weakens the entire league. That is a very powerful argument and I know the league is beating the NFLPA over the head with it. So that makes this year even harder to find a taker for a top 10 pick that you might want to trade. Which really sucks for the Lions!

Suh is a very logical pick for the Lions, there's no harm to draft him and then deal him. If the Bucs don't want him that's the pick we should be making at 2 anyhow. A trade down is clearly our best option especially because I can see a string of potential trade downs if things go right. To do a Suh trade with TB is an elementary obvious strategy, that's like showing up on a putt putt course and you know which of the 3 holes connects to the right tube at the bottom. If you know what's up then use it to your advantage and you should sell that advantage for a profit. No reason to outthink this one and go for a lesser outcome that also is less likely.

Interesting though reading you post Iceness....

If the Lions decided they wanted a guy who's not pegged to go #2 (Haden, Okung, someone like that..), and they are not able to trrade down, what are the chances they pull a Vikings move and not pick - let the clock run out, and take their guy after a pick or two comes off the board. They get their guy, and it saves them money at the same time?

I know, unlikely - but reading your post made me think back to what the Vikes did previously....

This was discussed a lot last year with the first pick. The problem with forfeiting your pick and taking it a pick or two later is that it creates animosity with the agent/player. The agent will claim that the team still got the player they wanted at the #2 pick even if they got him officially with the #4 pick and will consequently demand #2 pick money. The Lions wouldn't have to relent, but a holdout would be extremely likely.

Yeah, it's not against the rules, but it's one of those gentleman's curtesies that you just don't do. It can come back to bite you in the negotiations.

I'm all for trying Backus inside, but then we'll need a legit LT or the problem remains. Hey Jeff, you think there are any legit LTs in the draft (besides Okung) that come in and help right away?

Bruce Campbell and Bryan Bulaga are the only two I can think of. I don't by into Anthony Davis being a good LT and Trent Williams is a RT