Thompson gaffes contribute to down year

[Rockmaninoff]

Sometimes I wonder if Thompson likes to draft guys with an injury history, with high picks, because it provides leverage in rookie contract negotiations. Is that plausible, or am I way outside the box like usual.

[ReasonablySober]

What about my 5 going forward points? You agree or not? Step up and put up your position in advance.

OK.

1. I am fine with giving Harrell more opportunity but we cannot count on him. We must have adequate personnel to get the job done without him regardless if he's healthy or not.

I'm fine counting on him if he's 100% healthy come draft day. Why wouldn't you be? It's not as if his past injuries have caused successive injuries. If he's healthy you assume he's your #3 DT.

2. We need an interior pass rusher BESIDES Jenkins.

No we don't. We would like another interior pass rusher, but we don't need one. There's a reason Harrell was taken and then told to gain weight. People like to assume that because Williams was let go that Harrell was the one to take his place in terms of production. Harrell's never been a pass rusher. Not at Tennesse, not now. He's a space eater, much like Pickett. Now, maybe a new DC comes in and needs his defensive tackles to be disruptive in the backfield. Guys that put pressure on the QB. That obviously wasn't a big priority with Sanders.

3. We cannot count on Jenkins to be effectiive pass rusher early in the season. Its going to take some time to recover from injury and get the rust off. I expect he'll be OK against run.

Why on Earth would we not be able to count on him? His surgery only required three months recovery. He isn't expected to miss any off season activities.

4. We can not count on "growth from within" on the DL b/c there is very little talent to develop.

I wouldn't say that. Harrell, Montgomery and Thompson are all young and need developing. That's not to say I wouldn't like to add another pass rusher and defensive tackle.

4a. I am fine with JThompson being counted on as #4 DE - NOT as #3 or as a pass rusher.

Why? He was a rookie last season and was improving every week he was on the field.

4b. We cannot count on Montgommery.
4c. We cannot count on Hunter.

I don't think anyone is penciling them in to start or play a lot of snaps. But what are you saying? They shouldn't even be considered for a backup role?

5. We must obtain AT LEAST 2 DL by any combination of FIRST day picks OR FA OR trade(s).

There's a reason why I've listed Maybin, Brown (2 DE's) and McCoy (DT) as my top three options for the draft. I've also raved about Peria Jerry and Ndamukong Suh, two other DTs. I also want a couple impact defensive lineman. But I'm also not blind to the fact that we need two offensive tackles, another CB to replace the vets down the line and depending on Bigby we may want to invest in a strong safety. As much as I want to see linemen, Patrick Chung of Oregon could be the next Bob Sanders.

I doubt a good player comes via free agency. The best ones are likely staying with their clubs and those that don't are on the market for a reason. Even if, say, Albert Haynesworth, Peppers and Suggs hit the market, what odds do you give Green Bay? This is a place that free agents want to leave, not flock to. It would be different if we were one of the only teams with money, but that's not the case. Even if it were, there are always ways to find cash. If Terrell Suggs wants to be in Arizona it doesn't matter what their cap situation looks like now (it isn't great), they'll find space and he'll be a Cardinal.

[eagle13]

What about my 5 going forward points? You agree or not? Step up and put up your position in advance.

OK.

1. I am fine with giving Harrell more opportunity but we cannot count on him. We must have adequate personnel to get the job done without him regardless if he's healthy or not.

I'm fine counting on him if he's 100% healthy come draft day. Why wouldn't you be? It's not as if his past injuries have caused successive injuries. If he's healthy you assume he's your #3 DT.

Your going to assume the health of a guy that was shelved THREE years in a row and count on him to be your #3 DT?

We would like another interior pass rusher, but we don't need one. That obviously wasn't a big priority with Sanders.

And Sanders sucked. And our pass rush sucked. And our record sucked.

Why on Earth would we not be able to count on him? His surgery only required three months recovery. He isn't expected to miss any off season activities.

He may well be great from the get go but many players take time.

eagle13 wrote:4b. We cannot count on Montgommery.
4c. We cannot count on Hunter.

I don't think anyone is penciling them in to start or play a lot of snaps. But what are you saying? They shouldn't even be considered for a backup role?

I'm saying they can't be counted on to be effective if they need to start if an injury happens again at DE. That's what real depth is. The Giants and titans both lost 2 starting DL for a time and had reserves who filled in very well. I am saying those backups would not be effective.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to add another pass rusher and defensive tackle.

Amen. We agree there.

Thanks for your response.

[El Duderino]

The bottom line for me is Thompson put together a defensive line that he thought was more talented than it actually was and he got burned because of it. Then Jenkins got hurt and the fact that there was no quality depth on the line exposed even further the overall lack of talent on the line.

I'm sure Thompson himself knows this was the case and will takes some steps to try and rectify this problem. Hopefully his evaluations of this unit of the team are better next year because pretty much everyone who watches enough football knows that the defensive line is the heart and soul of any 4-3 defense.

[ReasonablySober]

Again, four guys you expect to be in the rotation go down with season ending injuries. I'm just saying.

[El Duderino]

Again, four guys you expect to be in the rotation go down with season ending injuries. I'm just saying.

And i'm just saying the building of the defense by Thompson left the team periously thin everywhere except corner and thus when anyone got hurt on defense, there was nobody in place to help stop the bleeding.

If Rouse was better, losing Bigby would have hurt some, not end up being a disaster because nobody was there behind Collins/Bigby that could step in and play decently.

If Thompson had anybody on the defensive line besides Kampman/Jenkins who had even any pass rush ability, losing Jenkins would have only hurt that unit, not cripple it. For example, when the Giants lost Umenyiora for the season, their pass rush didn't completely collapse because they had quality depth on their DL and weren't counting on him to be both their only pass rusher at one DE spot along with being their only pass rushing threat at DT on passing downs.

If the LB group was as deep as it was claimed to be, they would have looked better before Barnett got hurt and would have had someone to step up when Barnett went down. Plus, Barnett did play 9 games before getting hurt.

As for Harrell, when i actually see him be productive on the field even if he can somehow manage to stay healthy, i'll agree he was a big loss. Besides that, i'm sure TT expected Jolly to step up and be more productive

I'm not trying to imply injuries didn't hurt the defense because obviously they did. That said, football is a violent sport and injuries are common. The Ravens have 16 guys on their IR, but are one game from the Super Bowl because Newsome has done such a great job acquiring talent. The Patriots won 11 games even though they were ravaged by injuries. Teams have to expect that there will be injuries, thus it's essential to have quality depth and is why teams draft players even at positions they look strong or pretty strong at so if/when injuries, age, decline, or less than expected development of a player does strike, a talented young player can step in to fill the void reasonably well or a quality vet can. Teams with quality depth can survive injuries without a unit collapsing, the Packers defense couldn't. Because Ted has done a better job adding talent/depth to the offense, i'm quite confident that unit could have survived injuries much better.