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3/23 Update: OT Rule For Playoffs Passes

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Re: Overtime Rule Change Proposal 

Post#21 » by El Duderino » Tue Mar 2, 2010 11:02 pm

chuckleslove wrote:
El Duderino wrote:My idea that i thought of awhile ago is if your team wins the coin toss and you want the ball, there is no kick off. Instead you take over at your 15 yard line. That way,you have to move the ball at least 50 yards to get to the 35 and line up for a 52 yard FG. Plus, if you get stopped on a three and out, the defensive team then gets rewarded by really good field position.



That is a very interesting idea. It would mean if a team was a dominant defense, like the Ravens when they won the super bowl, they would actually be encouraged to start on defense and play to their strength. I kind of like that proposal.

On the downside it eliminates special teams partially which is also a part of the game, more so for some teams than others, like when the Bears had Devin Hester returning kicks.



It's not eliminating special teams though because we are simply talking about getting rid of one kick off. One reason teams are able to kick a FG so often is most kickers can't kick it into the end zone. So even with just an average return, they are starting at the 25-35 yard line. So if say they start at the 28, they only need to go 37 yard to get in reasonable FG position. Making the offense start at the 15 would require them to get at least one more 1st down or 13 more yards. It also makes a 3 and out hurt more.
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Re: Overtime Rule Change Proposal 

Post#22 » by crkone » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:21 pm

mortreport

Filed to ESPN: Owners pass OT proposal by 28-4 vote. Post-season only but will be discussed in May to amend for reg. season.

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Re: Overtime Rule Change Proposal 

Post#23 » by chuckleslove » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:36 pm

I really hope they add it to the regular season as well. I don't like having different rules for the playoffs vs regular season.
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Re: 3/23 Update: OT Rule For Playoffs Passes 

Post#24 » by MickeyDavis » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:54 pm

Interesting scenerio I heard being talked about by one of the coaches. You win the toss, drive down field, it's 4th and 3 on the 28. Do you attempt the 45 yard field goal knowing if you make it the other team gets the ball or do you go for it on 4th down, knowing a touchdown wins the game for sure.
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Re: 3/23 Update: OT Rule For Playoffs Passes 

Post#25 » by crkone » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:14 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Interesting scenerio I heard being talked about by one of the coaches. You win the toss, drive down field, it's 4th and 3 on the 28. Do you attempt the 45 yard field goal knowing if you make it the other team gets the ball or do you go for it on 4th down, knowing a touchdown wins the game for sure.


Well are we talk about the Packers with Crosby or a team with a competent kicker?

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Re: 3/23 Update: OT Rule For Playoffs Passes 

Post#26 » by chuckleslove » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:57 pm

The other interesting scenario is an onside kick to start overtime. If you recover it then you score you win, the other team had their "possession" If they recover it and you hold them to a field goal you can still score a FG to tie or a TD to win, seems like a pretty good risk-reward ratio starting OT with an onside kick if you ask me.
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Re: 3/23 Update: OT Rule For Playoffs Passes 

Post#27 » by MickeyDavis » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:01 pm

Here are a whole bunch of OT situations and how they play out:

Two things to remember:

Possession means a player has complete control of the ball.

Opportunity to possess occurs only on kicking plays and refers mostly to a team who is about to receive a kick.

Here are the situations:

Team B receives the opening kickoff and returns it for a touchdown.
Ruling: Game over. Team B wins.

On the opening kickoff of overtime, Team A legally recovers the ball at
the A41.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the A41. A kickoff is considered an opportunity

to possess for the receiving team. Team B is considered to have had an

opportunity to possess the ball.

On the opening kickoff of overtime, Team A attempts an onside kick. A2
legally touches the ball at the A42 but muffs it and it is recovered by B1 at

the A43.

Ruling: B first-and-ten on the A43. Team A is not considered to have had

an opportunity to possess the ball.

Following a successful field goal on the opening possession of overtime,
Team A’s kickoff is muffed by B1 at the B35 and is recovered by A2.

Ruling : Game over. Team A wins. Team B had an opportunity to possess

the ball.

Team B drives down the field on the opening possession of overtime and
scores a touchdown.

Ruling : Game over. Team B wins.

Team B kicks a field goal on the opening possession of overtime.
Ruling : Three points for team B, but the game is not over. Team B must

kickoff to Team A. If Team A scores a touchdown or does not score the

game is over. If Team A scores a field goal the game continues under

sudden death.

Team A punts the ball and B3 muffs the punt at the B20. A6 recovers at
the B22.

Ruling: A first-and-ten on the B22. Team B had the opportunity to

possess the kick. Both teams have met the minimum requirements and the

first team to score wins.

Team A punts the ball and B3 returns it to the B30 where he is hit and
fumbles. A6 muffs the loose ball to the B28 where B5 recovers.

Ruling: B first-and-ten on the B28. Since the ball was loose from a

fumble as opposed to a kick, A is not considered to have had an

opportunity to possess the ball.

Fourth-and-five on the A45. Team A’s punt is blocked by B3 at the A35.
A2 picks up the loose ball at the A40 and runs to the 50 for a 1st down.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the 50. Since the punt did not cross the line of

scrimmage, team B is not considered to have had an opportunity to

possess the ball.

Fourth-and-five on the A45. Team A’s punt is blocked by B3 at the A35.
B4 attempts to pick up the loose ball at the A40 but muffs it to the A33

where it is recovered by A4 who runs to the B40 for a 1st down.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the B40. Since the punt did not cross the line of

scrimmage, team B is not considered to have had an opportunity to

possess the ball.

