OT: Chris Henry Dies

[humanrefutation]

You know, I read through your whole post hoping you would address my point, but you unfortunately did not.

The simple point is...you have no evidence stating that he was NOT turning his life around, even though the strong majority of evidence points to the fact he was doing so. I'm not here to say he wasn't a knucklehead at one point, I'm saying that his actions over the last few months seem to have shown a distinct desire to get back on the right path. I, for one, believe that people CAN turn their lives around, and that they SHOULD be forgiven for their past indiscretions if they've been punished for them. You apparently disagree.

I'm not interested in getting into a debate in how we treat dead celebrities...I have my own beefs on this front. You can cite second-rate movies about great rappers or cite the MJ situation...but that doesn't change the fact that we all are a part of that problem. You can't watch hours upon hours of sportscenter, buy the jerseys, write on the forums and message boards, go to the games, buy the video games, or whatever you do, and then complain and be shocked when a death of an athlete you helped prop up is covered extensively on ESPN.

I mean, a good WR who had a well-chronicled troubled history, one who was given a last chance to play again and was apparently turning it around, died prematurely. In the middle of a season. When his team was making a playoff run. This seems to be the kind've story that you have to EXPECT that ESPN is going to cover extensively.

They tell us he turned his life around even though his death provides some pretty stark contradictory evidence, but somehow, for acknowledging this, I am an insensitive jerk.

See...this is where you're not getting it. You're jumping the gun considerably. I'm a law student. If there's one thing I've been constantly reminded of, its that you can't make inferences when inferences aren't there to make. You're assuming that his jumping-in-the-back-of-a-truck incident is representative of something nefarious, illegal, or somehow horrible.

Was it stupid? Yeah. But he wasn't chasing after a bookie. Or a thug. He was chasing after his fiancee. I've known people who have done dumber things when they're trying to win back the affection of their spouse/partner/beau. I don't see how you can make the connection that because he jumped in the back of a truck, he obviously hasn't turned it around or is at least trying to do so. That's just not making sense.

[LarryHarris]

You know, I read through your whole post hoping you would address my point, but you unfortunately did not.

The simple point is...you have no evidence stating that he was NOT turning his life around, even though the strong majority of evidence points to the fact he was doing so. I'm not here to say he wasn't a knucklehead at one point, I'm saying that his actions over the last few months seem to have shown a distinct desire to get back on the right path. I, for one, believe that people CAN turn their lives around, and that they SHOULD be forgiven for their past indiscretions if they've been punished for them. You apparently disagree.

The "evidence" you are going by that he was turning his life around were media accounts. You apparently don't like me using other situations to explain my thoughts on this one, but I am going to again. I was just watching the '30 for 30' Len Bias documentary. Several days before his death (which was brought on by cocaine use), he gave a television interview denying that he would even consider using drugs and almost scoffing at the notion. So often, the public perception of these people, and the reality of their lives couldn't be any more opposed. I just don't believe media accounts and teammate's impressions are strong enough to stand alone as the definitive word about what was going on in the life of this very troubled young man.

I guess my point is that you are, in my opinion, drinking the Kool-Aid because the Kool-Aid is all we are getting. I am, on the other hand, assuming that where there is smoke, there is fire.

I'm not interested in getting into a debate in how we treat dead celebrities...I have my own beefs on this front. You can cite second-rate movies about great rappers or cite the MJ situation...but that doesn't change the fact that we all are a part of that problem. You can't watch hours upon hours of sportscenter, buy the jerseys, write on the forums and message boards, go to the games, buy the video games, or whatever you do, and then complain and be shocked when a death of an athlete you helped prop up is covered extensively on ESPN.

I mean, a good WR who had a well-chronicled troubled history, one who was given a last chance to play again and was apparently turning it around, died prematurely. In the middle of a season. When his team was making a playoff run. This seems to be the kind've story that you have to EXPECT that ESPN is going to cover extensively.

I never had an explicit problem with them covering it, my issue stemmed more from how they were covering it. They were buying the story that he had turned his life around, even though his death provided evidence the contrary... evidence that they seemed all too willing to gloss over.

This is because it seems that the media needs wrap a little bow around everyone famous person's life once they die. "Yes, they died, but the didn't die in vain, they died fighting the good fight." I just think that things like this dumb down society. Why can we not acknowledge that Henry was obviously still having issues... he yelled that he was going to jump from the truck and kill himself, he jumped in the truck in the first place, etc...

See...this is where you're not getting it. You're jumping the gun considerably. I'm a law student. If there's one thing I've been constantly reminded of, its that you can't make inferences when inferences aren't there to make. You're assuming that his jumping-in-the-back-of-a-truck incident is representative of something nefarious, illegal, or somehow horrible.

