ESPN: Packers carry on despite injury woes

[ReasonablySober]

Do any of you honestly believe the Patriots aren't preparing solely for Rodgers? If McCarthy really is doing this out of some ridiculous bluff, and I highly doubt it, he's delusional.

[El Duderino]

I understand the point of view you have on this subject Dude and I see the perspective your taking and maybe it's a more logical one on ths surface.

But if you really look deeper,this team the last 3 years under MM has underachieved and has lost numerous games they should have won by beating themselves (Bears,Faclons) or they've laid an egg vs an inferior opponent (Lions,Redskins).

Another place we disagree is that the Packers have badly underachieved the last three years. The only year i thought we really underachieved was the 6-10 season. Some of the blame for that was on Ted. Crosby was a Thompson decision and Crosby choked on two game winning kicks. If i remember correctly, he also missed one or two other important kicks that weren't final second game winners and the defense choked away a few late leads. That said, McCarthy also deserved some blame for the countless late losses that season

Last year the offense finished 3rd in PPG and was absolutely on fire as the season was ending, it was mainly the defense getting shredded whenever the Packers faced a team with a good QB that was the team's downfall. A defense run entirely by Capers and defensive roster put together by Ted. Hell, in the playoff game vs Arizona, the offense run by McCarthy scored over 40 points and had five straight TD's, it was only the futility by the defense and Rodgers overthrowing a wide open Jennings for a TD in overtime that prevented us from advancing further. The two regular season losses to Minnesota which cost us home field/the division were more on Ted and Capers. The defense was terrible in both games and the offense suffered a lot via 14 sacks because TT left McCarthy without a competent backup LT and RT was a trainwreck because Babre may have been the worst RT in NFL history and like LT, there was no competent backup to turn to.

We've been over this year multiple times. I disagree with you on how talented the offense is minus Grant and Finley. Those two injuries IMO have left the Packers with arguably the worst stable of running backs and tight ends in the league, at least close to the worst. The OL is finesse and can't run block. While i'd say Capers has done a better job adjusting to injuries than McCarthy on offense, i do think the defense has more overall talent with Grant/Finley out.

Last Sunday was a prime example of where we simply disagree on to where blame should get put on certain players or the coach. You believe McCarthy didn't have the team ready to play. I just can't mainly blame McCarthy for Jennings dropping an easy TD, Quarless fumbling given his shaky hands all year, Flynn making a few costly terrible throws, or a non-physical group of offensive lineman getting manhandled all game. Plus, for all of the special teams woes under McCarthy, Ted certainly bears some of the blame. Thompson waived Jon Ryan and then took years in finding a competent replacement. Ted drafted Crosby and for all of his leg strength, Crosby has choked on multiple important FG's. In his whole time as GM, Ted hasn't acquired a good punt or kick returner. So while McCarthy deserves some blame i guess in special teams coaches hired, Thompson hasn't done those coaches many favors by saddling them with crappy punters, an inaccurate kicker, bad returners, and very young rosters. To blame all this stuff just on McCarthy i find to be scapegoating when there are multiple other valid reasons.

[paulpressey25]

I go back to where I was at the beginning of the season. Are TT and MM the new Carl Peterson and Marty Schottenheimer combo like with the Chiefs in the 90's?

I believe that KC had the best winning percentage of any team that decade. But Peterson and Schottenheimer always seemed to be good for some really obvious boneheaded moves or weaknesses that prevented the Chiefs from being the premier players in the league. Instead the Cowboys, Packers, Niners, insert other AFC team always, etc. were the bigger winners and the teams you remember from that decade.

You know with our duo you will get a very competitive team almost every year. But we also seem to have the same nagging weaknesses every year as well.

[Ayt]

If we are the Chiefs in your example, how are we sure they won't take the next step and how do we find people that are better? As Dude pointed out, there are some highly regarded people that took years to win a SB. Many great franchises only win one (Manning Colts), or don't win at all (Bills, Chiefs, etc.).

Sometimes it is obvious that people are in over their heads, but I certainly don't see that with our group. The last time we lost by more than one score was the disastrous TB, which actually sent us on a huge winning streak. As far as luck, think if our team had the health and breaks the Bears have gotten this year.

It is hard for me to see how anyone could honestly think we wouldn't have or be battling for the best record in the NFC if we had better luck with injuries. We aren't perfect, but no team in the NFL is. When healthy, we are certainly good enough win it all.

[emunney]

What would be the advantage in preparing for Flynn? It's not like he's got some peculiar facet to his game that Rodgers doesn't have. Or what am I missing?

[paulpressey25]

If we are the Chiefs in your example, how are we sure they won't take the next step and how do we find people that are better?

I'm not advocating firing them. There is no good answer here. The odds would say that if you canned them, you won't find anyone who would do a better job.

I'm just pointing out that every year we have the same issues with TT and MM. Their individual weaknesses seem to stand out to the average fan as did those of Peterson/Shottenheimer.

I think if the Packers finish 9-7 though I'd make the move on Mike McCarthy. I really like the guy, but he just doesn't seem to have the organizational skills that a Super Bowl team needs. The question is, could TT work with a big-name guy as his coach? I sense TT is pretty comfortable with MM on a number of levels.

[trwi7]

The question isn't could TT work with a big name guy as head coach. The question is would the big name head coach come to the Packers without complete organizational control?