Fourth-and-five on the A45. Team A’s punt is blocked by B3 at the A35.
The ball hits the ground beyond the line at the B48 and bounces back to

the A43 where it is recovered by A4 who runs to the B40 for a 1st down.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the B40. Team B is not considered to have had

an opportunity to possess the ball because they did not touch the ball

beyond the line of scrimmage.

Fourth-and-five on the A45. Team A’s punt is blocked by B3 at the A35.
The ball bounces beyond the line to the A48, where B4 muffs the loose

ball to the A45 where it is recovered by A4.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the A45. By touching the punt beyond the line

of scrimmage, a new series is awarded to Team A. Since Team B had the

opportunity to legally possess the ball, both teams have met the minimum

requirements for possession.

Third-and-five on the A30. A2 takes a handoff and runs to the B35 where
he fumbles the ball. B2 recovers the ball and runs to the B40.

Ruling : B first-and-ten on the B40. Both teams have had an actual

possession and the first team to score wins.

Third-and-five on the A30. A2 takes a handoff and runs to the B35 where
he fumbles the ball. B2 recovers the ball and runs to the B40 where he is

hit and fumbles. A5 recovers at the B41.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the B41. Both teams have possessed the ball

and the first team to score wins.

Third-and-five on the A30. B2 intercepts a pass at the 50-yard line and
returns it for a touchdown.

Ruling : Game over. Team B wins. Each team has had an actual

possession.

Second-and-ten on the A30. A2 takes a handoff and runs to the A38 where
he fumbles the ball. B2 muffs the loose ball at the A35 and it recovered by

A5 at the A33.

Ruling : A third-and-seven on the A33. Since the ball was loose from a

fumble as opposed to a kick, B is not considered to have had an

opportunity to possess the ball.

Third-and-five on the A30. A1 drops back to pass and throws the ball from
the A23. The ball is tipped by defensive lineman B4 at the A25 and is

caught by tight end A3 at the A34. A3 runs to the A40 where he is tackled.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the A40. Touching of a pass by team B does

not constitute an opportunity to possess the ball.

Second-and-five on the A30. A1 drops back to pass and throws the ball
from the A23 toward receiver A2 at the B40. Cornerback B4 jumps up to

intercept the pass and lands with his left foot inbounds and his right foot

on the sideline.

Ruling: A third-and-five on the A30. An incomplete pass is not

considered an opportunity to possess.

Third-and-five on the A7. A1 is tackled in his own end zone for a safety.
Ruling: Game over, Team B wins. Both teams have met the minimum

requirements for possession.

Fourth-and-five on the B25. Team A’s field goal attempt is blocked by B3
at the line of scrimmage and lands at the B28 where it is recovered by A4

who runs to the B18 for a 1st down.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the B18. Since the kick did not cross the line of

scrimmage, team B is not considered to have had an opportunity to

possess the ball.

Fourth-and-five on the B25. Team A’s field goal attempt is blocked by B3
at the line of scrimmage. The ball hits the ground beyond the line at the

B22 and bounces back to the B28 where it is recovered by A4 who runs to

the B18 for a 1st down.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the B18. Team B is not considered to have had

an opportunity to possess the ball because they did not touch the ball

beyond the line of scrimmage.

Fourth-and-five on the B25. Team A’s field goal attempt is blocked by B3
at the line of scrimmage. The ball bounces beyond the line to the B20,

where B4 muffs the loose ball to the B18 where it is recovered by A4.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the B18. By touching the kick beyond the line

of scrimmage, a new series is awarded to Team A. Since Team B had the

opportunity to legally possess the ball, both teams have met the minimum

requirements for possession.
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Re: 3/23 Update: OT Rule For Playoffs Passes 

Post#28 » by bucks59 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:59 pm

I would personally just prefer an extra period (maybe 8 to 10 minutes), similar to what the NBA does. That seems to be the most equitable solution. Sure, there is an injury risk, but it would only be a couple of minutes longer than the current format and complete fairness is more important to me than an added risk of injury.
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Re: 3/23 Update: OT Rule For Playoffs Passes 

Post#29 » by DigitalFool » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:24 pm

chuckleslove wrote:The other interesting scenario is an onside kick to start overtime. If you recover it then you score you win, the other team had their "possession" If they recover it and you hold them to a field goal you can still score a FG to tie or a TD to win, seems like a pretty good risk-reward ratio starting OT with an onside kick if you ask me.


I thought of this too - I guess I don't understand that if you attempt an onside kick, why doesn't that count as an 'opportunity' to a possession if you don't recover to at least make teams think twice to an onside kick. Likewise, if the offense drives and scores a FG and you don't feel too confident in your defense, do an onside kick it and recover, you win. Obviously, you could put your D in a tougher position, but the risk/reward is at least worth pondering.
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Re: 3/23 Update: OT Rule For Playoffs Passes 

Post#30 » by chuckleslove » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:34 pm

I found it funny that the coaches are complaining about not being at the meeting. Someone said it perfectly in response to that:

"Welcome to the real world where upper management makes decisions without consulting with the rank and file"
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Re: 3/23 Update: OT Rule For Playoffs Passes 

Post#31 » by MickeyDavis » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:33 pm

Here are the two onside kick scenerios:

On the opening kickoff of overtime, Team A legally recovers the ball at
the A41.

Ruling : A first-and-ten on the A41. A kickoff is considered an opportunity

to possess for the receiving team. Team B is considered to have had an

opportunity to possess the ball.
_______________________________________________________________________

On the opening kickoff of overtime, Team A attempts an onside kick. A2
legally touches the ball at the A42 but muffs it and it is recovered by B1 at
the A43.

Ruling: B first-and-ten on the A43. Team A is not considered to have had

an opportunity to possess the ball
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