Was it stupid? Yeah. But he wasn't chasing after a bookie. Or a thug. He was chasing after his fiancee. I've known people who have done dumber things when they're trying to win back the affection of their spouse/partner/beau. I don't see how you can make the connection that because he jumped in the back of a truck, he obviously hasn't turned it around or is at least trying to do so. That's just not making sense.

I am not engaging in a discussion about the litigious aspect of what happened here, so you cannot hold my argument to the same standard as would be in a court of law. This is the court of public opinion we are talking about here.

The person that everyone wanted Henry to be isn't who he was. That was probably actually very difficult for him to deal with while he was alive, and it continues to be true in his death. My problem with this situation is it is that he is being treated more like a heroic martyr than a cautionary tale.

[humanrefutation]

The "evidence" you are going by that he was turning his life around were media accounts. You apparently don't like me using other situations to explain my thoughts on this one, but I am going to again. I was just watching the '30 for 30' Len Bias documentary. Several days before his death (which was brought on by cocaine use), he gave a television interview denying that he would even consider using drugs and almost scoffing at the notion. So often, the public perception of these people, and the reality of their lives couldn't be any more opposed. I just don't believe media accounts and teammate's impressions are strong enough to stand alone as the definitive word about what was going on in the life of this very troubled young man.

I guess my point is that you are, in my opinion, drinking the Kool-Aid because the Kool-Aid is all we are getting. I am, on the other hand, assuming that where there is smoke, there is fire.

Still, you're still not getting it. You have not pointed to a distinct piece of evidence as a counter to the media/teammate/coaches/owners perceptions of Henry. Suppose we had a teammate come out and say "you know, Henry never got it. He was still a knucklehead" or we had a reporter give out an anonymous source state that "Henry was constantly using cocaine" or something to that effect, then I could go ahead and analyze both sources of information, and I would likely be inclined to agree with you. But it isn't there. You can't rely on an inference from evidence which doesn't exist or hasn't surfaced.

I mean, I know it's easier to paint the guy as someone who just never got his act together, or as a knucklehead who was constantly spiraling out of control. But, objectively speaking, the only think Henry was guilty of during this past season was being stupid/emotionally-driven/reckless enough to jump in the back of a pickup truck and argue with his fiancee (about what, we don't know). That isn't a horrible thing. It certainly isn't on par with the illegal and stupid things he did before. Putting them in the same category, or looking for smoke when smoke isn't there, is worse, IMO, than taking the evidence on face value when there is nothing out there contradicting it.

I never had an explicit problem with them covering it, my issue stemmed more from how they were covering it. They were buying the story that he had turned his life around, even though his death provided evidence the contrary... evidence that they seemed all too willing to gloss over.

This is because it seems that the media needs wrap a little bow around everyone famous person's life once they die. "Yes, they died, but the didn't die in vain, they died fighting the good fight." I just think that things like this dumb down society. Why can we not acknowledge that Henry was obviously still having issues... he yelled that he was going to jump from the truck and kill himself, he jumped in the truck in the first place, etc...

I generally agree on that front. But, at the same time, the guy is DEAD. It's a story they need to cover. I hardly believe they lionized the guy...they moreso pointed to the fact that it was a very sad story. They hammered the fact that he was troubled, but focused on how he was turning it around (well, because, of course, that's what his teammates, friends, coaches, family members, and anyone with a remotely credible opinion had been saying for the months leading up to and after his death). I don't see a problem with it.

And if he was threatening to kill himself (which I think that has been debunked...but not sure), I don't see how that as evidence that he is on the same nefarious path, but rather, that he might have some serious psychological issues. That's not his fault, and, is in my opinion, even sadder.

I am not engaging in a discussion about the litigious aspect of what happened here, so you cannot hold my argument to the same standard as would be in a court of law. This is the court of public opinion we are talking about here.

I think it's hardly a litigious standard to hold someone to backing their inferences with an ounce of credible evidence. That's called reasoned, logical debate. But, what more should I expect from a message board?

I mean, you want to rely on the same court of public opinion that you've been bashing upon?

I'm sorry buddy, but if you think that relying on the court of public opinion is a reasonable, credible, or acceptable basis for backing your arguments on the life of an individual, then we have a larger disagreement.

The person that everyone wanted Henry to be isn't who he was. That was probably actually very difficult for him to deal with while he was alive, and it continues to be true in his death. My problem with this situation is it is that he is being treated more like a heroic martyr than a cautionary tale.

I don't think he was treated as a heroic martyr, but rather a sad case of a guy with a ton of talent who squandered it away for years, finally began to get his act together, and died prematurely in a horrific accident. I think that's a reasonable presentation of his death.